The dawn of the Iron Age

[Monster]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1325658868' post='2892101']
DT/ROK hitting R&R would have just resulted in FOK hitting them, effectively negating any assistance on R&R since I imagine FOK would be able to deal with them quite handily, and have served only to create animosity between MJ and PB. They got shafted to be sure, but there isn't an easy situation out unless MJ members went and ghosted ASG to help them out. Same thing happened to PC last war, the difference is simply that PC was able to demolish RoK.

EDIT: It would probably also help if LOSS didn't have half of its top 40 in PM. This is a war that ASG and LoSS should win
[/quote]

Yeah, that's probably an issue too. Agreed on that point. I don't think the ghosting would have a triggered an actual reaction if it just evened things up.

[Bob]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1325659169' post='2892106']

ASG has been !@#$ted on this entire war. First someone pre-empted their allies that weren't entering, their bloc mates refuse to come help them, then another of their allies changed sides, they try to call in a slight bit of relief in TSA and of course they're dog piled on while being cheered on by people supposedly on their "side". If I was them I'd be making a long hit list right now.[/quote]
Yes. Mjolnir clearly failed Asgaard in regards to their other allies, as their other allies have been fighting for so long...

[quote]
Of course, no one is going to come to their defense. No one wants to upset FOK or VE, they'd much rather taken an easier target, or they want to look cool and hit someone they had beef with in the past. This war absolutely disgusts me.
[/quote]
Its not like FOK is not going to attack DT/RoK. If we had attacked RnR, we wouldn't have actually attacked RnR, let's be real. We would have deployed minimally and waited for FOK to hit us, as it was inevitable.

If FOK attacks us, anyone who counters for us I would assume VE would counter given their stance on the war (not sure here). Thus, we have just put our allies into a terrible position, ourselves into a terrible position, in order to give Asg/LoSS zero help in what is relatively close to an even war.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Penlugue Solaris

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1325659371' post='2892111']
Yes. Mjolnir clearly failed Asgaard in regards to their other allies, as their other allies have been fighting for so long...[/quote]

At least TSA actually went in. You guys just ignored all the !@#$ and hit someone who had ALREADY SURRENDERED. God that's such a retarded move.


[quote]
Its not like FOK is not going to attack DT/RoK. If we had attacked RnR, we wouldn't have actually attacked RnR, let's be real. We would have deployed minimally and waited for FOK to hit us, as it was inevitable.

If FOK attacks us, anyone who counters for us I would assume VE would counter given their stance on the war (not sure here). Thus, we have just put our allies into a terrible position, ourselves into a terrible position, in order to give Asg/LoSS zero help in what is relatively close to an even war.
[/quote]

This is exactly what I just said. Everyone wants to tip toe around FOK and VE. For reals guys, everybody should have just grew a nutsack in the first place. Don't push for a war that's going to have bad consequences for you if you're not going to deal with them.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Omniscient1

[Monster]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1325659675' post='2892113']
At least TSA actually went in. You guys just ignored all the !@#$ and hit someone who had ALREADY SURRENDERED. God that's such a retarded move.




So you're not defending your ally, because you're afraid of FOK? I just said that.
[/quote]

It doesn't make sense for them to do it because it would have not helped Asgaard at all. It's basic strategy.

[Bob]

[quote]
So you're not defending your ally, because you're afraid of FOK? I just said that.
[/quote]
Let's put this more clearly for you. We wouldn't be defending our ally, we would be fighting FOK. That better?

The only point of a declaration of war on RnR would be to fight FOK, not to help Asgaard. I'm just going to keep stating it in slightly different ways until it becomes clear for you.

Btw, this assumes that FOK hits both DT/RoK for countering RnR. If FOK only hit one of us, there would be no way to get support for the one hit (as VE would counter whoever hits them I would assume, though I am not sure) so we would now have a Mjolnir alliance actually outgunned and outnumbered significantly. How has this improved the situation at all?

Edited January 4, 2012 by Penlugue Solaris

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1325659820' post='2892116']
Let's put this more clearly for you. We wouldn't be defending our ally, we would be fighting FOK. That better?

The only point of a declaration of war on RnR would be to fight FOK, not to help Asgaard. I'm just going to keep stating it in slightly different ways until it becomes clear for you.

Btw, this assumes that FOK hits both DT/RoK for countering RnR. If FOK only hit one of us, there would be no way to get support for the one hit (as VE would counter whoever hits them I would assume, though I am not sure) so we would now have a Mjolnir alliance actually outgunned and outnumbered significantly. How has this improved the situation at all?
[/quote]

VE aren't FOK's only allies, but yea it would not have resulted in much help for Asg.

