Imperial Decree

[Daimos]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1357830584' post='3073889']
So what you're saying is that NSO couldn't manage us on their own? Despite claims they could at the beginning?
[/quote]

[b]Not at all, I am saying NPO has the right to help an ally. Did NSO ask for help? I do not know.[/b]

[b]Kaskus is willing to accept aid to a non treaty alliance. Why can’t NSO have the right to accept NPO’s help? [/b]

[b]Any sovereign alliance can do whatever the heck they want but do not complain if someone else disagrees with you and does something about it.[/b]

[Horo the Wise Wolf]

Wars are fought in the upper tier.

Oh wait - both sides need an upper tier, don't they?

[Rayvon]

[quote]02:41 coekrix[NEW||MoFA] we have to make sure our allies that doesn't willing destroyed is safe
02:42 Razorade[K] NEW coming in makes BFF have to DoW on the same day
02:42 coekrix[NEW||MoFA] i don't want to force BFF to do that
02:42 coekrix[NEW||MoFA] it's okay if they don't wanna get destroyed[/quote]


It's a good thing NEW is worried about their allies, and not the alliance they just threw further under the bus.


Not every situation is black and white. Kaskus did everything to provoke a war, ignored every avenue of accepted protocol. NEW, aiding an alliance at war whom they do not share a treaty with, are also throwing away these accepted protocols.

Rather than spin this war further, NPO has come to our side to keep further involvement on the side of Kaskus out. As it's become generally accepted, and painfully obvious, that the only way to put these Indo's to bed is to kill them with fire. NEW came along and threw more wood on that fire as we battle to extinguish it, so we called in a second pumper truck to contain the spread. If they want to yet again try and and stoke the flames, they'll get burned. Otherwise, the main fire will be focused on and stomped out.

NEW was very aware of exactly what they were doing, and very aware that it was an act of war. I talked to Vibi only a couple hours after the fact. Those of you !@#$%*ing that NEW should have been the hit target, I bet are very many of the same people that !@#$%*ed that it should be ended with[i]out[/i] escalation, well this is our way of limiting that escalation also.

You're welcome, BFF.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Rayvon

[Oranges]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1357830890' post='3073892']
You contradict yourself when you say "We control our fate" and then you say "Because these people did this we hit these people" no matter who you hit it is because of NEW. The one and only reason you did not hit NEW is because you are worried about their allies. A bully is always big until the little guy has a chance of fighting back.

If you are drawing a line with other people to stop Kaskus getting aid why are you hitting Kaskus? To prove that you are willing to fight over it? If that is the case then you should prove it by hitting the person that sent the aid. Hitting the person that got the aid when they are already outnumbered just makes you look sad and the DoW look pathetic.

NEWs intention as stated by many of them was to help Kaskus, anybody that knows a thing about Kaskus knows NEW is nowhere far behind them. That is just how it works, they come from the same ideals and a lot of them the same country. They are not sparking a war, they are helping a buddy. You are doing the same but you are hiding behind this weak CB to do it and that is what makes you worse.
[/quote]

So if NEW wanted us to attack them, and we attacked them, we would somehow be controlling our own fate? Very good. A+ for logic there, buddy.

We've already covered why we're attacking Kaskus. Repeatedly. Your continued harping on about this point makes me question your ability to process information at a normal pace.

A weak CB, really? Aiding a nonallied alliance during a war, that's a weak CB? Alliances have gone to wars for less. How would you react if an alliance you were fighting against was suddenly aided by a nontreated alliance? Would you support their right to do so, as you are doing now? The actions of the New Pacific Order in this conflict have been legitimate, and justified. We have a valid [i]casus belli[/i]. NEW aiding Kaskus is an act of war and they don't even have a formal obligation to do so. If they wanted to avoid this situation, they could have spent fifteen minutes drawing up a treaty. But they didn't, and this is the result.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1357831096' post='3073894']
Are you mad? I only took offensive wars after NPO's declaration? You may want to check that fact out with NSO, I have declared on 6 nations and defended from 4 NSO before your alliance DoW. Sigh. You should check stuff out before stating stupid !@#$.
[/quote]

Sorry, I made the mistake of doing what you would do.

[The Pansy]

NSO got together with their allies, and worked out what response was best for all of them and their allies?

