TheShammySocialist Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Have you ever thought in the back of your head, "I swear this stuff makes me want to drink..."? Well, you're certainly not alone, here we are drawing to the close on month two of a war that basically involved almost two thirds of all countries in CNRP, and we haven't even been able to really push past the first blows in it. Having waded through the OOC war that engulfed things during the Korean and Cochin Wars, I thought things really couldn't get worse. I was proven wrong, and frankly, it saddens me to see things sink to this point for this community. This post is not about pointing fingers at one another, its something I've thought has needed to be said for some time now, and its something I think needs to be implanted in everyone's head here if it isn't already. We all have various reasons for being part of CNRP and choosing to roleplay a community of nations through text, like any game, this is a form of escapism, like any other game, it is supposed to be fun. I, for example, come home from a monotonous job, and typically don't like to do anything after work, so writing is how I separate myself from work, I enjoy it, it allows me to release emotions in a controlled manner. If there is one basic idea that could unite this community, its the fact that we should be here to spend a couple hours every day or week writing to decompress and/or enjoy ourselves. The recent war underlines a problem that has become all to prevalent in this community, and at the root of the problem, is that this game has become one that has become a personal contest between players. Its an atmosphere that has grown into a formidable edifice since the time I've been here, and it continues to grow farther. I'm sure that everyone will gladly point fingers at one person or a group of people, or another, in an attempt to defer blame, but c'mon, let's be serious, its more or less the community's fault as a whole. The community has become polarized in one direction or another, there feels like there is no middle ground because of this, those that try to maintain the middle ground get lambasted by either side for their efforts. Its not that there shouldn't be actions that are spurred on by personal grievances or what not, there will always be actions that are spurred on by that. We can't help it, we're humans, we're nowhere near perfect, but the problem is, where we draw the line here? We continue to throw continuity down the toilet as this war drags out, and the community is fractured along so many lines, it doesn't feel like it is actually functioning as a whole. Its like a tank going into battle with the engine running, but all the guns are broken or jammed. If there's anything I want you to take away from this post, its that this community, as a whole, needs to look at themselves in the mirror and ask where do we draw the line of personal feelings in something such as a roleplay community on the internet? Sure, we jostle with each other on #cnrp, sometimes it may get over the top, but many of us know its all fun and games. But, from what I've seen out of the time I've been here, is some serious and intense hateful feelings arise, and it never seems to go away, no one learns to be able to drop their transgressions. Everyone is guilty from time to time of it, but it just seems like it has become even more prevalent in recent time. Its just a recycling fountain of personal feelings becoming embroiled in a game where we're all trying to have fun, and, personally (yes, pun intended), I think its a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Enema Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I find the whole thing hilarious imo. I've been watching and wondering how long the people who make up CNRP are going to allow this to carry on and on. Some rpers just have too much to lose in terms of their pride and technological advantages to ever seriously consider just you.. know... working together to make a good story. THEY MUST WIN this game of risk that they play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidarr the Terrible Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 This war is embarrassing, seriously. The amount of arguing and insults being thrown around is just...makes me feel like I'm back in high school drama club alllll over again. I'm surprised bans haven't been thrown around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Enema Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) A ban has been threatened, Sarah did try to have a run at erasing EM entirely after ranting incoherently for half a page and showing no bias what so ever (sarcasm). The arguing serves a purpose that shows entrenchment ends up killing rp just as fast as all the other forms of cheating. I've said this before, privately, I don't hate anyone in CNRP. I like Triyun, he's fun to talk with about China. I like EM, he's fun to talk with as well. I do think the entire ooc hoo hah the two have should have been hammered out by those two alone months ago. What we've gotten instead is two entrenched powers battling it out over the validity of their star trek toys. EM, I've sided with you ever since they drug every single ally they have, but man.. some of your tech is insane. I gave up trying to follow it months ago. Not that Triyun or Cent are any better. I mean invisible airplanes with carbon nanoblahblahblah.. Star Trek crap. Trying to sneak an entire navy up on a heavily defended coast through civilian traffic.. I mean good lord. Entrenchment boys and girls.. take a note at most nations who move around on a regular basis.. you don't often see those nations defending redonkulous techogorp phaser cannons and invisible army fatigue pants. What we are seeing is the end result of just about every single role play