Heft

[quote name='stockhunter' timestamp='1322896744' post='2860369'] Ah, I'll get called arrogant yet when MCRABT, the IRON president, derails The Last Republic's threads you say nothing. Kudos [/quote] If you like I'll call Rab arrogant. But he's actually earned it. You're just annoying, and making it abundantly clear to everyone here why you were unable to rise any higher than you did within IRON.

[quote name='MrCynical' timestamp='1322895231' post='2860326'] I am posting in a positive manner to point out that the previous reply was positively retarded. [/quote] Well that's just rude. :/

[quote name='MrCynical' timestamp='1322894979' post='2860313'] I am posting in a positive manner to not support old/busted rhetoric. [/quote] It's good to be positive, especially during trying times. Keep your spirits up! There's always a light at the end of the tunnel!

Well I suppose a stale meme is the only proper response to a cascade of wars justified on stale vendettas. Well done.

[quote name='Captain V' timestamp='1322894338' post='2860248'] Death to the Initiative! Aquahog time machine engage! [/quote] I await the declarations on GOONS and \m/ with bated breath.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1322892646' post='2860167'] By adult conversations you mean your "QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!"? [/quote] Well, it beats most of your posts, to be fair.

[quote name='stockhunter' timestamp='1322892881' post='2860182'] oh wait, I'm sorry, I meant to say "says the alliance who had to have their friends threaten Legion because they were too stubborn to surrender" [/quote] I've pretty much accepted that the NSO is destined to be the whipping boy for other alliance's failures, so I'm not too bothered by your ignorance here. Really, I'm more bothered that you're continuing to reply to me without ever actually replying to what I was saying, hence the comment about your apparently inability/refusal to read what was written. To make it clearer, I was saying that it appears that Fark was faced with an obviously unwinnable war and proceeded to do something totally pointless and stupid rather than actually trying to deal with the situation in a rational or useful manner, thus raising questions about their ability to handle stress. You don't know for sure the mettle of an alliance until you've seen how they react to being tossed in the gutter, and so far this isn't very impressive. But, again, have fun!

[quote name='stockhunter' timestamp='1322892353' post='2860150'] says the alliance who just lost to Legion [/quote] So, are you unable to read or just too lazy to try?

This only works when the winning side does it. Otherwise, fairly pointless. It would be interesting if the alliance whose only real achievement is surviving an unwinnable war for half a year would now be unable to cope with the stress of an only slightly unwinnable war (at least relative to that first one you faced). Unless this is some brilliant ploy that no one else can understand? But whatever, have fun with that.

[quote name='HellAngel' timestamp='1322765285' post='2858332'] Politics werent involved? Are you kidding me? This is a political masterwork. TOP was the most despised and hated alliance after bipolar, now they get to stomp the faces of Polaris in one more time and everyone applauds their move. I agree thats its kinda boring and rote, but it's still the most exciting thing that is happening right now. That says more about everyone else than it does about TOP. NSO for example, always likes to talk like a big guy, yet hasnt done anything worth remembering for said last 2 years. Getting revenge on Polaris was their thing, everybody knew it, and they followed through on it. The current situation is also a proof that it doesnt matter how clear you are on your intent, theres always someone just not getting it. RIA for example. They signed an MDP with Polaris and yet they still seem to be utterly baffled at this war, taking 5 days now to make preparations that should have been done the second the thought of a treaty with polaris appeared. [/quote] NSO has done more than Gramlins has, since I keep forgetting that you bothered to reform. But yes, I agree that if this is the best that people can come up with then that's pretty sad. And RIA are kind of dumb.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322717819' post='2857700'] If you think no politics were involved, take a look at where TOP stood politically in April 2010 and where we stand right now. [/quote] Congratulations, you made friends and no waves while your chosen rivals basically stood still. Thrilling. This isn't even necessarily a criticism of TOP, just of the idea that somehow launching a war like this is either setting a positive precedent or in some way positively altering norms or whatever. Have fun and at least we're finally getting this out of the way but, eh.

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1322716436' post='2857667'] "As such, an attack of any kind on one is considered a valid casus belli that must be acted upon by the other." [/quote] All this really proves is that everyone is incompetent and no one reads the treaties that they sign any more, even when it's a military treaty on the eve of a war.

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322598521' post='2856035'] Doesn't it, though? We've cornered ourselves in with such a cumbersome and stagnant definition of a "casus belli" that there is no room for movement in politics anymore. For people !@#$%*ing about using a 2 year old CB, maybe they should instead take a closer look at the 6 year old informal model by which we govern ourselves by. [/quote] I'm pretty sure resorting to a 2 year old CB, or waiting 2 years to actually act on the damn thing, is a sign itself of stagnation. Declaring war because "$%&@ you for that thing you did way back when" is terrible for politics, because it's so bland and base and boring. Are we supposed to argue about BiPolar again, for the billionth time? Grub was an idiot and Polar screwed everyone and it was a !@#$%* thing to do. Either act on the damn thing or let it go. If you're going to wait this long to get your "revenge" then it would be much more interesting if some actual politics were involved, if some actual diplomatic work had to be done and politicking was in play or something. This is just boring and rote. But the biggest problem isn't that it's just an empty revenge CB, but that apparently our politics are so stagnant that they're still dominated and determined by what happened at the beginning of 2010. You say that the old model leaves no room for movement in politics, but I say that this model leaves no politics of consequence.