Say it aint so Rayvon

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357831503' post='3073900']
So if NEW wanted us to attack them, and we attacked them, we would somehow be controlling our own fate? Very good. A+ for logic there, buddy.

We've already covered why we're attacking Kaskus. Repeatedly. Your continued harping on about this point makes me question your ability to process information at a normal pace.

A weak CB, really? Aiding a nonallied alliance during a war, that's a weak CB? Alliances have gone to wars for less. How would you react if an alliance you were fighting against was suddenly aided by a nontreated alliance? Would you support their right to do so, as you are doing now? The actions of the New Pacific Order in this conflict have been legitimate, and justified. We have a valid [i]casus belli[/i]. NEW aiding Kaskus is an act of war and they don't even have a formal obligation to do so. If they wanted to avoid this situation, they could have spent fifteen minutes drawing up a treaty. But they didn't, and this is the result.



[b]Sorry,[/b] I made the mistake of doing what you would do.
[/quote]

It's okay, I'll accept your apology.

[Oranges]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1357831719' post='3073903']
[b]I[/b]t's o[b]k[/b]ay, [b]I[/b]'[b]ll[/b] accept [b]you[/b]r apology.
[/quote]

Now now, no need to get all worked up.

[Isaac MatthewII]

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357831503' post='3073900']
So if NEW wanted us to attack them, and we attacked them, we would somehow be controlling our own fate? Very good. A+ for logic there, buddy.
[/quote]

No you would not be controlling your own fate, see the contradicting factor is that you claim to control your fate in doing something as a result of another action. How is this so hard to see, is there any simpler way I can word it for you?

[quote]We've already covered why we're attacking Kaskus. Repeatedly. Your continued harping on about this point makes me question your ability to process information at a normal pace.[/quote]

You have repeatedly stated your reasoning yes, my point is that it is a sad way of doing business. You act as if you are controlling your own fate when you are not and further you act as if you are drawing a line by attacking Kaskus when you let NEW go free.

[quote]A weak CB, really? Aiding a nonallied alliance during a war, that's a weak CB? Alliances have gone to wars for less. How would you react if an alliance you were fighting against was suddenly aided by a nontreated alliance? Would you support their right to do so, as you are doing now? [/quote]

It is a weak CB because it is obviously not the true reason you are fighting as previously stated many times by a few people.
[quote]The actions of the New Pacific Order in this conflict have been legitimate, and justified. We have a valid [i]casus belli[/i]. NEW aiding Kaskus is an act of war and they don't even have a formal obligation to do so. If they wanted to avoid this situation, they could have spent fifteen minutes drawing up a treaty. But they didn't, and this is the result.[/quote]

Yes you idiot it is an act of war and you should have acted on it, but instead of hitting the aggressive party you hit Kaskus because NSOs war isn't going so well for them. All of that is perfectly fine as I said all is fair, but if you are going to go about doing that at least grow a pair and admit it both you and NSO.



[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1357831351' post='3073897']
Not at all, I am saying NPO has the right to help an ally. Did NSO ask for help? I do not know.
[/quote]

I would not be surprised if they asked for help. The help however isn't the issue, its the hiding behind the fact.

[quote]
Kaskus is willing to accept aid to a non treaty alliance. Why can’t NSO have the right to accept NPO’s help?
[/quote]

Yes, God forbid they accept aid in the middle of a war, those barbarians. NSO can get help from whoever they want, the fact that they are not man enough to admit it is why they look like fools right now.

[quote name='Anger' timestamp='1357830612' post='3073890']
Considering you had to aid Kaskus to keep them fighting because they were running out of cash, you just sound pretty dumb right about now.
[/quote]

I hope you aren't talking about NEW looking worse for helping Kaskus, if that is the case you sir look dumb. Kaskus is outnumbered, NSO just can't hold their own and they aren't man enough to admit it.

[cinduamato]

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357830780' post='3073891']

Anyway, please read the previous posts before posting. We've already covered all this.

[/quote]

of course you want people to forget the size of kaskus member are, compared to NSO+NPO members.
it is just too embarrassing for you to be mentioned, over and over again...

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1357832055' post='3073907']
No you would not be controlling your own fate, see the contradicting factor is that you claim to control your fate in doing something as a result of another action. How is this so hard to see, is there any simpler way I can word it for you?
[/quote]

To act or not to act is the control of one's fate. The other action is on it's own path, acting and not acting on it's own accord.