in the history of role play. Back when neanderthals were etching their DnD character sheets on the cave walls with charocoal from the fire there were arguments like this: Thag: My fighter has a plus 8 club of unholy smiting. Grunt: My mage has a 10 foot wand of infinite bronto taming. Thag: I've been around longer.. My fighter has boots of rock smashing. Grunt: Well.. Well.. my fortitude is four bubbles higher and my hair looks better. Thag: WELL... yeah.. oHHHHH... My sword is shiny! Etc.. etc.. etc.. Entrenchment is a complete and utter killer and people aren't willing to concede anything to further a story out of a protectionist stance towards their most treasured of possesions. I'm not exempt from it, I mean I hid my favorite characters on the moon. Here is the thing, it's not going to get better. The arrogance, the risk style gaming that involves smashing nations to dominate a fake make believe world as a form of therapy due to a lack of power and control over real life issues, the unwillingness to work together, the smugness, and the pixel hogging is only going to remain the same. People are people and you can either do what makes you happy and hoard pixels and dream up redonkotech, or you can write stories, or you can roll noobs, or whatever it is that makes your dick hard. I'm telling you right now.. this problem is not going to get any better because it has always been there and will never go away. But you can ignore it and still have a great deal of fun. Edited January 27, 2013 by Tidy Bowl Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'll just say, as long as people cannot look at themselves objectively (whatever that is supposed to mean), things will go on and on. In the meantime, I'll just sit in my nice little corner. Do not disturb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'll just say, as long as people cannot look at themselves objectively (whatever that is supposed to mean), things will go on and on. In the meantime, I'll just sit in my nice little corner. Do not disturb. POMO REPRESENT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) I bet within two pages, we will have the same argument as always once more in this thread, despite the words of Shammy. I don't feel like lecturing anyone for whatever OOC issues they may have that they drag into the realm of IC. Maybe I'm not even in any position to do so, given my isolationism is expression of my OOC feelings and thoughts, that I do not want to interact with the world at large. I mean, I RP with Kankou (whenever she got time), with PD, because I know one of the least things he wants is war with me, with neighbours, to solidify my peace, with Horo, as character RP, and with most others, in non-canon universes. However, I do agree that problems are present, that things aren't getting better at all, that compared to when I joined, it went downhill, not up. And this isn't a problem of technology or the map or where people are on the map or how much or little land they hold. It is a problem of people using IC as a more sophisticated game of risk, as a way to punish others for OOC grievances, or just about everything other than what it could be, which I'd define as the fun and challenge of writing good stories and trying to make some decent political RP. I'm not pointing fingers here, because it'd just lead to pages of pointless accusing and excusing, blaming and framing, assuming a victim role and all other kinds of annoying crap that pops up whenever this comes up, and honestly, this is not something just one side (if we can talk about more than one side at all, given how anything apart from TSI is organised) is using. Most people actually are writing stories and trying to run their nations with nice internal political RP, and I've hardly ever seen a war (with the associated tons of OOC contest) stem from a story. However, the aforementioned issue will surface every now and then, leading to discussions like this one here. And then, if we don't want to lose, we either start throwing out technology, trying to somehow justify a counter, instead of admitting we messed up, or we go even further and use whatever OOC means we have, from having magical treaties to having friends (re)roll somewhere that's advantagous for us. Personally, I don't really care much about how this matter is settled. Faraway is an insignificant patch of land, that doesn't pose a threat to anyone. And even if I get rolled, well, wouldn't be the first time. Edited January 27, 2013 by Evangeline Anovilis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseida Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 It's funny that it only took a handful of posts for someone to claim the a GM is biased and then go on to personally insult everyone who wants to RP a specific way. It's this entire RP that's personal, not just this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShammySocialist Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) It's funny that it only took a handful of posts for someone to claim the a GM is biased and then go on to personally insult everyone who wants to RP a specific way. It's this entire RP that's personal, not just this war. The war only highlights how personal CNRP has become, its a high-water mark, if you will. A high water mark that seemingly gets higher. Edited January 27, 2013 by TheShammySocialist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I don't get why people still think that any war/story/event in CNRP is not going to be personal. We all put time and effort into our nations and stories and anything that interferes or threatens them will bring up some very hard feelings in people involved. What I think we need to do is except the fact that CNRP is and will always be personal and instead of getting angry or annoyed at each other when problems and