Hime Themis

Gentle Persons It is not our way in the Rosular Kingdom to engage in the belittling of any nation or alliance. I hope to provide the following information so that other smaller nations may learn from this sad chapter. As a nation in the higher ranks we daily receive requests, queries and offers. I believe it my responsibility to respond to each of these PMs out of courtesy and desire to help newer nations learn about Digiterra. Nato12 a while back asked to join our alliance a request I get virtually daily. I responded after reviewing his nation that we did not accept tech raiders as we do not approve of that action. I suggested he consider a more peaceful approach and try his hand at tech selling. As I always do I include the link to the Black Market http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showforum=62 As a source to review to see how others do it and an idea of pricing. I invited him to return after a time if he had indeed chosen another path. I like to follow nations for a while after I have provide some thoughts to see if they bear any fruit. I am pleased to see that some have heeded the advice I proffered about possible things to build , way to run their economy and see them hook up with good alliances. Sadly this was not the case with nato12. He proceeded on his original course and I lost interest in his progress. Now I should state clearly here that the Rosular Kingdom does not condone tech raiding but there are some alliances like GOONS who have at least taken the approach of a clearly defined set of rules and courtesies to the practice that has earned our grudging respect. Like well healed confidence men they have a style unlike the normal street thugs who take up the practice. We like to think of the respectful tech raiders as mothers who party hard with the girls every Friday night but only after feeding the kids and making sure they are down to bed and have a good baby sitter and a set return time. Not a lifestyle we would emulate but credit where credit is due. Yesterday nato12 appears in my Pms again. This conversation started before any attacks were made on his alliance. To: Hime Themis From: nato12 Date: 6/1/2010 1:36:03 PM Subject: alliance Message: would your alliance like to be the protectoraite of my allaince also could you help me a forum for my alliance To: nato12 From: Hime Themis Date: 6/1/2010 1:49:58 PM Subject: RE: alliance Message: Good nato12 Not exactly how it is done. You may wish to talk to alliances about a protectorate AFTER actually describing who you are and what you stand for as an alliance. However since I did a little checking myself, you are all tech raiders and some of your numbers have been ghosting other alliances. This disqualifies you from our protection. We do not support either activity. I wish you well in finding a protectorate and hope you can find reasons to exist beyond theft. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis To: Hime Themis From: nato12 Date: 6/1/2010 1:59:02 PM Subject: RE: alliance Message: none of us are ghost nations i left my alliance and sent a message on the forums asking if i have to do anything before i leave and yes we do tech raid but we have alot to offer we will help in wars i myself do not really go to war but my alliance members will do all the work you don't want to do like destroying ghost nations also we would like to do a tech deal between are alliances for 50 tech for million or 100 tech for 3 million at maximum To: nato12 From: Hime Themis Date: 6/1/2010 3:22:44 PM Subject: RE: alliance Message: Nato12 protected by ramon and potentially the protectoraite of knof so don't invade any of my alliance members (Not true or you are asking for a protectorate behind their back?) don't invade me because my alliance is protected (not true or you would not be asking for a protectorate) don't invade because my alliance is protected (see above) knifekiller1432 was ghosting NPO when he declared war. So lies, tech raiding, ghosting and oddly the exact same wording in the bios maybe illegal multi’s? Anything else we should add????? Respectfully Dame Hime Themis Received Message To: Hime Themis From: nato12 Date: 6/1/2010 3:57:28 PM Subject: RE: alliance Message: Your a sharp one but no I tell every member to type that in your bio that my alliance is protected also yes Forsyth was a ghost but not any more now can we put the past behind us and could we be protectiraites and can you help me make a forum To: nato12 From: Hime Themis Date: 6/1/2010 4:03:12 PM Subject: RE: alliance Message: nato12 You may be a good guy but the lies and tech raiding will not fly so I am afraid the answer will remain no. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis :. Received Message To: Hime Themis From: nato12 Date: 6/1/2010 4:22:40 PM Subject: RE: alliance Message: ok but I don't lie To: nato12 From: Hime Themis Date: 6/1/2010 7:38:12 PM Subject: RE: alliance Message: nato12 Read your bio. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis :. Received Message To: Hime Themis From: nato12 Date: 6/2/2010 12:56:06 AM Subject: RE: alliance Message: I need the money To: nato12 From: Hime Themis Date: 6/1/2010 7:45:11 PM Subject: RE: war Message: nato12 I would call on ramon your protector in your bio. "i like to tehc raid iam a 13 year old boy so i like tech raiding" I guess it is not as much fun when you are on the receiving end. Thus my warning. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis :. Received Message To: Hime Themis From: nato12 Date: 6/2/2010 1:17:26 AM Subject: RE: war Message: yeah ok i know it's not nice on the other end i have learnt alot could i join your alliance but i will need some aid please ramon said he would help me i sent him a message but he has not replied To: nato12 From: Hime Themis Date: 6/2/2010 6:55:58 AM Subject: RE: war Message: nato12 Sadly that is not how we work. We do not pay new recruits and we do not accept raiders. Ramon is your best bet. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis To other newer nations and alliances please understand that most higher level nations receive daily requests, offers, begging and odd threats. I personally average about 8-10 a day. Most nations who have been long on Digiterra or have achieved a higher NS status are seasoned rulers. We all for the most part can read, know how the economic system works, can tell you how the war system runs and can spot a scam a mile off. The above mentioned alliance had 5 members at the time. All had more offensive losses than defensive losses, one had no defensive losses. These are raiders. The above mentioned alliance had attacks on nations from numerous different AAs. Including the blue nation that attacked under the NPO AA my personal favourite. This type of war from various AAs particularily recognized alliances is a big sign that reads GHOST. They did delete these wars immediately after I noted that to them so cudo’s on that at least. Numerous incoming aid deals with no out going tech says TECH SCAMMER. Switching your bios very rapidly with changing information as this alliance did is a sure sign of BS going on the respectable sound alliances have solid consistant bios. Claiming a protectorate will often get you challenged. There are sharks in the water kids chumming it with a lie in your bio is just plain dumb. I like to take every PM I get from a newer nation as a learning chance. Some are respectful some just down right rude but that is Digiterra and the only way to make it better is to respond and hope some learn. One last warning. I know many in the top tier of nations most are good and decent people, should you as a new nation approach us with legitamte questions or real offers of deals you will for the most part be treated very well with respect and dignity. Treat them as if they were morons and the result can be most unpleasant. Two quotes from a favourite movie. Gabriel Caine: Do you know the difference between a hustler and a good con-man? Fitz: No. Gabriel Caine: A hustler has to get out of town as quick as he can, but a good con-man - he doesn't have to leave until he wants to. John Gillon: Never try and hustle a hustler, Mr. Cain! [after the 10th fight] Gabriel Caine: Actually, I believe it goes: Never con a con-man, especially one who's better than you are. Good luck to all the new players and alliances just trying to do it right. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Good TOP We doff our helm to honour the hard work and challenges of maintaining an alliance for 4 long years. Trials and tribulations always take their toll but perseverance of spirit and purpose have seen you through. We salute this achievement of our friends. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Good Prime Minister Johns I shall always think of you in Hippie Green it is sad to see another who believed in the value of playing your role to the hilt leave the field. I wish you well in new realms and hope you shall return now and again to see how we all do. So fare thee well. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Good Bob Janova I would like to update the material you have for The Order of the Black Rose. We all appreciate the hard work and effort you have made to allow all of us easy access to a simple and reliable source of information. Our CSN with GR is officially an ODP not MDP. The Black Rose Grows ODP with TOP A Pact Between the Order of the Black Rose and MFO ODP Letter of Amity LoA with Asgaard We thank you again for your attention to these updates. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Good and Noble April You and I have passed each other in the night many a time through our respective journeys on Digiterra. It was first in GPA I had the opportunity to learn a little about you. What I learned made me pleased that I had found a place in a world where those who believed in those odd but simple ideals could find a place. You were a tiny but bright light that shone and it was a joy to see that. I know and have followed you through the darker and brighter times. We speak periodically as passing ships exchange familiar but oft infrequent whistles in the night. I am sure you know what I believe about you, I think you need have little question of what I stand for and how close to your views I stand. I shall as I wrote you just a short while ago be highly disappointed if your light is extinguished as it brought warmth beyond its obvious glow. As I rapidly approach that same milestone I can but offer the simple truths that make me continue on. No one who changes a single mind, lifts a single spirit, aids a single person in need or provides even one person with that one piece of wisdom that lifts them higher has failed to change the world here on Digiterra or in RL. My beliefs says it is better to light a single candle AND curse the darkness. Go not quietly into that good night. Your friend. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Gentle Persons I doubt I have to state which side of this debate I stand on. I would however like to give a reason for morality that I am always shocked is over looked. In any endevour I undertake and particularly gaming immorality or amorality more particularly is always available as a choice. Frankly some of us are good enough to be able to "cheat" and get away with it. So why be moral? Simple answer the next time you play solitaire or play a computer game by all means hit the cheat mode. Then ask yourself did I really enjoy the victory? Playing in a moral and ethical fashion has more to do with oneself than others. Sure I could win a slew of games playing with the cheat mode so what. I find the challenge of winning or playing a game within a very tight set of moral or ethical constraints far more challenging and FAR more rewarding to win.You have no idea how rewarding it is to win a game while having kept your word and agreements the whole way through. You have overcome a huge handicap and won So take the easy way all you cheat is yourself. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Sal Paradise' date='23 April 2010 - 01:58 AM' timestamp='1272002273' post='2271763'] Foreign Affairs: any female - because you're all a bunch of rubes Communications: Hime Themis - she could defecate in an orphan's gruel and people would call her classy. [/quote] Good Sal On behalf of all the ladies I would like to thank you for that vote of confidence. After all the lovely Christmas cards we exchanged. Oh your gruel is ready. Surprising such a charmer has not been snapped up As in any draft with a pool so deep I would happily trade down and not pay that high draft price and trade down for some extra picks from those quiet but effective leaders who never make the top picks list. I think we badly underestimate the talent of many alliances silent but dedicated leaders. I respect a larger number I have had the privilege to interact with with in the larger alliances and many in those smaller unknown alliance. I have to admit my list includes leaders of alliances who follow a path I would not choose but that makes them no less worthy. It is just hard to name them and look like I like them. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Gentle Persons The Noble alliance of Asgaard and the Order of the Black Rose are pleased to announce that after sometime working together for economic benefit of both, that Asgaard has honoured the OBR by signing as the first signatory of a Letter of Amity. Letter of Amity Signatories 1. Acknowledge a desire to further relations in a formal fashion. 2. Pledge special care in the positive discourse between members in all public venues. 3. Refrain from negative commentary or complaint in all public venues. 4. Agree to resolve all reasonable grievances in a private and cordial manner. 5. Will pursue broader social contact between members. 6. Open economic interests with each other 7. Share information or intelligence that is received that impacts the other. 8. Be open to enhancing the level of formal diplomatic relations where reasonable. 9. Refrain from any aggressive military action or spying efforts against the other. 10. Refrain from providing succour to an enemy of the other during war. 11. Will provide knowledge, advice and aid in reasonable measure as requested. 12. Maintain a formal active diplomatic post in the Alliance Forum of each other. Cancellation may be sadly accepted with 48 hours notice and a further 72 hours of NAP. For Asgaard The Aesir Tyr- Lonewolfe2015 Loki- Gambona Magni- Mustakrakish II The Vanir Thaisport Hunger Commander Thrawn For the Order of the Black Rose Sir Winslow Knight Protector The Knights Council It is always a pleasure to make a friend and an even greater pleasure to publicly recognize that. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Good Ronald MacDonald I would have offered Itsuki Koizumi thanks for trying to help out a new nation. I offer it in your stead. That was a kind thing he did not all are so willing to provide good and useful advice without comment. I am sure my friends in Mushroom Kingdom can help you improve your nation and style. They are good people I do hope you learn well from them. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Gentle Persons It is all too easy to believe that one’s words contain all the necessary wisdom and eloquence required to make a perfect post and perfect treaty. The Order of the Black Rose believes that one can never have too much knowledge or wisdom, so welcomes all advice offered in good faith, In the days since we posted our new treaties many friends and those not yet friends have offered questions, advice and wisdom. In this process one important point of clarity seems to be coming up regularly in regard to #2 of the PoV. We look at the world with eyes geared to seeing the positive and yet with some innocence. We made very clear our displeasure at any form of spying and our aversion to aggressive war but it left a void in the clarity of our view of what is in fact an aggressive war. There has been considerable debate over the nature of spy attacks and after the advice and wisdom of those who have taken the time to query us we have come to conclude that we have underestimated the importance of the cost of spying. To that end The Order of the Black Rose will now treat any act of spying as a declaration of hostilities by the offending alliance. This therefore implies that any action taken in response would be considered a defensive action. It would still be our fervent hope that like a mistaken tech raid on a member nation that such actions would be settled by apology and reparation but we recognize that any act of hostility that is not settled in this way would be a defensive response for treaty purposes. To that end the new treaty will be modified by the addition in #2 in the following fashion. 2. not engage in offensive war regardless of provocation.(offensive wars are ones not dictated by specific defensive treaty obligations or as a direct result of hostile action including spying.) The Order of the Black Rose wishes to thank all those who have generously provided their important input. We are not open to changing our values but recognize that we do not have all the wisdom in Digiterra and are always responsive to wisdom that improves the manner that we write treaties and do our work on Digiterra. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Good Methrage That item 11 is for peace terms that could be demanded in war only. I cannot define for all but as can be seen in our Terms of engagement we would not ask this. However we have seen examples in the past of OCC attacks that go way beyond reasonable and that would be in keeping with this portion of the treaty. It simply means that if we sign with an ally they will never ask for a permanent removal of a government member or their removal from an alliance. The preamble actually matters when reading the treaty. As to the discussion of what is aggressive please see the preamble. However. To be clearer. The ODP in the treaty does not EVER chain. If you declare war due to a ODP, MDP or other defensive treaty you are an attacker period. If you choose war then you choose war. So if we defend alliance A as per our ODP then no obligation arises with ANY of our other ODP treaty partners. Perhaps we were too subtle, war unless your alliance is attacked is a choice plain and simple. If we honour our obligation under our ODP then we cannot expect or demand any other ally to save us from our own choice of action. Good D34th I