[Bob]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1325660256' post='2892122']
VE aren't FOK's only allies, but yea it would not have resulted in much help for Asg.
[/quote]
Understood, I used you as an example because you are the obvious example to give since you clearly have sympathies for both sides.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Penlugue Solaris

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1325660402' post='2892123']
Understood, I used you as an example because you are the obvious example to give since you clearly have sympathies for both sides.
[/quote]

It wouldn't be about sympathy, it'd be about supporting PB at that point. But fair enough.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1325659723' post='2892114']
It doesn't make sense for them to do it because it would have not helped Asgaard at all. It's basic strategy.
[/quote]

Friends > Infra

Besides that, this is coalition warfare. There are several other alliances out there (yes mine included) that could very easily be put on RnR to help ASG. Some of whom FOK couldn't hit or would have a good fight (militarily and politically) if they hit them. Instead, we're tip toeing around trying not to upset alliance A or alliance B or trying to suck off alliance C....Seriously whoever is planning needs to grow up and fight. That's what wars are for, it's not for making nice to your enemies.

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1325659820' post='2892116']
Let's put this more clearly for you. We wouldn't be defending our ally, we would be fighting FOK. That better?

The only point of a declaration of war on RnR would be to fight FOK, not to help Asgaard. I'm just going to keep stating it in slightly different ways until it becomes clear for you.

Btw, this assumes that FOK hits both DT/RoK for countering RnR. If FOK only hit one of us, there would be no way to get support for the one hit (as VE would counter whoever hits them I would assume, though I am not sure) so we would now have a Mjolnir alliance actually outgunned and outnumbered significantly. How has this improved the situation at all?
[/quote]

I pray to god I'm never allied to your !@#$%* bloc then. If I need help and the odds, look bad you'll just stand back and say "well we really would be fighting X, not defending you, so no thanks!"

Edited January 4, 2012 by Omniscient1

[Monster]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1325660571' post='2892129']
Friends > Infra

Besides that, this is coalition warfare. There are several other alliances out there (yes mine included) that could very easily be put on RnR to help ASG. Some of whom FOK couldn't hit or would have a good fight (militarily and politically) if they hit them. Instead, we're tip toeing around trying not to upset alliance A or alliance B or trying to suck off alliance C....Seriously whoever is planning needs to grow up and fight. That's what wars are for, it's not for making nice to your enemies.



I pray to god I'm never allied to your !@#$%* bloc then. If I need help and the odds, look bad you'll just stand back and say "well we really would be fighting X not defending you so no thanks!"
[/quote]

Pretty much any bloc would do the same thing if they're on the winning side of a war and don't want it to get bad.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1325660673' post='2892131']
Pretty much any bloc would do the same thing if they're on the winning side of a war and don't want it to get bad.
[/quote]

I'd like to think all the rhetoric of CnG's wouldn't fall empty. Maybe it would though, I don't know.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1325556022' post='2891106']
You finally cracked the code. Finally got us. We used MJ's hatred of SF, MK's hatred of XX and NG's hatred of FARK against them so we could have our war with Polar. How in the world did you see how ruse? I thought we had surely framed Ardus as the architect of all of this instead of Yevgeni.

Edit: The majority of people in our coalition got to fight the wars they wanted or have certain desired outcomes happen. That isn't because of some master plan created by a handful of people but rather a group of alliances coming together to work on a plan that was mutually beneficial.

Until you can understand this simple concept you will continue to sprout moronic conspiracy theories. Your entire post can be flipped around to make it seem like a number of people masterminded this war. Non Grata used TOP, Mj and MK's dislike of certain alliances in order to fight FARK and cause general mayhem. Or MJ used Non Grata, MK and TOP's dislike of certain alliances to finally square their deal with Superfriends. Or TOP used Non Grata, MK and Mj so we could have our war against Polar.
[/quote]
Quoting this post because I agree with it 100%.

Trying to pin any one alliance or even block as the singular "dominant" alliance/block is an exercise in futility because no such thing exists.

Some alliances/blocks are obviously more well connected and powerful than others but among the victorious alliances, there are plenty of alliances and blocks that are relatively similar to each other in terms of power and influence.

To simply say that any one alliance or block "rules the world" is oversimplifying things. There are so many relatively independent power spheres that any action has to come from collective decisions and efforts.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1325660861' post='2892134']
I'd like to think all the rhetoric of CnG's wouldn't fall empty. Maybe it would though, I don't know.
[/quote]

Shouldn't you know?

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1325660571' post='2892129']
Friends > Infra

Besides that, this is coalition warfare. There are several other alliances out there (yes mine included) that could very easily be put on RnR to help ASG. Some of whom FOK couldn't hit or would have a good fight (militarily and politically) if they hit them. Instead, we're tip toeing around trying not to upset alliance A or alliance B or trying to suck off alliance C....Seriously whoever is planning needs to grow up and fight. That's what wars are for, it's not for making nice to your enemies. [/quote]
Our coalition needed to put enough NS on R&R to be able to crush R&R and FOK both (after FoK made it clear they'd support the R&R/SF/polar side)

Edited January 4, 2012 by Azaghul

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1325661100' post='2892140']
Our coalition needed to put enough NS on R&R to be able to crush R&R and FOK both (after FoK made it clear they'd support the R&R/SF/polar side)
[/quote]

FOK's only comment about the war was defending all of its allies that were attacked, as far as I know. That RnR happened to be the only one is not really their fault.