issues arise should instead work at finding out exactly what the issues are and together as not just those involved but as a community work towards solving them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserMelech Mikhail Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I don't get why people still think that any war/story/event in CNRP is not going to be personal. We all put time and effort into our nations and stories and anything that interferes or threatens them will bring up some very hard feelings in people involved. What I think we need to do is except the fact that CNRP is and will always be personal and instead of getting angry or annoyed at each other when problems and issues arise should instead work at finding out exactly what the issues are and together as not just those involved but as a community work towards solving them. The issues are clear, two people want to win, only one person can. If the stakes weren't so unbelievably high, where your nation is automatically wiped if you lose, then maybe more people wouldn't mind losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) The issues are clear, two people want to win, only one person can. If the stakes weren't so unbelievably high, where your nation is automatically wiped if you lose, then maybe more people wouldn't mind losing. Indeed Melech the consequences of losing are indeed dire but we all knew this when we joined CNRP. People need to accept this fact and just give it their best. If you lose but gave a good fight then that is the best they could hope for. Then again I wonder if anyone has really been bothered to ask if they can keep their nation just accept a number of changes have to be made to keep it. Take EM's war with Triyun. Has either side thought about seeing whether this war can be solved without the total annihilation of EM's nation? Could EM not keep his nation if he made a different government take over? Edited January 27, 2013 by Kevin Kingswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) I was trying to convey the point about mercy here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/114792-tech/page-8#entry3080402 This was the response: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/114792-tech/page-8#entry3080770 The main point that I took was this: I will never make a deal with your side Triyun. A light loss or cost-free peace will not be sought by myself, since it simply is not worth it. If I need to restate my point, its that, I think that if one is winning a war one shouldn't be expected to give mercy, if the guy you're hitting is forecasting their just going to turn around and hit you as soon as they recover. But you should give the other guy mercy if they bury the grudge. The response was that. I'm at a loss what to say other than if EM wants to talk about a political solution he can. What I read that post is is that he wants a total war of annihilation and thinks I've lied about everything I've said. There isn't much I can do there other than get annoyed. Not to mention this is more Cent's war than mine. However if he wants to talk he can always query. Edited January 27, 2013 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I was trying to convey the point about mercy here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/114792-tech/page-8#entry3080402 This was the response: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/114792-tech/page-8#entry3080770 The main point that I took was this: If I need to restate my point, its that, I think that if one is winning a war one shouldn't be expected to give mercy, if the guy you're hitting is forecasting their just going to turn around and hit you as soon as they recover. But you should give the other guy mercy if they bury the grudge. The response was that. I'm at a loss what to say other than if EM wants to talk about a political solution he can. What I read that post is is that he wants a total war of annihilation and thinks I've lied about everything I've said. There isn't much I can do there other than get annoyed. Not to mention this is more Cent's war than mine. However if he wants to talk he can always query. All right yeah looking at that it does indeed seem as if EM wants a war of total annihilation, at least going from what I have read, and if that is the way the war is going to have to go then so be it I guess. To me it seems that the next step is to look at each point that is holding up the war at current and work towards resolving them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Realistically not that many wars lead to enforced destruction of a nation. Often people quit before it even comes to surrender talks however. Take for example the war against Mogar, early on he was offered an agreement where he needed to give up some things and then could continue on. He refused and later on just left. Another example is Eva, she stayed in France and requested peace terms, while I admit in retrospect those terms were excessively oppressive they did allow her to obtain peace. Often we are willing to come to an agreement but we can't be expected to offer it to them. If someone wants peace it is their responsibility to start negotiations, not that of the (often) victorious party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac MatthewII Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Good OP, this needed to be said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsage Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 There's no way to fix the current situation. Nice of you to broach it though, Shammy. Having someone calling against it might delay the progression of things for a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corin Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I want to drink for an array of reasons... This one's