Hime Themis

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1327643483' post='2907991'] Kaitlyn and Van Hoo chose to involve the community in this OOC matter. As such, discussion of the issue does not, in any fashion, constitute an OOC attack. [/quote] Good Crymson As I have stated please look you will note that THEY never posted a thread here on any of your forums. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1327643188' post='2907984'] The one world war you actually entered you intentionally didn't declare on nations in your range DESPITE announcing the DoW. You're not fooling anyone. [/quote] Good Zoomzoomzoom Not exactly accuarte since we were involved in TWO world wars and there were NO nations in my nation range the last ime. Howver you are correct that we do not tend to declare war often. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1327642901' post='2907978'] Understand this then, Hime Themis. I agree with you in principle, that OOC and IC should be kept separate. I have no intention of letting anyone from this game intrude on my real life, but on the other hand I also do not bring my real life into this game. In this case however, as Crymson pointed out, we have strong reason to believe we were manipulated emotionally, and something like that will garner a backlash. If you bring your real life into the game based on a lie, and get caught on it, you can surely expect consequences. Trying to turn it around on us and lump this scenario in with other OOC incidents in the past is being disingenuous and as others have indicated, shows a lack of understanding of the situation. However if you wish to continue beating your chest publicly condemning us, go right ahead. Anyone who wishes to take the time to understand better is welcome to visit the MK forums or IRC to discuss this with us. [/quote] Goood Seerow I understand your frustration but might I suggest you all review who posted the threads about this incident. The venom is direct at those who never actually posted on these forums or your forums about the incident. As for lumping together, no it is not disingenuous. I believe now and have posted in the past that I NEVER believe that OOC attack regardless of circumstance are warranted. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='uaciaut' timestamp='1327642777' post='2907974'] It came with being rogued on so many times because staying forever in peace mode would be impossible, lol. Nice try though. [/quote] Good Uaciaut I see so fighting regularly is immaterial just so long as you are the one to declare war? That is not our style sorry. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Artigo' timestamp='1327642318' post='2907964'] When was the last time you declared an offensive war? [/quote] Good Artigo Sorry we tend to handle our diplomacy in a slightly different manner. Our alliance tends to defend those attacked rather than declaring a preempt. Others choose a different FA path and that is just fine. Digiterra would be all the poorer if all played the diplomatic game the same way. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Blacky' timestamp='1327641806' post='2907957'] Hime Themis I'm one of the involved parties or as you accused me of being a "prepubescent" something or other. If you would like to discuss the situation in further detail visit the MK boards and drop me a PM. Because right now to anybody who has any semblance of understanding of the situation you come off as being completely and utterly ignorant, and short of actually crossing the OOC line and explaining why I can't help you understand. Furthermore in the future it's probably not a good idea to make a thread like this when you aren't privy to the details of the situation. Also just to adumbrate what others have already said this isn't a rogue attack, it was sanctioned by both alliances and we're just clearing up a ghost on their AA. [/quote] Good Blacky It is also possible I know far more than you do. It is still an OOC attack which really has no place on Digiterra. As for your ghost claim since you switched AAs twice today I find that argument for your attacks in game on one involved directly in the RL incident to be ingenious. Do you all really wish to discuss the level of posting that embassies are subject too on the MK forums. This is simply a spillage to the normal Digiterran forums and that really has no value to Digiterra. Your own forums feel free to run as you wish but try to keep these forums at a slightly more elevated level. I also note zero PMs to me so if you really wanted to discuss this in private you could have done so but instead you came to this thread which named no -one to defend your actions for the masses. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1327641360' post='2907950'] You posted, in an OOC forum, about how anybody taking part in acts you find offensive is clearly immature and prepubescent. Am I personally offended by this? No, I think it's funny. Primarily because your words are so hypocritical. Your way of protesting perceived OOC attacks is by making further OOC attacks, quite a vicious cycle, is it not? Still, I can't help but feel you greatly misunderstand the situation as a whole, casting a negative light upon our feelings and reactions. I would once again urge taking this to a slightly more private area to discuss it further. I'd be happy to debate this with you via IRC, or you can post publicly in the restaurant if you still want your ~callout~ to be visible to general public. [/quote] [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1327641772' post='2907952'] Themis, you're a hell of a nice guy, but I've got to agree with Zoom on this one. There are those of us who feel that our sympathies were manipulated; more, there are those who feel that the actual efforts they put forth were done as a result of statements given in poor faith. They have the right to know if such is the case. [/quote] Gentle Persons I understand your concerns and had any of you challenged my in private I would have been able to let you know of my own concerns. Those were expressed weeks ago to the appropriate individuals IN PRIVATE. I have posted similar concerns before and as I clearly stated this is not the first nor the last time this kind of posting will occur. I am not singling out this particular set of posts but rather the alarming trend of RL OOC attacks that is not helpful or productive to THIS world. You feel manipulated feel free to state that directly and privately to those you feel have hurt you. When YOU take it public expect those of us who disagree with this sort of attack to respond as you have in public. There is never a need for this and I do not feel that is a matter of opinion it is a matter of courtesy that we seem to ignore because we are hidden behind an electronic shield to our own identity. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Artigo' timestamp='1327641390' post='2907951'] HAHAHAHAHA Lettuce be real tea, this is Hime Themis we are talking about. [/quote] Good Artigo You are a firm fighter and while I may not agree with your particular posting style I do believe your insult may be somewhat misplaced. Number of Soldiers Lost in All Wars.847,267 Attacking + 2,131,414 Defending = 2,978,681 Casualties Casualty Rank:Ranked #675 of 15,130 Nations (4.46%) These sad losses did not come about by paper cuts. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1327640357' post='2907931'] Makes post about people using OOC insults by making OOC insults directed at those making OOC insults. Stay classy. Good Seerow I am not calling these people to account for their RL actions, I clearly stated that their posts on THIS and other forums indicates a degree of mean spirited childishness that will not serve them well in the Real World. If this is a concept you do not agree with that is your choice but when your crew pulls this little stunt of abusive post do not expect everyone will jump up to applaud this behaviour. Please tell me you guys seem perfectly capable of dissing out even OOC abuse but your egos are so concerned that you bring in the troops when someone does not hail your poor behavior? Stay classy. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1327640224' post='2907926'] So, the community needs to stop insulting people and being mean OOC. Also, we are... >In need of growing up >Spoiled 5 year olds >In need of reaching puberty Because we don't agree with you. Oh, and don't forget, words hurt. [b]wat[/b] [/quote] Good Hereno If you believe that OOC insults are correct in a situation of a RL Crisis then I must conclude the answer to all your questions is Yes. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='brickyard' timestamp='1327640139' post='2907923'] Spends thousands of real dollars on fake nation. Tells others not to cross IC/OOC line. Never change. [/quote] Good Brickyard So supporting the enterprise of Digiterra so others including my friends and you can play for free is a foreign concept to you? Do you really imagine that the world is here because you are her?. Time to recognize that your free ride is here because some of us believe there is a necessity to insure there is a reason for Digiterra to continue. If you do not even appreciate that your "free" fun at least comes with the responsibility to act in a civil and fair manner to the RL persons then you will be terribly disappointed when the Real World does not give itself to you without effort and positive input. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1327639612' post='2907913'] No thanks. Next time try not talking down to us. [/quote] Good Zoomzoomzoom If one falls to the lowest level of discourtesy it is nigh on impossible to speak "Up" to someone. Personal attacks on the RL people due to a serious and painful RL situations should not require anyone to point out how truly vile that action is.......Sadly this degree of common sense and common courtesy apparently must be retaught to some. I would have thought that you would not have been one that required the reminder. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

Gentle Persons I dislike the pull of posting OOC and firmly believe that we should try as much as possible to maintain our IC style. However since there once again has come to Digiterra the need for some to cross the IC/OOC line by posting deliberately insulting and abusive comment about the RL people behind a truly tough and sad situation I think it may be time to once again remind our brethren that this kind of activity along with sudden rogue attacks on a nation as part of the abusive behaviour related to the RL issue that you are far beyond what is humorous or decent. Think please before you post or act. This is not the first nor last time RL will take a bite out our fellow nation leaders. Taking the opportunity, regardless of your like or dislike IC, to make fun of, insult or attack in game simply proves that you have a great deal of growing up to do. I am subject regularly to vulgar commentary and rude messages. While it is humorous how like spoiled 5 year olds some may be I have little concern that there is any useful malice attributed and put it down to large e- member envy. When it is directed, no matter how cutely covered, at a RL person I frankly despair for the continued existence of this realm. I would ask. please direct the venom in game and remember that no matter how long it takes you to reach puberty at some point you will learn that you too have vulnerabilities you would not wish belittled and that despite the cute poem, words have a devastating impact if they did not racist, sexist or prejudiced words would have no value to those who use them. Use that energy in your posting to add to the realm not diminish its character. When we abuse our privilege of enjoying our time on Digiterra it diminishes us all and takes us one step closer to the end. This I please ask of you. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1324745490' post='2885646'] Atheism is not a religion [/quote] Good Hereno That would be a debate worth having. Regardless of belief we wish that all find the joy of kith and kin be close by to heart and hearth. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[center][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Gentle Persons At this time of year many of diverse backgrounds and cultures enjoy celebrations that honour their own traditions and values. What is deemed to seperate us in fact binds us together. The celebration of life, values and friendship is universal as the following list will confirm. May you find in this season that which you find most dear to celebrate and please ensure that you share those feelings of warmth and friendship with all you meet. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis[/font][/size][/center] [center][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]The Order of the Black Rose[/font][/size][/center] [center][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]The Realm of the Rose The month of December is a time of many religious celebrations. In alphabetic order, by religion, they include: Some Atheists in the U.S. have begun to celebrate the Winter Solstice. This is the day of the year when the nighttime is longest, and the daytime shortest. Lately, it has been falling on DEC-21 or 22. However it can be as early as DEC-20 and as late as DEC-23. American Atheists and many local Atheist groups have organized a variety of observances at this time. Buddhists celebrate Bodhi Day (a.k.a. Rohatsu) on DEC-8, or on the Sunday immediately preceding. It recalls the day in 596 BCE, when the Buddha sat beneath a Bodhi tree -- a type of fig tree -- and is believed to have achieved enlightenment, thus escapeing the repeating cycle of reincarnation: involving birth, life, death and rebirth. A descendent of the original tree is the most important of four holy sites of Buddhism. Christians in the West celebrate Christmas on DEC-25, as the day when the Yeshua of Nazareth (a.k.a. Jesus Christ) was born. He is regarded by most Christians as a deity and savior of humanity. The Eastern Orthodox churches currently celebrate Christmas on DEC-25 according to the Julian