[Burnsey]

[quote name='cinduamato' timestamp='1357831241' post='3073896']
hope you are not being so naive
[/quote]
Don't worry, I'm not. Hope you are not being so dense.

Edit:

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1357832055' post='3073907']
I hope you aren't talking about NEW looking worse for helping Kaskus, if that is the case you sir look dumb. Kaskus is outnumbered, NSO just can't hold their own and they aren't man enough to admit it.
[/quote]

No, I'm not, read my post. I'm talking about NEW talking about NSO's inadequate warchests while Kaskus is in need of aid.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Anger

[suryanto tan]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1357831396' post='3073899']
It's a good thing NEW is worried about their allies, and not the alliance they just threw further under the bus.


Not every situation is black and white. Kaskus did everything to provoke a war, ignored every avenue of accepted protocol. NEW, aiding an alliance at war whom they do not share a treaty with, are also throwing away these accepted protocols.

Rather than spin this war further, NPO has come to our side to keep further involvement on the side of Kaskus out. As it's become generally accepted, and painfully obvious, that the only way to put these Indo's to bed is to kill them with fire. NEW came along and threw more wood on that fire as we battle to extinguish it, so we called in a second pumper truck to contain the spread. If they want to yet again try and and stoke the flames, they'll get burned. Otherwise, the main fire will be focused on and stomped out.

NEW was very aware of exactly what they were doing, and very aware that it was an act of war. I talked to Vibi only a couple hours after the fact. Those of you !@#$%*ing that NEW should have been the hit target, I bet are very many of the same people that !@#$%*ed that it should be ended with[i]out[/i] escalation, well this is our way of limiting that escalation also.

You're welcome, BFF.
[/quote]

Oh come on. You needed help and has been looking for every excuse to call in your allies.

Man to man here, no need to be ashamed, admit that you needed help in a war you promised that you would fight and would enjoy fighting on your own.

Do you want me to go to your DoW thread and quote your change of tone as it progressed?

Edited January 10, 2013 by suryanto tan

[Burnsey]

double post.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Anger

[Isaac MatthewII]

If you are going to help NSO in a war as their ally that is totally 100% fine, all is fair. If you are going to do that while trying to cover it up with this sad display then you make yourself out to be a fool. Kaskus loves war, I have spoken with a lot of their people andthey look forward to these numbers.

[KenMorningstar]

This looks realy familiar... hmm.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1357832490' post='3073916']
Kaskus loves war, I have spoken with a lot of their people andthey look forward to these numbers.
[/quote]

So then shut up and let them fight it.

[Oranges]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1357832055' post='3073907']
No you would not be controlling your own fate, see the contradicting factor is that you claim to control your fate in doing something as a result of another action. How is this so hard to see, is there any simpler way I can word it for you?

You have repeatedly stated your reasoning yes, my point is that it is a sad way of doing business. You act as if you are controlling your own fate when you are not and further you act as if you are drawing a line by attacking Kaskus when you let NEW go free.

It is a weak CB because it is obviously not the true reason you are fighting as previously stated many times by a few people.

Yes you idiot it is an act of war and you should have acted on it, but instead of hitting the aggressive party you hit Kaskus because NSOs war isn't going so well for them. All of that is perfectly fine as I said all is fair, but if you are going to go about doing that at least grow a pair and admit it both you and NSO.
[/quote]

You might want to show me in symbolic logic, because I'm still not getting it. So us doing anything at all, other than nothing, would be considered playing puppet to someone else's strings? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the NPO consciously chose the path that it did. NEW essentially invited us to attack them, and we did not. That's as simple as it gets. Otherwise, by your logic, any [i]casus foederis[/i] would be considered puppetry.

You've gone from refuting our claims to labelling them sad. Progress!

Hmm, yes, you have a point. Merely stating something repeatedly is obviously evidence that it is the truth. Because, of course, these people have a better understanding of the New Pacific Order than I would.

We've also covered why we're hitting Kaskus. In essence, both NEW and Kaskus gave us a valid [i]casus belli[/i] when the former sent aid to the latter. So can we please move on? If NSO's war wasn't go so well, why would the NPO wait for any additional damage to occur before stepping in? Why would we need to wait for some other reason instead of just invoking our treaty? There's holes big enough for Hiro's head to fly through in your reasoning here.

