pigsticker

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='18 February 2010 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1266496563' post='2189552'] Lol ... so much for the infamous non 'draconian terms'. 350k tech for 45 minutes of war before being held there. [/quote] You at looking at the whole situation from a 10 day later point of view. Look at it another way, as a member of C&G, 45 minutes after that incendiary DoW by Crymsom and attacks by TOP and IRON, do you think that member of C&G would be ready to accept peace? Which brings me to my next point, did no one in TOP or IRON vetted through the DoW? Did no one actually thought that the DoW written as it was, was a bad idea at that time? All those "o/ TOP" posts after the initial DoW, does that paint a picture that TOP was not out to crush C&G? Can you really vision anyone in C&G accepting peace after 45 minutes? If you postulate that Crymsom was dictated by emotions when he made that DoW, can C&G not be dictated by their emotions? I do not support reps and the MHA has generally never accepted nor requested reps. But I can't deny that C&G have a right to reps (not draconian though)in the face of such a DoW and the support from TOP for the DoW in th thread.

Hi Syz, 1) Based on your reading of the situation, TOP wants white peace, but MK wants terms before it will stop the war. 2) The words of the leader of an alliance represents the alliance. While Crymsom might have been speaking from emotions, emotions have also been raised on the other side. Whatever the official reasons for TOP's entry into the war, you can't argue that one of his underlying motive to enter this war is coloured by his prejudice against C&G. You can't blame MK for not accepting White Peace when the leader of an alliance openly admits to declaring war to crush C&G. 3) Does no one actually read or vets Crymsom's DoW before he posts it?? [i]To our opponents: We agree with the New Polar Order's reasons for war against \m/, and we consider ourselves part of that particular side of the war. For our part, however, much our reason to enter this war lies in our desire to defeat those who have shown time and time again, in public and in private, that doing harm to us is high on their agenda---and that, indeed, they would take advantage of any advantageous opportunity to do so. This is a war they have brought upon themselves.[/i] (quoted for the absurdity of the whole DoW) You have to agree that based on the above, in no way will MK ever accept White Peace. How then does your entry into the war solve anything? Doesn't it serve to escalate it further? Wouldn't your efforts be better served to finding peace for both sides? Hey, I'm just in the MHA, someone dragged unwillingly into the war over some pissed poor excuse that never should have escalated to this level. But I'm just curious as to how would you try to get peace offered in this case since you want peace for TOP but MK wants terms (which I think you agreed they are entitled to, correct me if I'm wrong) and TOP will only accept White Peace. Cheers

[quote name='President Obama' date='15 February 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1266208412' post='2182181'] I don't know how you jumped to this line of thought as Crymson is not TOP Gov. This makes it unlikely that it is the official stance of TOP. [/quote] yeah my fault on that.. I read that thread but forgot all about it.... but seeing that Crymson pretty much was the public face of TOP for so long and at the start of the war, was still leading TOP, his words do carry a certain weight. Anyway, GGA while not being the best fighters, did show that they valued their friendship over their infra and I feel that maybe we should keep the lolgga bashing to a minimum until they trip up again. Then we could start sharpening the knives again MRRABT : We must also be doing so badly that you need GGA, Echelon, TUF, MCXA, NADC and IRON to fight us

[quote name='Crymson' date='15 February 2010 - 08:05 AM' timestamp='1266192321' post='2181555'] Too bad, and somewhat shameful. Thanks for your contribution to the war, I guess. [/quote] too bad TOP's war aid to GGA wasn't that much useful eh? though it sure had a positive impact on my warchest. Is this TOP's official stance? If it is, with friends like this, who needs enemies. One hopes that GGA starts choosing its allies wisely.

what a chain ....

hurray fror chaining... so when are you going to chain such that you can attack your selves? ridiculous...

this is ridiculous...

ahhh.. so you're teh enemy... still good luck GUN.. always did have a soft spot for you guys

that's one down and 4 more to go i think...

Right, as your new overlords, i command all of you to fill all my slots with 50 tech till the game ends. Is this evil enough?

Even TOP doesn't deserve this.

Fark, Leave some targets for us... dun take all the fun away

Right... well.. My GGA opponent seems fun, so I shall keep my usual needling of GGA to a minimum... Maybe I should send this to my GGA opponent and see what happens

So everyone that comes into this thread criticising our actions agree that TOP/IRON has the right to make a pre-emptive strike on C&G, which at that point was not involved in the war at all. While Gre coming in to defend their ex-allies, thru a cancelled treaty and which they have stated clearly in their cancellation thread that though the treaty has been cancelled, the spirit of the treaty remains. NpO attacked \m/ due to their tech-raid against an established alliance with whom they have no relations to. Apparently all 3 actions are not in the form of CN norms, but the view I'm getting here is that it's alright to make a pre-emptive attack or attack another alliance without a valid CB, but it's not right to have a paperless FA. Can't believe I just wasted half an hour of my time reading a load of crap and responding to people who can't accept other views on CN behaviours that does not conform to their personal views on the norms of CN behaviour. To TOP, quite a few of your members have admitted that you have made a strategic blunder and many of them have admitted they are having fun right now. You made your decision, live with it. Stop bugging people just because you made a miscalculation. Maybe you should look at cleaning your own house, i.e. Citadel, before coming to query our actions.

yeah I know, but I'm getting convinced that TOP ain't too happy with us. So that's probably the best solution. We can argue semantics till the cows come home and the bottom line is, if TOP didn't make this blunder, things might not have degenerated to this stage. Anyway, TOP created this mess, so they will have to live with it.

And I still thought I understood how TOP felt after Hellangel's reply. Obviously I was wrong. If TOP and MHA still can't see eye to eye, then I think it's best to cancel the treaty. I bet we will waive the cancellation period if you ask for it. you probably won't feel that much hurt if we arent connected.

so what's your problem? Obviously you don't understand the whole point of going paperless. This is just making you look like an ignorant fool.

he must be an accountant, he can't work without an audit trail

well we haven't thrown much mud yet, except for maybe one or two posts here and there. I guess we will replace you on the list of the greatest survivalist alliance after this latest war. At least that's one TOP spot, you're not getting from us

Might have worked if we were entering on behalf of \m/. Not everyone were comfortable with joining in the fight it we had entered to fight for \m/'s defense. Many felt more comfortable if we had entered on the side of NpO instead. But seeing that your DoW was basically a pre-emptive strike on C&G, I don't see where the link to \m/ comes about anymore. Thanks to your actions, this hard decision was averted. Even those dissenters are now jumping into the fray. Doesn't this make you wonder why? With reference to your question on what Gremlins stood for, Yes, we don't support tech-raiding in any forms, except well during actual wars that is. With this, I would post the same question back to you, do you not follow the ideals you held in Gre after joining another alliance? Is the action of TOP really in the spirit of your ideals? And is this something you would have done while in Gre?

this might not be true for Gre, but unfortunately for many people, walking away from the fight is easier than fighting to the end.

why all the talk? put your words into action? You could either attack Gre or attack MK/FoK/Argent/Umbrella/Fark and see what happens? So every few months, you attack Gre or another alliance whom you believe Gre should be defending. Then you will get to see their new FA in action. Isn't that simple?

Sssshhhhh... let's keep our secret plans secret. So secret that no one will ever know when the secret plans have been put into place and when they have been accomplished because it's so secret that no one knows what secret plans are there in the first place.

well, what can i say... the most survivalist alliance strikes again !!

digging a deeper hole, one post at a time