Regardless it wouldn't have mattered, if FOK needed help PB would have helped, through an aggression clause if needed.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1325661084' post='2892139']
Shouldn't you know?
[/quote]

I guess you never know exactly how you're going to react to something until it happens.

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1325661100' post='2892140']
Our coalition needed to put enough NS on R&R to be able to crush R&R and FOK both (after FoK made it clear they'd support the R&R/SF/polar side)
[/quote]

Yea I understand that, but are you saying that's impossible? If so someone may have jumped the gun on war.

[Bob]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1325660571' post='2892129']
I pray to god I'm never allied to your !@#$%* bloc then. If I need help and the odds, look bad you'll just stand back and say "well we really would be fighting X, not defending you, so no thanks!"
[/quote]
You clearly have little idea what is going on and your posts have shown that. There's a difference between a war your side is losing and a war your side is winning in how things play out. If you choose to stay away from us, that's your decision but I can't help but think you have the uncommon stance here.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Penlugue Solaris

[Azaghul]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1325661292' post='2892142']
FOK's only comment about the war was defending all of its allies that were attacked, as far as I know. That RnR happened to be the only one is not really their fault.
[/quote]
That basically only meant R&R, since R&R could take the obvious route of only hitting a smaller group of alliances that they couldn't lose against unless they were countered, and since R&R's side was going to lose anyway they could easily not counter any of FOK's allies. The fact that this would put them only in a position to help the polar side was easily predictable and probably the intended result of such a policy.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Azaghul

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1325661391' post='2892145']
You clearly have little idea what is going on and your posts have shown that. There's a difference between a war your side is losing and a war your side is winning in how things play out. That being said, Asg/LoSS aren't being rolled here. The middle tier blows for them, but they are not at a huge disadvantage here. Ffs, Asgaard is in a grand total of 23 wars.
[/quote]

Yea I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. Our coalition is just maxed out on NS to send anywhere else, you guys didn't bail on ASG to hit CSN, CSN hadn't already been hit, and we're not tip toeing around FOK and VE. You win Bob, I give up.

Anyway, it doesn't matter much what I say. I'm sure other people have noticed ASG become a friendly fire casualty in order to fill your blood lust to get SF. So I'll just leave it in the hands of those who actually matter.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Omniscient1

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1325661755' post='2892148']
That basically only meant R&R, since R&R could take the obvious route of only hitting a smaller group of alliances that they couldn't lose against unless they were countered, and since R&R's side was going to lose anyway they could easily not counter any of FOK's allies. The fact that this would put them only in a position to help the polar side was easily predictable and probably the intended result of such a policy.
[/quote]

Is it their fault that's the only alliance people would counter? All you're complaining about is that FOK honors its treaties.

[Bob]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1325661759' post='2892149']
Yea I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. Our coalition is just maxed out on NS to send anywhere else, you guys didn't bail on ASG to hit CSN, CSN hadn't already been hit, and we're not tip toeing around FOK and VE. You win Bob, I give up.
[/quote]
You still don't get it. No help to Asg would have come. Bottomline. You are arguing for FOK and VE (and PB, based off the comments of WC) to be attacked and for CSN not to be, not for Asg to be helped.


[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1325662208' post='2892155']
Amen, Rsox. That's a lot cooler than some retarded line about winter.
[/quote]
Hey guys! Look at me!

Edited January 4, 2012 by Penlugue Solaris

[rsoxbronco1]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1325660861' post='2892134']
I'd like to think all the rhetoric of CnG's wouldn't fall empty. [b]Maybe it would though[/b], I don't know.
[/quote]
C&G: Blood in, blood out.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1325662086' post='2892154']
C&G: Blood in, blood out.
[/quote]

Amen, Rsox. That's a lot cooler than some retarded line about winter.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Omniscient1

[Monster]

Remains to be tested.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1325662009' post='2892151']
Is it their fault that's the only alliance people would counter? All you're complaining about is that FOK honors its treaties.
[/quote]
It's no one's fault, it's just a fairly obvious and predictable result given the nature of the war where R&R was the only ally on the polar/loosing side. R&R could force their opponents to have R&R countered, FOK's other allies couldn't. So if there's fault to be had, it's that of whoever came up with that policy. None of FOK's allies were attacked in a way that would trigger mandatory defense, since all of them chained into the conflict.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Azaghul