calendar, which is JAN-07 in the more commonly used Gregorian calendar. It is not actually the date of Jesus' birthday. That probably happened in the spring or fall. Its origin can be traced to an ancient Roman Pagan celebration called Saturnalia. It was a commemoration of the dedication of a temple to the God Saturn. Saturnalia was originally celebrated as a one day celebration on DEC-17. It became so popular that it was expanded to seven days. This celebration was picked up by the followers of Mithraism where it became the Feast of Sol Invicta, (the Unconquered Sun). It started on DEC-25 of the year 274 CE. Jews celebrate Hanukkah, (a.k.a. Chanukah; "Feast of Dedication" and "Festival of Lights"). This is an 8 day observance which recalls a miracle in the Jerusalem temple during a war fought by the Maccabees in the cause of religious freedom. Temple candles only had enough oil to burn for a single day. Yet they burned for eight days. Jews light candles on a menorah -- two on the first day, three on the second, to nine on the eighth day. Between 1996 and 2008, the first day of Hanukkah fell, or will fall, between NOV-30 and DEC-26. Followers of Kemetic Orthodoxy celebrate the Day of the Return of the Wandering Goddess. This religion is a recreation of the faith of ancient Egypt, observed since about 4500 BCE This day celebrates the return of the Goddess Hathor to her father Ra and the healing of their relationship. It is held on the Winter Solstice Muslims' holy days are fixed to the lunar calendar. On successive years, the days migrate about ten days earlier as viewed on the Gregorian calendar. Id al-Adha (a.k.a. the Feast of Sacrifice or Day of Sacrifice) occurs during the 12th lunar month of the Islamic year. This immediately follows the Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca). It recalls the day when Abraham intended to follow the instructions of God, and sacrifice his son Ishmael. It is an unusual ocurrence to have two Id al-Adha holy days during one year; it happens only about three times each century. Some Native Americans and Aboriginal groups elsewhere in the world also observe the Winter Solstice. They associate different beliefs and rituals with it. For example, the Hopi tribe celebrations are "...dedicated to giving aid and direction to the sun which is ready to 'return' and give strength to budding life." Their ceremony is called Soyal. It lasts for 20 days and includes "prayerstick making, purification, rituals and a concluding rabbit hunt, feast and blessing..." 1 Nova Romans (a.k.a. Romana) celebrate Saturnalia, a seven day feast starting on DEC-17. 1,2 Romana are Neopagans who worship the ancient Gods of Rome and who celebrate the ancient Roman holy days. Wiccans and some other Neopagans celebrate Yule at the time of the Winter Solstice. Some may celebrate the Sabbat (one of eight days of celebration) on the evening before, at sunrise on the morning of the solstice, or at the actual time of the astronomical event. Zoroastrians observe Zartusht-no-diso on DEC-26, "the day in the sacred calendar when worshippers remember the death anniversary of Zarathustra. Special prayers are recited and a visit is paid to the Fire Temple as a mark of remembrance." 5 Also, in ancient times, Druids and followers of the Pagan and Polytheistic religions of Greece, Rome, and other countries held celebrations at or shortly after the Winter Solstice. Some Neopagans have recreated these religions and are following them today. [/font][/size][/center] [center] [/center] [center] [/center] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Andean</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inti_Raymi"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Inti Raymi[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: Festival of the Sun in [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quechua_language"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Quechua[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"], winter solstice festival in areas of the former [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Inca[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] empire, still celebrated every June in [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cusco"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Cusco[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"].[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Buddhist</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_Day"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Bodhi Day[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 8 December - Day of Enlightenment, celebrating the day that the historical Buddha (Shakyamuni or Siddhartha Guatama) experienced enlightenment (also known as Bodhi).[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Celtic</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice#Mean_Geimrech_.28Celtic.29"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Winter Solstice[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 21 December-22 December – midwinter[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Chinese</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Signature of the [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Republic_of_China"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Constitution of the Republic of China[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] ([/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Taiwan[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]): 25 December - a secular national holiday, which due to its date is celebrated in some respects like [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Christmas[/size][/font][/url] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Christian</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advent"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Advent[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: four weeks prior to Christmas.[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Saint Nicholas[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]' Day[/size][/font][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 6 December[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Eve"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Christmas Eve[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 24 December[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Christmas[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 25 December[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasia_of_Sirmium"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Anastacia of Sirmium[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] Feast Day[/size][/font][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 25 December[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Days_of_Christmas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]12 Days of Christmas[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 25 December through 6 January[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Stephen"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Saint