[quote name='Trinite' timestamp='1322706326' post='2857476'] I assume they are waiting nearly two years in order to rebuild and forge new friendships, amid fierce competition, until it is finally time. amirite? [/quote] What the hell a Sparta post made me laugh. Weird. I mean, uh, you suck, etc.

Yea people really do suck at running wars these days. Been true for a few years now. I'm just happy that for once it's not us getting screwed over. Also, SF sucks, etc.

The pre-emptive strike was always controversial and opposed by NSO at the time, mostly because the whole "Strategizing" thing left us and so many others flapping in the breeze for a good week while everyone deliberated, and it just seemed to be an example of you guys outsmarting yourselves. Also it seems to have established a pretty stupid precedent and continued the gradual decline of anyone giving a !@#$ about having a decent political reason for going to war (see: DH/NPO and now this itself). Conjuring up CBs was half the fun, now it's just the popular kid rounding up his friends to beat up the unpopular kid. But in any case, the pre-emptive strike certainly didn't lose the war, and wasn't anywhere near on par with Grub's sudden bout of staggering and baffling idiocy.

Good show.

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1322351756' post='2852998'] You can ask both sides and it'll come down to miscommunication. We've had plenty of time to talk about it and figure out what went wrong and where, no one side is free of mistakes. What we did wrong, we admitted it and settled it privately. None of us forgot it nor did we threw it under the carpet. However you're free to believe whatever about the nature of mistakes. [/quote] Also, NPO has declared its support for TOP and IRON, so I think we can call that one settled now.

Reverse The Polarity *takes a bow*

Would've been nice if certain alliances had managed to find their balls last month instead of now, but hey this is cool too I guess.

Thread title is good but would've been more historically appropriate if it had been used by [s]TOP instead. [/s]edit: actually you should have saved it for a valhalla declaration. My memory is failing me. Silly reason to go to war, but I suppose it isn't any sillier than the reason that started the war you're now "avenging" or whatever, so have fun! At least you're capable of acting, even if it took you awhile to get around to it.

I thought everyone already assumed that Polar and SF would end up burning together anyway. Might as well clump them all together. This sort of thing isn't exactly a deterrent, more of a two-for-one special. Of course that assumes that any of the loud mouths constantly saying "We're going to get you" will actually ever get around to following through on it....

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320727200' post='2841480'] I'm sure STA's chancellor will be more than happy to explain his unnecessary slight with his own words. As for threats, relax. My alliance has nothing to prove to anyone, least of all you. The irony that you would replicate some of NSO's rhetoric less than 24 hours of the war ending is not lost on me. [/quote] We are a positive influence upon all those we encounter. A beacon of righteousness in a wayward world. [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320727433' post='2841482'] He admitted that NSO was defeated, but added so much preface and rationalization that it obscured the essential point. Bereft of all the extras, what we are left with a candid remark. There are worse things than being part of a coalition of alliances that got beaten by Legion. It's where you go from here that truly matters. You got serious recruiting, retention, and growth/rebuilding issues that should be taking up your time, not OWF spin. [/quote] My post offered a comprehensive and, yes, candid portrayal of the situation, while you are so intent on narrow-mindedly focusing on the "NSO didn't win!" aspect that you are apparently incapable of seeing anything else. A truly unfortunate case of tunnel vision. Political telescoping, as it were.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320714697' post='2841373'] I'm sorry, I had to get rid of the gibberish. [/quote] Well it sure is nice of you to show so clearly what our critics have been reduced to.

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1320696603' post='2841222']I don't think anyone doubts that without MK/VE intervening you'd have got the 'D word' into this peace accord, but you have clearly won so it doesn't really matter. I'm glad to see some prominent NSO posters (hi, Heft) stating clearly that NSO didn't win; that ought to cut down on revisionism in the future. I'm also happy to be proved wrong about NSO's willingness to take brinksmanship to ridiculous extremes by rejecting termless peace. I still think that MK and VE's intervention was poorly judged and unhelpful, but it's good to see that a reasonably fair peace agreement has been arrived at and that the war won't escalate. [/quote] We got what we wanted and had pushed for for weeks with this peace agreement, and I am confident that we would have gotten it regardless of the MK and VE's little stunt (I suppose VE had to do something to "support" Tetris after such a long time of doing nothing, though). It was never our intention to go to war with Legion, and it was never our desire to escalate this war either. We threatened to do so, and we were fully willing to do so if necessary, but it was never our first choice, so once we were finally given the equitable offer we had sought there was no reason to continue. So, no, this war hasn't been a victory for us, although it would be ignorant to cast the blame on us for the outcome. It's easy to blame us since we're so visible by virtue of actually fighting, but we didn't lose the war. We managed to deal a very significant amount of damage to our opponent and to stay largely competitive with a larger opponent for the better part of a month despite the best efforts of so many people to "help" us, and that's good enough for now.