The Overtime Accords

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1304687131' post='2707462']
In other words, you've got nothing.

The problem is that you keep trying create proof where it doesn't exist. The attack on NPO was always a judgment call. There's no proof that NPO was planning on doing anything.

A massive bloc of NS stays permanently locked together in treaty. When any portion of it is threatened, ghosts of 3-4 years ago are conjured. No, in your mind they are the bogeyman and they are that powerful. The problem is that now you're beating up an old man, not world champ. Until you see NPO for what it really is now, you'll keep going back there. If not in 6 months, then in a year. It's kinda sad really.

See above. No, there wasn't. Once again, I would have made that call to launch a preemptive strike. On the other hand, I wouldn't have come anywhere near this treaty with regard to terms. These terms blow, even though they could have actually been far worse. All you've done is forced the cowering old man to stand up and pull on his boxing gloves to fight because you weren't satisfied with the war. There's no honor in that and not particularly any sort of justification.
[/quote]
Hal, you're wasting your breath. Azaghul is a smart guy but he's spent this entire war making the most absurd claims about the war--saving the world, mythical rogues, SirPaul hurt our feelings--in a lame attempt to paint MK as hands-tied well-meaning conquerors with no choice, not content to only be absurd, he is also the only person in MK arguing these points while they have virtually disappeared from the forum as they march across the globe (taking another page from NPO's playbook) with the ones that remain posting completely opposite or incongruent reasonings from Azaghul. He either knows he's full of crap but he needs to reconcile the present with himself, or he's delusional. He's a cool old guy, but it's just been silly, if he believes his own crap he's the only one.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Schattenmann

[ControlVolume]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304689536' post='2707466']
Hal, you're wasting your breath. Azaghul is a smart guy but he's spent this entire war making the most absurd claims about the war--saving the world, mythical rogues, SirPaul hurt our feelings--in a lame attempt to paint MK as hands-tied well-meaning conquerors with no choice, not content to only be absurd, he is also the only person in MK arguing these points while they have virtually disappeared from the forum as they march across the globe (taking another page from NPO's playbook) with the ones that remain posting completely opposite or incongruent reasonings from Azaghul. He either knows he's full of crap but he needs to reconcile the present with himself, or he's delusional. He's a cool old guy, but it's just been silly, if he believes his own crap he's the only one.
[/quote]
This post has been posted by Schattenmann: Today, 06:45 AM

[Cataduanes]

^

Not quite sure what your trying to convey quoting Schatt...care to elaborate?

[Schattenmann]

Beats me. Doubtless it's clever.

[Ubermeir]

Welp, if this is the aggressive diatribe we see in defeat...thank admin they didn't win. The rules of NPO on Bob are diminished if not fully gone. Death to contrived cbs.
ODN got an apology, GOONS got some reps, and NPO had to fight, a little. These were separate terms come to by separate alliances and all put into one treaty to peace the whole thing out together. Those who came up with their terms did so according to how their alliance sees the world, and that was accepted by the rest of the coalition, most of it is pretty benign and addresses directly the other sides prosecution of the war.
No hegemony, each alliance with their own ideas, noone to tell them that there is only one way to think. An improvement if you ask me, despite the pages and pages to bicker that it is being done wrong. It is a free-er world today than it was

Edited May 6, 2011 by Ubermeir

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Ubermeir' timestamp='1304692211' post='2707473']
No hegemony, each alliance with their own ideas, noone to tell them that there is only one way to think. An improvement if you ask me, despite the pages and pages to bicker that it is being done wrong. It is a free-er world today than it was
[/quote]
Oh? Who did this war free us from?

[potato]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304692545' post='2707475']
Oh? Who did this war free us from?
[/quote]

The evil hands of Peace Mode that clinched on most of your nations for so long.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1304692638' post='2707476']
The evil hands of Peace Mode that clinched on most of your nations for so long.
[/quote]
The average CoJ warchest was 40 days, we fought 40 days. We would've fought longer but Umbrella wouldn't give us 10 billion dollars.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Schattenmann

[potato]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304692805' post='2707480']
The average CoJ warchest was 40 days, we fought 40 days. We would've fought longer but Umbrella wouldn't give us 10 billion dollars.
[/quote]

I'll see if we can get some sort of medal ready for you. And better allies.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1304693025' post='2707482']
I'll see if we can get some sort of medal ready for you. And better allies.
[/quote]
That would be cool, but more useful would be a nice letter to ODN and GOONS that next time to just accept a surrender when it's offered.