Stephen[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]'s Day[/size][/font][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 26 December[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_John_the_Evangelist"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Saint John the Evangelist[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]'s Day[/size][/font][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 27 December[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Innocents"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Holy Innocents[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]' Day[/size][/font][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 28 December[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_I"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Saint Sylvester[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]'s Day[/size][/font][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 31 December[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Night"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Watch Night[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: 31 December[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Basil"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Saint Basil[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]'s Day[/size][/font][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: 1 January (Christian Orthodox) In Greece, traditionally he is the [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Christmas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Father Christmas[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] figure.[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Germanic</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C5%8Ddraniht"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Mōdraniht[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: or Mothers' Night, the Saxon winter solstice festival.[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Jewish</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Hanukkah[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: Starting on 25 [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kislev"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Kislev[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] ([/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Calendar"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Hebrew[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]) or various dates in November or December ([/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Gregorian[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]) - eight day festival commemorating the miracle of the oil after the desecration of the Temple by [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Antiochus IV Epiphanes[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] and his defeat in 165 [/size][/font][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]BCE[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Persian</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalda"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Yalda[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: The turning point, [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Solstice"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Winter Solstice[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] (December 21). As the longest night of the year and the beginning of the lengthening of days, Shabe Yaldā (Persian: یلدا) or Shabe Chelle (Persian: شب چله) is an Iranian festival celebrating the victory of light and goodness over darkness and evil. 'Shabe yalda' means 'birthday eve.' According to Persian mythology, Mithra, the sun god, was born at dawn on the 22nd of December to a virgin mother. He symbolizes light, truth, goodness, strength, and friendship. Herodotus reports that this was the most important holiday of the year for contemporary Persians. In modern times Persians celebrate [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalda"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Yalda[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] by staying up late or all night, a practice known as 'Shab Chera' meaning 'night gazing'. Friends and family gather to feast and read poetry. [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliomancy"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Bibliomancy[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] may be practiced with the poetry of [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafiz_Shirazi"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Hafiz[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]. Fruits and nuts are eaten, especially pomegranates and watermelons. The red color of these fruits invokes the crimson hues of dawn and symbolizes Mithra.[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Roman</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Saturnalia[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: the Roman winter solstice festival[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_Natalis_Solis_Invicti"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Dies Natalis Solis Invicti[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] (Day of the birth of the Unconquered Sun): late Roman Empire - 25 December[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Sikh</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Gobind_Singh"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Guru Gobind Singh[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurpurab"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Gurpurab[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"], birthday of the Guru Gobind Singh, generally falls on December or January.[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Slavic</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_New_Year"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Old New Year[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] includes a winter ritual of strolling and singing that was later incorporated into the [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_carol"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Christmas carol[/size][/font][/url] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malanka"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Malanka[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] caps off the festivities of the [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Christmas[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] holidays[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Secular</SPAN>[/font][/b] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Thanksgiving[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: The celebration of the early colonization of the [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]United States[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] and the camaraderie of the settlers and the [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Native Americans[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]. Occurs on the fourth Thursday in November. In Canada, second Monday in October.