know you dislike ODPs we dislike careless and frequent use of cancellations of treaties. We think it is fairer to tell a friend they are wrong and you will not support their action and remain friends than the snivelling cancellation of treaties up to the MADP level when the wind shifts that are frequent in virtually every major conflict. We TRUST our ODP partners to continue to be friends and support us when we are right and let us know when we are wrong. We hope we have proven our own metal. Frankly if their were less pointless treaties and more allies that would tell their friends YOU ARE WRONG regardless of treaty type we would have less pointless wars and warfare would become a tool of diplomacy where we would great fellow warriors with pride at the end of a battle rather than the gutter sniping that so many of these conflicts produce. Too All Let me be clear #11 is to ensure our treaty partners express a very high level of respect for an alliances sovereignty by not allowing permanent government change and only in the absolute worst cases. I suggest that for further background http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79629 the principles expressed here are as true today as they ever were. Nothing changes. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Gentle Persons Excellent questions. #11 says a call for a government member to step down may never be a permanent request nor may they be forced out of an alliance period by a signatory.I believe many may check our terms of engagement for our last two conflict to understand our own position on this. Our current ODPs are not superceded and our treaty partners have been contacted directly earlier to consider upgrading to this treaty and are the only ones yet offered the chance to sign. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis PS Sorry for those looking for a TLDR there is none. It is a Pledge of Values that covers many items we hope it is actually worth reading.

Gentle Persons of Digiterra Peace having for the most part made a reappearance we felt it timely to unveil our thinking on the way we would move forward. Ruminations on the future approach of The Order of the Black Rose have led the Knights Council to conclude that the time is ripe for a review and restatement of the values that we believe in. We believe that we have proven in times of peace and times of war, that our integrity, discretion and support may be relied upon by our allies, militarily, economically and diplomatically. Our word is our bond and it is given to friends without the need to lock it down to the letter. As Digiterra has evolved, some alliances have chosen to remove the traditional bonds of formal treaty, others have worked vigorously to upgrade to tighter rules and formality in their treaty ties. The OBR is dedicated to upholding not just the word but the spirit of any agreement, be it ever so base as a mere handshake. The quality of the ally and their word is of far more value than the strict written word of a treaty that may be cancelled. Thus, for us, an ODP is far more valuable with those we trust than an MADP with those we are unsure of. This means that there is no need for more than an ODP to show our belief and trust in an ally. Formal treaties on Digiterra have all too often the shelf life of a Billy Ray Cyrus tune. They are fun to construct and sign but played more than once they lose any appeal. There are some very good and long standing treaties that have been honoured through thick and thin, and to those alliances that have done so regardless of affiliation we salute your proud effort. Sadly, more often even MADP’s are slyly gone around or outright cancelled at the hint of a troubling event. Worse, we have seen some alliances mindlessly follow the actions of friends or treaty partners into actions that are neither becoming nor fair so that they may say “WE honour our word”, or more insidiously “friends before pixels.” It is not valorous to support the actions of a friend or ally in an affair that is questionable or disagreeable. Supporting a friend is good, providing wisdom and disagreement is however the truly difficult and decent thing to do. Each war we have witnessed regularly degenerates into name calling, insults, and mind numbing debates about who is right and wrong and who was the aggressor. Let us clarify our position. If you initiate an attack on another alliance unbidden, you are the aggressor. This does not mean that you do not have a valid CB or reason. If this action causes anybody else to attack you, you are still the aggressor. You chose war, live with it. Giving up the ability to be an aggressor gives up a small tactical advantage. Principles come with a cost. Insults, flaming, OCC attacks or dating your mom may all be legitimate CBs, but you are still the aggressor. Casus Belli means justification, not necessity, for war. All of the above are annoying and vile but not a real reason for war. Slapping the person who insults you is gratifying and justifiable but staying your hand and trying to come to terms with your adversary is true courage. War is part of the system not all of the system. War should always be an option. We feel it should be the last option. Rogues are gutless and unimaginative little dweebs who deserve our loathing rather than applause. They bring nothing but pain for their own short comings. Tech raiding is institutionalized theft. Regrettably it is a part of the atmosphere of Digiterra and will not vanish. We do not support it, nor do we approve of it. This does not mean that others may not wish to explore that part of the texture of Digiterra; this makes it no less unsavoury for us. To each his own, it is far too often used as an excuse to turn and look the other way. There is no acceptable excuse, nor do we condone these actions. Political activism can be interesting and rewarding. Neutrality can be comforting and profitable. We feel that the political machinations of Digiterra are well handled by those who enjoy the process. We are certain the ranks of the Neutral need no further additions. For reasons we cannot understand, it is assumed that one cannot both retain objectivity and