[Lord Velox]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304693272' post='2707483']
That would be cool, but more useful would be a nice letter to ODN and GOONS that next time to just accept a surrender when it's offered.
[/quote]
And why is that?

Edited May 6, 2011 by Lord Velox

[Letum]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1304692638' post='2707476']
The evil hands of Peace Mode that clinched on most of your nations for so long.
[/quote]

Pot, Kettle, Black.

[NationRuler]

I often wonder if some of you people really believe the things you're posting will make a difference. Or that DH cares about your feelings.
[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1304681489' post='2707434']
Considering that yes...
[/quote]
Also, caught you!

[Letum]

[quote name='NationRuler' timestamp='1304694257' post='2707490']
I often wonder if some of you people really believe the things you're posting will make a difference. Or that DH cares about your feelings.
[/quote]

You...you don't? After I sent you flowers? After we agreed to spend our future together? Is that why everybody left the party when we arrived?

I gave you the best months of my life, and you've just thrown them away like they mean nothing!

[potato]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1304693670' post='2707487']
Pot, Kettle, Black.
[/quote]

You're cute. And you used to be better at this: what happened?

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1304677895' post='2707426']
Legion NS - 3,892,863
The Phoenix Federation NS - 2,489,409
Regnum Invictorum NS - 1,249,074
Cult of Justitia NS - 617,427
The Sasori Initiative - 587,625
64Digits NS - 175,822
Sanitarium NS - 60,436
NADC NS - 1,103,374
SNAFU NS - 1,012,191

Total - 11,188,221 NS, or 36% more than Umbrella's NS.
[/quote]
What the hell has NS got to do with aid slots? The number of nations determine the number of aid slots, not NS. Try comparing those instead.

[Letum]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1304694401' post='2707492']
You're cute. And you used to be better at this: what happened?
[/quote]

I came out of peace mode only to find out you all went to PM and left me alone.

And I had made all these awesome presents to bring too.

[Letum]

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1304694545' post='2707493']
What the hell has NS got to do with aid slots? The number of nations determine the number of aid slots, not NS. Try comparing those instead.
[/quote]

Under that logic, GOONS should have been sending out aid rather than receiving it.

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1304694751' post='2707495']
Under that logic, GOONS should have been sending out aid rather than receiving it.
[/quote]
Absolutely incorrect.

[Letum]

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1304694810' post='2707496']
Absolutely incorrect.
[/quote]

Not really. If you go by "more nations = more aid that can be sent out", then GOONS, having more nations than MK and Umbrella combined, would have been an aid powerhouse.

Quite obviously, that doesn't make any sense at all. And all the reasons why GOONS couldn't do that - because they had small nations and they were fighting wars - also apply to all the people sending out reps now.

[potato]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1304694657' post='2707494']
I came out of peace mode only to find out you all went to PM and left me alone.

And I had made all these awesome presents to bring too.
[/quote]

DoomHouse: Pratical pranks since 2011.

But, hey, if you ever get down there, feel free to come and find me: I like presents.

Edited May 6, 2011 by potato

[Letum]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1304695128' post='2707498']
DoomHouse: Pratical pranks since 2011.

But, hey, if you ever get down there, feel free to come and find me: I like presents.
[/quote]

It's a date. I'll ask Umbrella for some help speeding me up.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='NationRuler' timestamp='1304694257' post='2707490']
I often wonder if some of you people really believe the things you're posting will make a difference. Or that DH cares about your feelings.[/quote]
Care about our feelings as in huggles and tea parties? No. But I would hope that as fellow politicians on a desparate quest to end your boredom that when people do what you want and go to war based on their ideals or treaties, fight til they're spent, then say "alright you won, let's wrap this up" you'd play the long game and get a little more smart and reasonable about things. CoJ, Avalon and other small AAs may not have had a lot of fighting to do, but I can guarantee you this war would have been even more boring than it was without us, and I can guarantee you that having seen how irrational you all are I won't be playing your reindeer games again, which is just going to hurt your boredom problem.
The future aside, what did you even get this time around? NPO's sought-after top tier is only 20 nations, even in 3 rounds of war less than half of you will even get a go with them, and the reps you just couldn't do without don't make up for diddly of the money and unrealized tech imports you wasted on GOONS while they delayed peace with their idiotic demands.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Schattenmann

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1304694939' post='2707497']
Not really. If you go by "more nations = more aid that can be sent out", then GOONS, having more nations than MK and Umbrella combined, would have been an aid powerhouse.