just another. <_< Besides that, good words you have there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Enema Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Didn't take long before the biggies started the spin again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) I'm not saying I will not seek peace with this war. If the war carries out with less than total destruction against me, then it does so. What I alluded to in the snippet Triyun quoted (cmon, there were much better things to quote in that wall 'o text, by the way) was that I would not seek to work out a purely OOC plea bargain like the one Cent did during the Hello Nod war. Whatever happens IC, happens IC - I won't quit, or reroll. I already stated what I meant by tagging the war as setting an example. I want to show everyone that you don't need to reroll or feel helpless once the bandwagon rolls over your foot. Once initial arguments have been settled and the war progresses, I will be able to show that. I just won't be responding to OOC requests to make me make the war go a certain way unless its by neutral GM or moderator order. That's what I meant. I haven't alluded to myself rerolling and attacking Triyun again and again. In fact, I've done quite the contrary, denouncing any intent or desire to interact with him as possible and continuing my present OOC decision regardless of the status of Aeon, Nod, or East Africa. As for what Shammy said, he's right. I won't try to lay blame on anyone, I just won't accept all the fault for it. It's personal and on purpose ladies and gents. Edited January 30, 2013 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidarr the Terrible Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'm not saying I will not seek peace with this war. If the war carries out with less than total destruction against me, then it does so. What I alluded to in the snippet Triyun quoted (cmon, there were much better things to quote in that wall 'o text, by the way) was that I would not seek to work out a purely OOC plea bargain like the one Cent did during the Hello Nod war. Whatever happens IC, happens IC - I won't quit, or reroll. I already stated what I meant by tagging the war as setting an example. I want to show everyone that you don't need to reroll or feel helpless once the bandwagon rolls over your foot. Once initial arguments have been settled and the war progresses, I will be able to show that. I just won't be responding to OOC requests to make me make the war go a certain way unless its by neutral GM or moderator order. That's what I meant. I haven't alluded to myself rerolling and attacking Triyun again and again. In fact, I've done quite the contrary, denouncing any intent or desire to interact with him as possible and continuing my present OOC decision regardless of the status of Aeon, Nod, or East Africa. As for what Shammy said, he's right. I won't try to lay blame on anyone, I just won't accept all the fault for it. It's personal and on purpose ladies and gents. A true freedom fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zephyr Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) I have taken a few drinks for this war. Oh the wasted nights slaving over a hot wall o text only for it to be wasted by a cheap move >.>! Maybe if surrender terms weren't usually you nations gets destroyed things would get better (doubtful). I mean, countries fight over territory for years without really gaining anything. Theoretically EM can drag this war on for months and months more by himself! In real life this would be exceedingly expensive for both sides. Hell the US has nearly driven itself bankrupt just fighting the equivalent of a 0-500 tech nation here. Granted there are other expenses that make up much more than the cost of war that the US has had to worry about, but a nation like Aeon or Tianxia would have similar expenses as those. (quite frankly Aeon would probably be bankrupt after the war if it survived considering the entire economy of Africa just collapsed with 60% of its nations, not to mention a war is being fought across the continent). But that's a little off topic I guess. There are a number of things I've thought about as solutions to wars being OOC fests. TBM mentioned D&D where fighting is determined by rolls of the dice. Yea you can make your characters be stupidly powerful if the GM allows it, but it all comes down to a roll of the dice. Which might be nice for CNRP. I mean it really would be risk then, and holy crap the amount of things you could request rolls for is huge, but if it helps take some of the personal shit out of it then I'd be for it. I mean shammy is right, it really comes down to the individuals to realize they're taking it too personally and take a step back. 'Check yourself before you wreck yourself' if you will. Everyone is guilty of it at some point, I am no exception. Maybe we should make a sticky similar to the respect one that was in the IC forum. I'm still for having the majority of players take a break as well. Taking some time off CNRP has done wonders for my complexion. Did you know that there's a sun outside!? Who would've thought! Edited January 30, 2013 by Lord Zephyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 It's not personal, Shammy. It's just business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShammySocialist Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 It's not personal, Shammy. It's just business. You know what happens to people that say this? DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENS!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zephyr Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 justinian better hope his crew doesn't suck as much as that guys crew did. Not even firing a single shot :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.