still care. We do. The winds of Digiterra buffet the Rosular Kingdom with the same force as it does others, and the dust disturbed bother us greatly. We watch the storms that blow across all Digiterra and will continue to do what we can, both in the light of day and the quiet back-rooms, to help make the Digiterran community a better place. Digiterra, for a great many, is neither the system of war nor economics. It is the relations between nations and, most importantly, the community within an alliance. The nature of what an alliance is has been debated endlessly with little agreement. For us however, when two or more band together under a common AA and make the effort to institute a community via a forum, wiki listing or IRC channel, then they ARE an alliance. Why is this important if we do not tech raid? The basis of greater Digiterra is community, and that manifests itself in alliances. Thus the destruction of, or constant harassment of, an alliance is unfathomable to us. Wars are not the only part of this game. However, if done right, with dignity and notice, and a legitimate understanding of fair play, it can build not only an individual alliance, but make friends of enemies. As can be seen by our terms of war, the Order believes that those who choose to engage in war should not profit from it, and should not seek any restitution that punishes an opponent while enriching themselves. There have been wars that have been fought to punish an aggressor or particularly nefarious action. Recompense, if offered and rejected early on, does not justify a long war for the purpose of punishing the opponent or enriching one’s own alliance. Penalties are only valid if used to punish egregious acts when the penalty is passed on to an uninvolved third party, otherwise it is just looting. Since community is the basis for Digiterra, then war booty that cripples an alliance or nation is nothing but petty childishness. We have seen the great cry of "its only pixels" used to justify ZIing of nations and hobbling of alliances. Yet it is those same people who gladly enhance their own pixels with captured loot and surrendered payments. So we ask … which is it? It cannot be both. In the past, we have looked at individual treaties as well as a common treaty. The time has come to hearken back to our past. We seek to ally with those who share similar beliefs. We do not disparage those who choose to approach life on Digiterra in a different fashion. That is their right and we hope they find that, over time, a more amicable way is far more enjoyable, Should some see our pledge and see it as a way forward we shall be most honoured. We thus provide the wording of our two Bilateral but standardized treaty types going forward. Pledge of Values We, the undersigned, will: 1. agree to an ODP with other signatories in the case of an attack as a result of an aggressive attack on them. This ODP is non-chaining and does not become effective if the Alliance chooses to engage in war via any type of treaty or any other reason. 2. not engage in offensive war regardless of provocation.(offensive wars are ones not dictated by specific defensive treaty obligations or as a direct result of hostile action including spying.) 3. not engage in spy operation. (Save in the specific in system methods during war only.) 4. not condone tech raiding. 5. not engage in PZI or EZI. 6. neither seek nor accept war reparations that exceed damages incurred. 7. never accept punitive war damages from the defeated. In the cases of particularly deplorable acts, punitive damages may be requested to go to an uninvolved third party. 8. never demand war reparations totaling to all victors an amount exceeding 25% of the tech level of the defeated alliance at the time of surrender or the tech equivalent of 50% of the aid slots of an alliance for a period of no greater than 4 months whichever is lesser and no more than a monetary equivalent of 50% of the aid slots of an alliance for a period no greater than 4 months. 9. not maintain war with an enemy who offers terms that either meets the losses suffered or the reparations outlined in #8. 10. honor the concept of community and alliance integrity. They shall never require disbandment, viceroyship or any other form of control or access to forums, IRC channels or government of the defeated alliance. 11. agree that signatories may require the standing down from government in the case of flagrant heinous acts by a government member for a term not to exceed four months. 12. never demand destruction of wonders or improvements in surrender terms. They shall never require the disbanding of troops below 40% level. 13. freely offer economic support to help rebuild a signatory in the event of an attack on that signatory. 14. always engage all nation leaders in public and private venues with courtesy, respect and dignity even if the views expressed are disagreeable. 15. treat all information that affects another signatory as private and vital to be transmitted to the effected alliance. 16. be encouraged to exchange wisdom and expertise as well as economic cooperation for the benefit of all. 17. maintain active embassies with other signatories and provide a privileged spot in their own diplomatic forums for other signatories. 18. always resolve differences in a private and confidential manner either through their embassies or IRC with other government members. 19. allow modification of this pledge with mutual consent of all signatories. Furthermore, all signatories agree that they may cancel their treaty obligations with 72 hours notice and an additional 72 hours of a non-aggression pact. These time frames are doubled for the Order of the Black Rose. Letter of Amity On Digiterra are many good alliances that have chosen paths that we find pleasing to our style. These alliances may not yet be our partners in a treaty or may due to their neutrality be unable to partake of a defensive treaty. It is however important from time to time to acknowledge our desire to share more than a friendly nod in the corridors of diplomacy. To that end we recognize the goodwill, friendship and shared values through this Letter of Amity. Signatories 1. Acknowledge a desire to further relations in a formal fashion. 