[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamenhof_Day"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Zamenhof Day[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: (15 December) - Birthday of [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Zamenhof"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Ludwig Zamenhof[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"], inventor of [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Esperanto[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]; holiday reunion for Esperantists[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Festivus[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: (23 December) - Holiday celebrating the season without the pressures or [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercialism"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]commercialism[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] of the other holidays. At first a family holiday, later publicized on the [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinfeld"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Seinfeld[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] television show, now celebrated independently.[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HumanLight"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]HumanLight[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: (23 December) - Humanist holiday originated by the New Jersey Humanist Network[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaid-e-Azam"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Quaid-e-Azam[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]'s Day[/size][/font][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: (25 December)[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malkh-Festival"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Malkh-Festival[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: (25 December)[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Boxing Day[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: (26 December) - Gift-giving day after Christmas.[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Kwanzaa[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: (26 December - 1 January) - [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Africanism"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Pan-African[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] festival celebrated in North America[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulefest"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Yulefest[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"], [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwinter_Christmas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Midwinter Christmas[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] (around late June or July) - Australian New Zealand winter 'Christmas/Yuletide' (Although this is sometimes celebrated in the USA, where celebrations generally begin on [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_July"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]4th July[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"].[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Eve"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]New Year's Eve[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: (31 December) - Last day of the [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Gregorian year[/size][/font][/url] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogmanay"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Hogmanay[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: (Night of 31 December - Before dawn of 1 January) - Scottish New Year's Eve Celebration[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Day"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]New Year's Day[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: (1 January) - First day of the Gregorian year[/font][/size] [b][font="Times New Roman"]Winter festivals in popular culture</SPAN>[/font][/b] [font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Note: The festivals listed here have been created by popular culture. Many [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]parody[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] Christmas, and are not traditional celebrations.[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chrismahanukwanzadan&action=edit&redlink=1"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Chrismahanukwanzadan[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: This is the modern-day merging of the holidays of Christianity's Christmas, Judaism's Hanukkah, African-American holiday of Kwanzaa, and Islamic Ramadan.[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Festivus[/b]: in the TV series [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinfeld"]Seinfeld[/url][/i]: An alternative event for those who prefer to avoid normal holiday expectations. "Festivus, for the rest of us".[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Flying Spaghetti Monster[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] Holiday[/size][/font][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: Around the time of Christmas, Hanukkah, and Kwanzaa, [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarians"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Pastafarians[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] celebrate a vaguely-defined holiday named "Holiday", which doesn't take place on "a specific date so much as it is the Holiday season, itself". Because Pastafarians "reject dogma and formalism", there are no specific requirements for the holiday.[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Snowflake Day[/b]: The Secular and politically correct holiday from the tv show [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clone_High"]Clone High[/url][/i], when in 2002, the United Nations declared that all exclusive Winter holidays, including Christmas, Chanukah, and Quanza, should be abolished in favor of the all inclusive Snowflake Day. A day of celebrating snow and spices and the best dance known to mankind, the Cabbage Patch. On Snowflake Day, Snowflake Jake, the Spice Pirate, launches his spice cannonballs at the holiday's symbol of peace and celebration, the Target. Lamb tacos are eaten.[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctrl%2BAlt%2BDel_(webcomic)#Winter-een-mas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Winter-een-mas[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: The annual week long celebration of video games and the people that play them.