Quite obviously, that doesn't make any sense at all. And all the reasons why GOONS couldn't do that - because they had small nations and they were fighting wars - also apply to all the people sending out reps now.
[/quote]
NS is no guarantee of the ability to send out aid and a damn foolish way to assess the potential performance of an alliance regarding aid sending. If you have 150k NS and $5 billion in the bank you can send out six aid packages at a time, if you have 20k NS and $50 million in the bank you can send out six aid packages at a time. If you have 100 nations you can send a maximum of 600 aid packages at any one time, if you have 500 nations you can send a minimum of 2000 and a maximum of 3000 at a time.

Your GOONS example is irrelevant, because while it obviously would have been foolish to have GOONS send aid to MK and Umbrella the fact is that they could easily send out more aid than MK or Umbrella, because they have more nations and therefore more aid slots. The argument is whether they could not whether they should, and a collection of alliances far outnumbering Umbrella in number of nations could easily match and exceed the number of aid packages that Umbrella sent out in any period.

[Letum]

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1304695655' post='2707502']
NS is no guarantee of the ability to send out aid and a damn foolish way to assess the potential performance of an alliance regarding aid sending. If you have 150k NS and $5 billion in the bank you can send out six aid packages at a time, if you have 20k NS and $50 million in the bank you can send out six aid packages at a time. If you have 100 nations you can send a maximum of 600 aid packages at any one time, if you have 500 nations you can send a minimum of 2000 and a maximum of 3000 at a time.

Your GOONS example is irrelevant, because while it obviously would have been foolish to have GOONS send aid to MK and Umbrella the fact is that they could easily send out more aid than MK or Umbrella, because they have more nations and therefore more aid slots. The argument is whether they could not whether they should, and a collection of alliances far outnumbering Umbrella in number of nations could easily match and exceed the number of aid packages that Umbrella sent out in any period.
[/quote]

I think that...Umbrella's excessive time with high-NS nations has somewhat diluted your understanding of basic economic concepts.

For your analysis to hold true, you require a critical assumption: that each nation is capable of sending out 15m per 10 days. (And it would be 15m rather than 18m, given the general lack of DRA's). However, that assumption does not hold true for most nations in the world. In order for a nation to be capable of doing that, it either needs to have a large enough warchest (i.e, money in the "bank"), or have enough infra to get the required income to make that money.

Now, for a bunch of alliances that have been on the receiving end of a beatdown for the past 3 months, warchests have been depleted for all non-PM nations. So, rather than a 20k NS nation with 50m in the bank, you have a bunch of 5k NS nations with 0m in the bank.

That leaves income as the main way of generating money for aid. A decently built nation should be able to net 1.5m a day at around 4000 infra. GOONS, which you allege could "easily" send out more aid than MK/Umbrella, has a mere 8 nations above that level. Now, granted, a good system of internal backcollecting and aid-falls should be able to expand that capacity significantly - all those low-ns nations are poised for quick growth. But still, it is quite some time before that growth results in an ability to send aid that outstrips Umbrella's - and it is definitely not a capacity that exists right now.

In much the same manner, the 254 nations that NPO currently has at under 2k NS wouldn't be able to even send a fraction of the aid the 22 nations we are bringing out of PM from our upper tier are.

I am not denying that our coalition has enough nations to meet these terms without much difficulty. They wouldn't have been accepted if there was a chance they couldn't. However, going off and saying "you have 5 times more nations than Umbrella, and therefore can send 5 times more aid" is blindingly inaccurate. Not that an NS comparison is particularly accurate either, but one arbitrary and ridiculous metric might as well respond to another one. Next up, we can compare aid potential based on the number of nukes.