2. Pledge special care in the positive discourse between members in all public venues. 3. Refrain from negative commentary or complaint in all public venues. 4. Agree to resolve all reasonable grievances in a private and cordial manner. 5. Will pursue broader social contact between members. 6. Open economic interests with each other 7. Share information or intelligence that is received that impacts the other. 8. Be open to enhancing the level of formal diplomatic relations where reasonable. 9. Refrain from any aggressive military action or spying efforts against the other. 10. Refrain from providing succour to an enemy of the other during war. 11. Will provide knowledge, advice and aid in reasonable measure as requested. 12. Maintain a formal active diplomatic post in the Alliance Forum of each other. Cancellation may be sadly accepted with 48 hours notice and a further 72 hours of NAP. Editted to improve the clarity of #2 of the PoV Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Good Titus Pullo I would be amused if it were not so sad. Our Good Page was specific before getting esoteric. Our ally thanked and our opponent thanked us.We have allies on both sides and have only gone to war with the specific opponent of our ally, so no we are not on a side I would say. So to recap our members are in favour , our ally is in favour and our opponent is in favour. Have I missed anybody. O yes you. I guess we will have to be content with those who are actually involved being happy. PS. I must apologize for my careless typo DIATRIBE this is I am sure the reason you are having trouble with this announcement. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis SlimJD33 For those of you saying that this is our peace offer, it is not, if they should fire again we fire again. ilselu1 GR thanks The Rosular Kingdom for it's continued support. bigwoody They're unprepared, the offensive shall be launched on Tuesday! In all seriousness, OBR have been classy opponents throughout this war, which is quite the accomplishment in a time where mot of the discourse we see is hostile. This has been true in public and private. Not to mention, they've taken our rather rigorous defense via nuclear means in stride, without complaint (few alliances have been this way in both public and private). Between that attitude and them managing to get our pre-war #2 nation to surrender without firing a shot, OBR is a group to be respected.

Good Titus Pullo I can only ascribe the degree of accuracy to your arguement that this statement deserves by pointing out that if you believe our friend Sal Paradise is one of our members then the rest of your tiatribe is in equal measure accurate.. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Titus Pullo' date='18 March 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1268968568' post='2229887'] The honorable move would have been to have actually gotten together with your opponent and negotiated/announced peace. This is not only an insult but an act of cowardice. OBR, I am ashamed. [/quote] Gentle Persons First our good page was one of our warriors against TORN and is still in range and though he shall be put through more training in the art of peace I shall say that if one has earned the right to speak it is one who indeed fought for our allies. I would not have further commented but the above quote surely caught my attention. I am sure it is my lack of understanding of the English language. When one remains on guard of ones allies risking being attacked while not attacking an already overwhelmed enemy it is cowardice but obtaining peace thus preventing any possibility of attack on us is not. Please feel free to explain this incongruity to me as my grasp of the concepts and English language must be suspect. As for those who disagree with this well that was bound to happen I am pleased that the Leader of GR has understood we still have his back. We are not on a side in this conflict we are here only to honour our treaty. I would have thought sneaking off to peace leaving our ally still at war would have been considered cowardice but perhaps I was unclear. It would however be helpful if those who disagree with this move because a ceasefire instead of peace is cowardice and those who believe a ceasefire is a de facto white peace would converse. It is all too confusing for one such as I to understand. Are we ate peace or simply cowards for not being at peace? It would really help our planning if you let us know. This war has produced a strong degree of animus sadly when we try to keep some sense of chivalry in this conflict even that act is used to heap scorn all around. We shall never please all but since our ally is content and they are all we fought for then we shall try to do better in future for the rest of you. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Gentle Persons To clarify not all members of our military in the Rosular Kingdom are out of range by any measure otherwise this would be a pointless gesture. This is not a de facto White Peace it is an "in facto" Ceasefire. No peace has been offered, requested or accepted. With a great deal of hard work, measured words and a setting aside of animosity there may well be a peace in the not too distant future for all. We continue to stand by our ally until peace is achieved and continue to respect our opponent and hope they will accept this gesture as a measure of the honour that they showed us both on the battle field and in the negotiating room. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Gentle Persons [b]Notification of Unilateral Ceasefire[/b] The Order of the Black Rose engages in alliance war only to protect herself and those whom we call friend and ally. To this end when war came unbidden to our friends and allies in the Greenland Republic they called upon us through our treaty. We honored this request by declaring a defensive war against TORN. TORN fought us in numerous conflicts with humor and honor. Nuclear weapons were exchanged in almost all conflicts and significant damage was received and given by both sides. TORN has conducted their public discourse with us as well as private discourse with grace. There was and is no animus from us resulting from this exchange. The Order of the Black Rose, as per our Terms of Engagement, sought neither restitution nor terms from our opponent,that remains unchanged. We will not seek a separate peace from our ally who has other specific terms in mind. We will not leave our post at their side should TORN re-engage. However since TORN is in no wars with GR and since the last offensive war from TORN on GR expired Feb 7, 2010 we cannot justify continued hostility against this alliance. We never seek the reduction of an alliance nor do we profit from our duty in war. We sought earlier on to remove TORN from the conflict as is our duty. We were regrettably unable to accommodate agreeable terms for TORN and her adversaries and thus maintained our conflicts with them. However, the time has passed for us to support such operations. To be very clear, this is a cessation of offensive operations; a state of war still exists and will continue until peace with GR is achieved. Should TORN take any offensive action against GR then this ceasefire will be null and void. That would of course, sadly, mean a resumption of hostilities. We have striven to achieve an honorable peace for those involved and will continue to do so. It is sadly a case where both sides believe that they are honorably supporting their allies and the lines drawn are too far apart right now to be bridged. That is valorous but lamentable. We cannot support further hostilities at this time when the cause of our involvement is long past and peace should now be the goal. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis For the Knights Council Order of the Black Rose

Gentle Persons I have watched this debate her and in the alliance thread. THis is NOT to call out anyone and I chose PC only because they are currently upholding the validity of the info on wiki. From the Wiki Page Current unedited recently Government Leader: TwistedRebelDB47 Right Hand Man: Derwood1 Internal Affairs: Citizenkane God of War: Pooks Foreign Affairs: Jgator, Emperor Brutus Financial Guru: Mishi Hybrids: Mushi, Don Fernando, Syrik Master of the Domain: Banslam From the PC Forum posted as of Jan 15, 2010 Leader of the Poison Clan TwistedRebelDB47 - Master Killer Deputy leader Derwood1 - The Dealthstalker Scorpion Internal Affairs: Mishi - Gila Monster Finance: Han - He who has no title yet Trades: Jensofthedesert - The Shark Foreign Affairs: CitizenKane - The Computer jgator - The Stonefish EmperorBrutus - He who has no title yet Domain: Banslam - The Platypus Is differneences Is not even listed. Can we please stop this nonsensical debate. Respectfully Dame Hiem Themis

Good Sir Knight I am pleased to say that ODN's loss was the absolute gain of the Order of the Black Rose. I am pleased to reflect and honour your contribution to Digiterra and the Order. For better or for worse it was you who made me feel my path was with the Order for that I will be always grateful , (other maybe less so). :lol: You were and are a beacon of how one may display dignity and integrity and yet still get the job done. I am not one to hail but shall in this case make an exeption. Hail Sir Neboe Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Good Im317 We have spoken privately with our Treaty partner TOP. They are very well aware of our position and have been gracious in their acceptance and shown respect for that opinion. We acknowledge their reasons for their actions. All our treaties contain very long periods of cancellation so we do not feel compelled to follow the common tradition of cancelling on a friend at the first sign of conflict or cancel during a war. We do not dictate or always agree with everything our friends or treaty partners do. Thus we support them when we feel they are right and respectfully disagree and do not support them if we disagree. I do hope your friends will show you always the same courtesy and respect going forward. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

The Order of the Black Rose once again finds itself watching a war with friends on both sides involved. We regard our treaties regardless of perceived importance by others as vital to who and what we are. We do not sign for advancement or protection but to recognize a special friend of another alliance. We do not nor ever will support aggressive attacks. We shall not engage a treaty partner in war but will also not allow a treaty partner who has not chosen the path of war for themselves to be attacked. As our partner under the Concordium Sed Nobis The Greenland Republic has been attacked we find ourselves honor bound to engage a noble alliance. To that end we serve public notification to our foe, The Order of Righteous Nations, of this declaration of war. This declaration has been sent directly to The Order of Righteous Nations, before its' public release, as suits our sense of responsibility to friend as well as foe. We look to engage you in combat upon the field of honor without rancor or dislike. It is a sad duty a soldier must perform when faced with an admirable foe, but it is one that our opponent has honorably taken up with due notice of our treaty. So to them we raise our lances in salute and brace our shields to receive them. The Order is Old warriors who strap on their armor with weary sadness for they know all too well the cost and pain of what they must do. The Order of the Black Rose will conduct her combat with due respect to those that we fight. We do not engage in tawdry propaganda, we do not vilify a foe that fights with honor to their obligation, nor make light of the causes on both sides. We reserve the right to use all means of warfare in the attempt to end this conflict as soon as possible, but we will not engage an opponent with means unbecoming of that which opposes us. For us there are no enemies, simply foes during this conflict. To that end we make the following pledge: Once we engage, the following rules of war and peace apply whether we triumph or falter. 1. We fight for honor as do our opponents. The Order will neither seek nor accept reparations. 