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_winter_festivals#cite_note-0#cite_note-0"][1][/url][/sup] Winter-een-mas is a holiday that takes place every year from January 25 to 31,[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_winter_festivals#cite_note-mertes20080124-1#cite_note-mertes20080124-1"][2][/url][/sup] but is also commonly celebrated for a month. The entire month of January constitutes the Winter-een-mas season, very similar to the "Christmas season", where people begin to gear up for the holiday, and get into the spirit of things.[sup][[i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/url][/i]][/sup] The holiday was started by the fictional character Ethan in webcomic [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctrl%2BAlt%2BDel_(webcomic)"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Ctrl+Alt+Del[/size][/font][/url][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_winter_festivals#cite_note-mertes20080124-1#cite_note-mertes20080124-1"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][2][/size][/font][/url][/sup][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] by Tim Buckley. Its stated goal is to "celebrate the joy of video gaming".[sup][[i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/url][/i]][/sup] Many gaming stores, such as EB Games, celebrate the holiday.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_winter_festivals#cite_note-mertes20080124-1#cite_note-mertes20080124-1"][2][/url][/sup][/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Wintersday[/b]: The annual winter holiday in the MMORPG [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars"]Guild Wars[/url]. This holiday is based on Christmas and Yule and one can obtain festival related drops from monsters and collect gifts in select cities. Special quests are available and at the end players may get Wintersday related headgear.[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Starlight Celebration[/b]: The annual winter holiday based on Christmas/Yule/winter solstice in the MMORPG Final Fantasy XI (aka [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFXI"]FFXI[/url]). Players can collect various holiday equipment, Mog house furnishings, fireworks, and food.[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Shoe[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] Giving[/size][/font][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: - quirky holiday famously invented on the show [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperdrive_(TV_series)"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Hyperdrive (TV series)[/size][/font][/url] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Freezingman[/b]: - 11 January - A [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Man"]Burning Man[/url] inspired event held in Colorado as a Winter Arts and Music Festival.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_winter_festivals#cite_note-2#cite_note-2"][3][/url][/sup][/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Feast of Winter Veil[/b]: December 15 to January 2 - holiday in the MMORPG [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft"]World of Warcraft[/url]. This holiday is based on Christmas. Cities are decorated with Christmas lights and a tree with presents. Also special quests, items and snowballs are available. It features 'Greatfather Winter' which is modeled after [Santa Claus]. [/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Day of the Ninja[/b]: December 5 - A counterpoint to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Talk_Like_a_Pirate_Day"]International Talk Like a Pirate Day[/url] founded by the creators of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Burger"]Ninja Burger[/url].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Kwansolhaneidmas[/b]: December 19 - an interdenominational holiday celebrated by people on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook"]Facebook[/url].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Feast of Frith[/b], in the TV series [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watership_Down_(TV_series)"]Watership Down[/url][/i].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Holiday Number 11[/b], in the TV series [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_(TV_series)"]Quark[/url][/i].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Xmas[/b], a twisted version of Christmas featuring a murderous Robot Santa in the TV series [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurama"]Futurama[/url][/i].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Refrigerator Day[/b], in the TV series [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaurs_(TV_series)"]Dinosaurs[/url][/i].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Life Day[/b], featured in [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Holiday_Special"]The Star Wars Holiday Special[/url][/i].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Slapsgiving[/b], a parody of thanksgiving made famous in the TV show [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_I_Met_Your_Mother"]How I Met Your Mother[/url][/i].[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostica"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Agnostica[/size][/font][/url][/b][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]: Agnostic winter festival created by Daren "Gav" Bleuel in the webcomic [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nukees"]Nukees[/url][/b] and celebrated by many of its fans.[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Alvistide[/b]: in the TV series [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealab_2021"]Sealab 2021[/url][/i].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Frostval[/b]: Adventure Quest, Dragonfable, AQworlds etc.[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Chalica[/b]: A holiday celebrated the first full week in December by some [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalists"]Unitarian Universalists[/url] to honor the Seven Principles of Unitarian Universalism.[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogswatch"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Hogswatch[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: a holiday celebrated on the fictional world of [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Discworld[/size][/font][/url][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]. It is very similar to the Christian celebration of [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Christmas[/size][/font][/url][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]St. Yorick's Day[/b]: Holiday celebration/even celebrated by the members of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zantarni&action=edit&redlink=1"]Zantarni[/url].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Xistlessnessmas[/b]: "anti-holiday" of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius"]Church of the SubGenius[/url] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody_religion"]parody religion[/url] usually held around the time of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas"]Christmas[/url], but it can be any time of the year; sometimes its name is shortened to "Xmas". Instead of a celebration, it is a period of mourning the fact that "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Day_(Church_of_the_SubGenius)"]X-Day[/url]" has not yet occurred and the "[url="http://www.poee.org/documents/Other_Religions/Church_of_the_SubGenius/Dictionary_of_the_Gods.htm#xists"]X-ists[/url]" have not yet arrived for the "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture"]Rupture[/url]" to the "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_saucer#In_popular_culture"]Pleasure Saucers[/url]" which will take all dues-paying "[url="http://www.poee.org/documents/Other_Religions/Church_of_the_SubGenius/Dictionary_of_the_Gods.htm#subgenii"]SubGenii[/url]" to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_planets_of_the_Solar_System#Trans-Neptunian_planets"]Planet X[/url] according to SubGenius [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology"]mythology[/url]. Xistlessnessmas is the exact opposite of the SubGenius holiday "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Day_(Church_of_the_SubGenius)"]X-Day[/url]".[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Crimbo[/b]: December 1 to December 25 - The season in which Uncle Crimbo (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) delivers toys, chocolates and disaster to the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Loathing"]Kingdom of Loathing[/url].[/font][/size] · [size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]Thanksgivoween[/b]. September 1 to January 1.[/font][/size] · [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decemberween"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Decemberween[/size][/font][/url][/b][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]: a parody of Christmas that features gift-giving, carol-singing and decorated trees. The fact that it takes place on December 25, the same day as Christmas, has been presented as just a coincidence, and it has been stated that Decemberween traditionally takes place "55 days after Halloween". [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestar_Runner"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Homestar Runner[/size][/font][/url]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][img]http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt360/KirkeMykonos/OBR_CourtChamber/OBR_Flag-1.jpg[/img] [img]http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u62/raczack/Cybernations/HouseBaratheonBanner.png[/img] [/font][/size][size="2"][font="Tahoma"]Gentle Persons[/font] [/size][font="Tahoma"][size="2"] When one finds a new friend, like House Baratheon, who also follows a similar FA path and who is structured in a similar fashion then one has to think if you might wish to be closer. Add the fact that their only two treaties are alliance whose opinions we respect, in Legacy and our good friends in Apparatus and it is a fair conclusion we would talk more. Having spent time together in embassies an on IRC we and House Baratheon easily confirmed that we both had much in common in values and a more mature style. Then we found an old friend was there and it was a done deal. We would like to show our respect for each other and announce what we hope to be a long and ever growing relationship. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis Letter of Amity Signatories 1. Acknowledge a desire to further relations in a formal fashion. 2. Pledge special care in the positive discourse between members in all public venues. 3. Refrain from negative commentary or complaint in all public venues. 4. Agree to resolve all reasonable grievances in a private and cordial manner. 5. Will pursue broader social contact between members. 6. Open economic interests with each other 7. Share information or intelligence that is received that impacts the other. 8. Be open to enhancing the level of formal diplomatic relations where reasonable. 9. Refrain from any aggressive military action or spying efforts against the other. 10. Refrain from providing succour to an enemy of the other during war. 11. Will provide knowledge, advice and aid in reasonable measure as requested. 12. Maintain a formal active diplomatic post in the Alliance Forum of each other. Cancellation may be sadly accepted with 48 hours notice and a further 72 hours of NAP. [/size][/font][font="Tahoma"][size="2"]For The Order of the Black Rose Queen AterAtra Sir Winslow, Knight Protector The Knights Council For House Baratheon, Roland Deschain, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm AlmightyHero, Hand of the King [/size][/font][font="Tahoma"][size="2"][u]Small Council [/u]Mila Amo, Master of Whispers Lord Augustine, Master of the House Mastermind, Master of Coin Avakael, Master at Arms David Stilicho, Grand Maester [/size][/font] [font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][/size][/font]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1323487686' post='2871630'] There is no good reason for ever individually surrendering in an alliance war. I don't care if you're bill locked and your grandmother is bleeding to death on the bathroom floor, if that's the case, why do you give a damn if your nation burns? [/quote] Gentle Persons This is the kind of revolting garbage that will eventually cause Digiterra to fail. I agree that if someone is trying to duck out on their alliance they are not taking their responsibilities seriously. However,"your grandmother is bleeding to death on the bathroom floor". Seriously grow up stop acting like a 14 year old punk who has never had to bear more responsibility than wiping your own face after stuffing it with food your mom cooked for you. Some of the people on Digiterra have real life problems and responsibilities well beyond your little mind to comprehend. We have in our alliance many who have suffered incredible loss and we do not put this Reality above the other because we actually all have the compassion and intelligence to live in both realms and care in both realms. This realm is fun and a retreat for many when fools choose to make fun of the OOC issues to puff up their little e-assets it makes we want to throw up. Have fun in your wars but try to actually remember their are real people behind the nation leader. We know this and most on Digiterra do as well. Try joining the human race. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[img]http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt360/KirkeMykonos/OBR_CourtChamber/OBR_Flag-1.jpg[/img] [img]http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc318/Pensare/Boards/Apparatus/ApparatusPeace.png[/img] Gentle Persons Have you ever had one of those days where there is something nagging at the back of your mind? You try and try to figure out what it might be, you go through the list, and talk to your friend to see what it might be. You go out to for dinner and a nice movie with your friend but you just cannot pin it down. As you lay your sleepy head down on your pillow it suddenly strikes you. You are so close and spend so much time with your friend you it never occurred to you. You forgot to renew your facebook status when they got married. The name changed but the friendship stays the same .Such a silly little thing but it is important that all your friends know that nothing has changed between the two of you. A simple nicety but very important, when the Amazon Nation merged with her close allies and protectorates the Order had a LoA with them. In all the confusion of moving in together and the constant communication we never officially transferred our LoA to our new old friends. So today we sign, renew, reiterate or just plain restate our friendship and love of Randalla and all of Apparatus. Letter of Amity Signatories 1. Acknowledge a desire to further relations in a formal fashion. 