[quote name='cinduamato' timestamp='1357832131' post='3073908']
of course you want people to forget the size of kaskus member are, compared to NSO+NPO members.
it is just too embarrassing for you to be mentioned, over and over again...
[/quote]

No, rather, we've repeatedly stated the reasoning and thought process behind why the NPO has entered this conflict. Your continued persistence in drawing it back to some supposed "Kaskus is winning" is getting tiring. Especially since, as people have pointed out, the NSO is winning.

[suryanto tan]

[quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1357832562' post='3073917']
This looks realy familiar... hmm.
[/quote]

At least GOONS hold on long enough before calling in allies. And at least you were being frank about it.

NSO however trying to hide behind excuses instead of admitting the fact that they are desperately needed help in a war they promised they would fight fairly 1 on 1.

Edited January 10, 2013 by suryanto tan

[Isaac MatthewII]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1357832752' post='3073918']
So then shut up and let them fight it.
[/quote]

I am waiting for you and NPO to man up and admit the reason you got into the war. Hell GOONS looked better than this because they admitted it. When was the last war that NSO didn't call in allies matter of fact.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Isaac MatthewII

[Oranges]

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1357832352' post='3073913']
Oh come on. You needed help and has been looking for every excuse to call in your allies.

Man to man here, no need to be ashamed, admit that you needed help in a war you promised that you would fight and would enjoy fighting on your own.
[/quote]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't you turn around and accept aid from NEW? If, as according to you, taking aid from allies is a bad thing, why would you choose to give up the moral high ground by accepting aid from a nonally? I mean, honestly, how do you even rationalise this? How do you tell someone off for accepting aid then turn around and accept aid of your own?

Make no mistake, the reason the NPO is involved is because NEW decided to aid Kaskus. Not to speed up NSO's inevitable victory. If NEW had not aided Kaskus, we would not be in this conflict. The simple fact of the matter is, you took aid from NEW and now you're getting steamrolled for it. So quit going on about how NSO needed to call in its ally. If you had not done what you did, this ally would likely not be here. Your fault. Live with it.

[KenMorningstar]

Oranges Kaskus doesnt care if you join in. They are probably happier with new nations to grind. They have a certain lack of caring for their infra and tech that extends to just about everything and love to burn it all down,.

I can't wait for the next move.

[Hereno]

[quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1357833349' post='3073924']
Oranges Kaskus doesnt care if you join in. They are probably happier with new nations to grind. They have a certain lack of caring for their infra and tech that extends to just about everything and love to burn it all down,.

I can't wait for the next move.
[/quote]

For all the talk of Kaskus loving warfare, this thread sure is a massive whine-fest.

[cinduamato]

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357832757' post='3073919']

No, rather, we've repeatedly stated the reasoning and thought process behind why the NPO has entered this conflict. Your continued persistence in drawing it back to some supposed "Kaskus is winning" is getting tiring. Especially since, as people have pointed out, the NSO is winning.
[/quote]


if NSO is winning, why NPO's have to jump helping NSO attacking the micro kaskus....? it is really unnecessary, dont you think...?
if NSO is winning, Why dont you NPO's just sit tight and watch the fight...?
helping allies against 3 times smaller opponent..? yeah right... you are really a hero there...


I am not saying that kaskus is winning, they just outnumbered and. they are stand their ground

[Oranges]

[quote name='cinduamato' timestamp='1357833871' post='3073928']
if NSO is winning, why NPO's have to jump helping NSO attacking the micro kaskus....? it is really unnecessary, dont you think...?
if NSO is winning, Why dont you NPO's just sit tight and watch the fight...?
helping allies against 3 times smaller opponent..? yeah right... you are really a hero there...


I am not saying that kaskus is winning, they just outnumbered and. they are stand their ground
[/quote]

As I've said before, the intent of Pacifica's involvement is to limit the spread of conflict, and because our ally has been wronged.

If Kaskus is standing their ground, why would you need to aid them? Why would you aid them when you have no treaty, knowing that this would provoke some sort of response?

A wrong was committed when you aided Kaskus. We are here to see that that wrong is not repeated.

[Isaac MatthewII]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1357833802' post='3073927']
For all the talk of Kaskus loving warfare, this thread sure is a massive whine-fest.
[/quote]

Including you.