2. The Order will work to see no PZI from others and reject for ourselves any PZI to any who fight this war with honor. 3. This Order will accept the responsibility to rebuild friends on either side of the conflict upon its conclusion. 4. Combat is a serious affair to be carried out with respect and dignity. The Order will not allow its members to engage in trolling, false propaganda, or vilifying any honorable combatant in either camp. Such actions are unbecoming and not worthy of good soldiers. 5. The Order shall not engage in a war without supplying public notification. The Order fights to protect and not to gain from aggression. Dignity and respect, though diminished on Digiterra, shall be observed. 6. Sanctions are reserved for the most egregious of offenses. They shall not be employed in the fair execution of war. 7. Upon the resolution of conflict, those of both sides who showed the friendship and dignity we admired before will find our halls open. We will welcome old friends who fought on either side to the new tomorrow and to renewed bonds of friendship. There is no way to seek battle with happiness or pleasure. We can but seek to comport ourselves always with the dignity and honor that speaks well of our allies and opponents alike, With sadness and pride. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis For Sir Winslow Knight Protector The Order of the Black Rose The Knights Council

Gentle Persons It is not my normal want to engage in the naming of such events however I believe there is a very clear idea of posted values. We have the \M/ side, rebels and folk heroes, outlaws to others. We have the NpO side arguing for community standards and law and order. From the novels and news of the Old West then The Great North Polar Raid featuring the \M/ Gang and of Course the NpO Posse. Like the times of the Great North Field Raid and the James/Younger Gang ones support and belief were divided by a very split sense of the morality of the actions on either side. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Gentle Persons This most recent series of events has allowed many to spill bile and revile many alliances and individuals. We are also treated to innumerable posts about the most hated individuals or alliances. Sometimes we get to enjoy nonsensical hail fest about the greatness of our own alliances or the outstanding virtues of our treaty partners.The obviousness of these things being ignored in the lust for personal affirmation. I would like to try a slightly different path. I believe that most respect their own alliances or why would you be in it?. I feel certain that most trust and appreciate the treaty partners ones alliance holds, or why would one be treatied? The "enemy" are always evil, unmannered and less than honourable. These being truths of OWF lets perhaps step away for a moment. I will be posting no poll but would ask for honest unvarnished opinions. Let me re-state that word "opinions". It is possible to disagree with an opinion and to have a very different opinion but as an opinion it cannot be wrong. It is an opinion. What I would ask is that each person who posts name a single or two alliances no matter how large or small that they respect for their actions and principles both in and/or out of war. Now here is the catch, you may not name the OBR (I do not make this post to pat our own back) , you may not name your own alliance (see the obvious reason above), you may not name a treatied ally( again obvious reason above). You are to name those alliances that you have admired from afar, perhaps even fought, one you would be disappointed to have to see on the other side of a conflict. Civility, please remember people are giving opinions, I have seen too many wars and conflict with friends on either side and slowly the politeness wanes and rancour and incivility takes over please lest try to avoid this. After pulling back from the brink of a major war and with that sad possibility still hanging in the air I would like to hear some positive views of those you have not yet had the chance to befriend. Flaming of someone's choice might be tempting but please for once can we simply give our choice and reasons without the need to belittle anyone else. If you do not like a choice someone make feel free to NOT choose the same but let them reveal an honest insight without fear of being demeaned by someone with a different opinion. All to often we find our selves in our own political cocoon and I for one welcome the opportunity to learn the good about many alliances large and small we may not have heard of or had the opportunity to interact with. After a time I shall be pleased to compile this information and perhaps a small reward if one particular alliance or alliances seem to fulfill for a large segment the place of respect. TL:DR Announce an alliance you respect and the reason other than your own, an ally or OBR. Celebrate the positive on Digiterra.. Keep it Civil and respect others opinions please. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Gentle Persons The Order of the Black Rose was founded based on the belief that values can overcome differences. It has become politically correct to wish all a happy holidays. Christmas is both a religious and secular holiday. All good people regardless of faith or non-faith can use a reminder of a time of year dedicated to the sharing of the blessing we all have. Whether it is the religious or secular aspect of this season you prefer may the truth of values, friends, and family permeate all you do at this time of year and always. Take time to reflect on the gifts we have received through out the year and remember to share a little of that. Take the chance to give your self the greatest gift of all and share with a stranger some of what has been received. Take the opportunity to remember that family no matter how distant we may become is still strength to have. Celebrate the season as you may refer to it but remember we have more in common than we have differences. So from the whole Rosular Kingdom we wish you all, health, hope and happiness in this Christmas season and throughout the year. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis