Groucho Marx

It's not that you forgot to laugh, it's that you are dumb.

I can't imagine what it is like to be this wrong all of the time.

Owned by Myth. Probably a good sign that you need to get over it, bruce.

You're missing GOONS-Sparta MnDoAP.

I'm sure Nordreich is reeling from their loss.

Whoa now, let's not get overzealous. Some things are just going to remain constant no matter what.

They did. We're currently occupying the Neutral Shoving AA as a result.

They have a treaty with Fark. A PIAT, if memory serves.

Do us all a favor and stop posting.

The whole point to this thread is a call to action, more or less, and nobody will answer. You don't strike me as someone who would do this out of the kindness of your heart, so that leads to me believe, a belief that is being confirmed already in this thread, that you burned all of your bridges with DBDC and this is your attempt to get even. Your credibility is suspect, especially since you didn't make this post [i]with[/i] the evidence, and your timing in light of your culpability in DBDC's "crimes" put a sour note on your intentions. You were a discredited witness before you even opened your mouth, and you only have yourself to blame for that.

It's funny that you had a change of heart now and not before when you could have potentially received assistance from WTF/GPA/Pax Corvus when they were in a position to challenge DBDC. IRON would never help you because DBDC is one of the few things keeping their alliance from being obliterated, so I don't know why you would bother raising a ruckus about it now. IRON either knows they're being targeted and is hoping to outplay DBDC in the long run while using their treaty as protection until the time is right, or they do not believe DBDC would go after them a second time so they are investing everything on that assumption. Either way, IRON will not do anything. As for the other allegations, this is the wrong place to make them.

Agreed.

You're a clown. Comparing bad things that happen in a game to bad things that happened in the real world, specifically atrocities perpetuated by the Nazis and the Third Reich, is dumb. You are dumb. Backpedal yourself into your mother's womb so we don't have to acknowledge that you exist.

You're right, you only lost 5.4M NS as opposed to six, but you only dealt about 5.3M NS in damage to the opposing side, according to the latest update to the very public war tracker. In a war your alliance outnumbers the opposition significantly on the winning side. And you're right, your upper tier was open [i]until recently[/i]. Until word got out that TOP would be exiting PM. You can check the passive-aggressive "gotcha" attitude at the door because I have just as much access to all of the actual figures as you do, and I don't even need to massage them to make your alliance look like a garbage heap.

I was hoping Zog was coming back with this announcement. Either way congratulations and good luck.

You can poke at TOP for not fighting to your satisfaction if you like but I wouldn't complain too much. I hate peace mode quips more than the next guy, but it really does say something when word gets out that TOP will be exiting peace mode and IRON's top tier [i]dives[/i] into it, leaving your allies and coalition partners to shoulder that particular burden on their own. Your alliance has dealt less damage than you've taken, and you've lost 6M NS in a war where you significantly outnumber your foes. And before you trot that line about how "it's because we're outnumbered in the mid tier", that is full of shit. IRON may have accumulated a lot of stats, but it's plain to everyone now that your alliance is just a tiger on paper. Much in the same way The Imperial Order and Anarchy Inc. were at their heights, and they crumpled under tougher opposition than you are facing now.

Somehow I think our ties between Umbrella and TOP, VE and Sparta, will be very important in the next war. If there's one trend that you should have noticed instead of the imaginary ones inside your mind, it's that wartime coalitions tend to rearrange themselves in the post-war period more significantly than they did before EQ. Former enemies bury the hatchet and establish ties, former friends go their separate ways and everyone is looking to gain an advantage over everybody else. This is nothing new. But when significant political entities are the ones making these shifts more commonly, it changes the formula more than it had in the past where you would see the same two, roughly monolithic, sides going at it for a couple wars before the reshuffle. Our allies and their friends, their enemies, as well as ourselves will be looking to rebuild a new coalition for the next war. We all know these treaties are a big deal, and they will affect the political calculus. They already have. Now it's just a question of who will capitalize on it, and who will seek to smear GOONS in an attempt to disingenuously undermine our position. We're already seeing who fits in among the latter, leaving me no cause for concern. As for the former, only time can tell. I have faith that Sardonic, Ken and Milton will navigate GOONS through the post-war political maze to a viable position not just for ourselves, but our allies too.

You must be very angry that we didn't try to take the easy way out by picking your side at the expense of half of our allies. I'd say our government's decision to stay out of this conflict and the difficulty that will bring for us is significantly better than IRON throwing NG under the bus last war rather callously, and as a bonus you guys were threatening to pull out of the coalition you had committed to over some very weak reasons, causing a lot of unnecessary headaches when you demonstrated just how hollow promises from IRON can be when it comes down to it. That isn't empty rhetoric either, it's documented history every world leader worth their salt knows about. I'm sure you guys have spent quite a bit of time on your knees repairing the damage wrought by your own short-sighted actions in order to endear yourselves with the same people that actually want nothing more than to see your alliance leveled as soon as it suits them. But that is neither here or there. We made a conscious decision to contribute nothing in the fight against TOP and Sparta on one side, and Umbrella and VE on the other. It would have been far worse if we had decided to throw our lot in with either side, and it would be far more harmful to GOONS to actively participate in the undermining of our friends and allies in a situation where they are split into opposing sides. I know this is a concept that seems pretty foreign to IRON considering how liberally you treat your obligations, but as bad as this decision is it is by far the best option. But let's go ahead and delve into how anyone could make the decision to remain neutral in a war where they have two sets of allies on opposing sides, for your benefit. I'll be using my own alliance and the current war as the mirror for my hypothetical scenarios because creating a new fictional one is too much effort: Let's say GOONS decided to throw our lot in with the defenders, not because we have any deep affection for or inclination toward liking Aftermath, but because we feel the justification for the aggressive war doesn't negate the non-chaining clauses in our treaties with TOP and Sparta, who will undoubtedly be drawn into the conflict. We know this is most likely going to be a losing war for us in this situation but we want to stand on a principle we deem important. Our friends in TOP and Sparta are pleased to know they have another midtier alliance willing to join the fight and provide much needed support, but the war is still unlikely to be won. The outcome not much different than it would be without us on their side. But in the process we wind up alienating our long time allies and friends in the Viridian Entente and Umbrella by actively engaging in a war against them. We would effectively be throwing away years of hard work and partnership for minimal, if any, political gain on top of the stigma associated with irresponsibly handling treaty obligations by picking and choosing which to fulfill at the expense of others. Our decision would certainly shut down any opportunities we would otherwise have in making inroads with mutual friends on one side of our base in favor of the other and we would lose a lot of our political capital, which in turn would hurt TOP and Sparta almost as much as it would GOONS. On the other hand, if we chose to completely disregard our treaties with TOP and Sparta by joining the war on the opposing side with Umbrella and VE, we would be criticized for deliberately picking the winning team. Umbrella and VE would be pleased to have more support in the war. But our relations with TOP and Sparta would be strained, potentially to the breaking point, and we would be criticized further for treating our newer partners as if they were expendable in favor of our older allies. And worse still, we would be reinforcing a very old and inaccurate assumption that we are merely an extension of Umbrella, in the absence of MK, doing whatever they tell us to do. Our diplomatic efforts across the board would be compromised irreparably and we would actually become dependent upon the good will of Umbrella and VE in order to keep those who wish to do us harm at bay while leaving us powerless to pursue our own agenda. We would cease to have any semblance of independence in a world where everyone is no more than three chains away from each other. GOONS has worked very hard over the years to better our position and to achieve what many didn't think was possible for us. It wouldn't be prudent for us to take either course of action, so that leaves us with a third option, marginally better than these two. Neutrality. Another complicated, less than ideal option but with consequences not as severe. Knowing that half of our allies will be against the other in the upcoming conflict, we contact all of them privately to confirm where they will stand and to formally declare our intent to remain neutral. It isn't even a question they would prefer it if we chose their side. And I'm certain for one side more than the other, they would be more inclined to be disappointed, even a little angry, that we would not be providing assistance when they need it. This would create tension between GOONS and all of our major allies, some more than others, and I completely understand. At the same time all of them would understand (or at least I hope they would) our desire not to work against them. They'll also appreciate not having an additional six million nation strength thrown at them and used to complement one side or the other's cards at the negotiating table. In the short term our public image is hurt by our seeming inaction and by unironic smear attacks from alliances like IRON, but that's all part of the game. Unlike in the other two options, we give ourselves the opportunity to maintain and repair our relationships with our current allies while also demonstrating that we take our obligations very seriously, by not choosing one side or the other when an "easy" solution presents itself. At worst, maybe a treaty is downgraded, perhaps even canceled, on one side or the other (I don't know since I've been out of the loop for quite some time now) but our foreign policy won't be nearly as crippled as it would be otherwise. Reasonable people across the spectrum will be less likely to turn us away and we will still be free to make most of the choices we want to make without having to lean on any one of our allies heavily. That's how I believe this played out, or will play out, more or less. I don't know all of the details that went into my government making the choice they have but I'm pretty confident that I'm close to the reality of, and logic behind, the situation. Oh, and another lesson. That weight lifting meme insult - I guess it's supposed to be an insult, anyway - that's the hallmark of a dumb person. It tells everyone that you actually don't have anything interesting or of value to say, adding to the white noise that is all of your garbage posts.

Coming from you this is fantastic. IRON's been perpetuating a lot of falsehoods about TOP for quite some time now and it's typical to see NG falling in line with whatever the alliance who had consciously thrown you under a bus in the last war says for brownie points. IRON's spent the last few years picking their fights better than anyone, to some extent going completely out of their way to avoid a challenging fight or lifting their own weight at great expense to their allies and their coalitions. Every so often they carry more of the water when they have to in order to keep people from becoming too displeased with their unwillingness to sacrifice a lot of the dead weight that their alliance has in abundance but it's barely ever enough.

I'll keep the advice with a vague hint of threat behind it from a noted quality poster such as yourself in mind going forward.

It's been a while since I've seen an NPO member tell someone else what they should or should not be posting.

Ah, nostalgia.

Ah yeah you're right. I should shut up and not express my own opinion because some tool might attribute it to GOONS official policy. Sardonic really should do a better job at preventing his members from expressing their own opinions because people might not like those opinions!

Yeah well we already know that CN aside we get along just fine and agree on some things.