2. Pledge special care in the positive discourse between members in all public venues. 3. Refrain from negative commentary or complaint in all public venues. 4. Agree to resolve all reasonable grievances in a private and cordial manner. 5. Will pursue broader social contact between members. 6. Open economic interests with each other 7. Share information or intelligence that is received that impacts the other. 8. Be open to enhancing the level of formal diplomatic relations where reasonable. 9. Refrain from any aggressive military action or spying efforts against the other. 10. Refrain from providing succour to an enemy of the other during war. 11. Will provide knowledge, advice and aid in reasonable measure as requested. 12. Maintain a formal active diplomatic post in the Alliance Forum of each other. Cancellation may be sadly accepted with 48 hours notice and a further 72 hours of NAP.<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"> For The Order of the Black Rose Queen AterAtra Sir Winslow, Knight Protector The Knights Council For The Apparatus Randalla, Patroness King Ernie, Director Kerdor, General Elbryan, Chief Engineer Maximillian Thorton, Emissary Ezequiel, Propagandist Phaedron, Professor BigKif, Speaker of the Assembly<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

[quote name='Bones Malone' timestamp='1322450592' post='2854185'] That sounds pretty worthless. They can totally do that. It's just foolish and a waste of time. Looking at this Treaty of Amity (I'm sorry, I don't recognize 'letters' as binding agreements between organizations), all of the tenants outlined, articles one through twelve, are things that any alliance would do just because they're friendly with someone else. Why does it need to be codified? If you truly are friendly, then everything that was agreed upon in this treaty would be done anyways. The benefit of an actual treaty that matters isn't letting the other entity know that you have their back. They should know that already. The benefit comes in letting the world know that you have your friend's back. That way, when nations are plotting and conspiring and being regular Snidely Whiplash'es, they can look and see "Oh, better not attack X because Y is going to most certainly back them up." All I see from this treaty is "We agree to be friendly in general," which both parties already know and has zero effect on the world at large because it doesn't promise or require any kind of involvement at all. Just continued courteous behavior and the presumption that maybe if the cards are right one alliance will defend the other. Not every treaty has to guarantee involvement, I know. Just don't expect me to care about those that don't. The treaty was a waste of my time reading it, although it did give me something to be good and angry about for an hour or so. That was nice. So, cool? OBR throws around words like honor and respect in their announcements on Bob. I've been following this trend for a long time. This tells me that they are just content to sit on their perceived Shining City on a Hill and pass judgement on all of us sinners sitting down in the depths with our "no u!"'s and inter-alliance warfare and shady dealings. I do not appreciate being judged and I do not like your "Holier Than Thou" attitude. Do I enjoy respectful interactions with other alliances and nations? Absolutely. Do I participate in respectful interactions with other alliances and nations? As a general rule that I sometimes break, yes. Do I feel the need to brag about it every time my name appears on a treaty? Nope. So you can take your judgment somewhere else. I'm just fine living down here with the sinners. This 'treaty' gets no hails from me. Enjoy. [/quote] Good Bones Malone I shall try to contain my disappointment at your lack of a hail. I would ask you to note the number of hails I have ever expressed including for our own posts. That number would be zero. We felt it was fair and honest to let all know those alliance we feel close to it prevents misunderstandings and actions that might cause unexpected harm. It is the primary purpose on Digiterra of posting such treaties.. Please note the total number of treaties we have ever signed is 10 in over 6 years , your alliance has signed 9 in 8 months. I am sure you are justly proud of your treaties as you have posted them, we are equally proud of ours. You claim we use the word honour.We have fought wars based on the principles of defending a friend , we do not support aggressive wars.I am pleased to see that you adhere to the principles outlined however not all do and their restatement is to be clear what we do stand for.If all you see is a we are friendly then I am sorry you do not understand. There is a reason our top treaty is an ODP. Because that is all that in our opinion should ever be required. We have watched MDAPs vanish into thin air at the whiff of trouble our word is our bond. That is why we have stated BEFORE each war we have fought how we shall conduct ourselves in that war and what we shall accept for peace.(Nothing but an end to hostility against our friend) This is not judgement of others it is what we believe in. Let me quote a movie that describes our use. We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. I would ask why you sign treaties and post your own treaties if ( I don't recognize 'letters' as binding agreements between organizations).We do which is why we sign so few. What pray tell is the purpose then of Deinos signing any? If you choose to disregard our posts that is certainly your prerogative, I post our treaties in all our embassies and some feel the need to disparage them this does not relieve my duty to inform. I appreciate your argument but do not happen to agree. So if I may quote another favorite movie. [url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001304/"][i][color="#136cb2"]Judge Chamberlain Haller[/color][/i][/url]: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection. [i][url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000582/"][color="#136cb2"]Vinny Gambini[/color][/url][/i]: Thank you, sir. [i][url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001304/"][color="#136cb2"]Judge Chamberlain Haller[/color][/url][/i]: Overruled. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Confusion' timestamp='1322363201' post='2853201'] Their fights aren't exactly fights, but I rest my case Congrats to Sparta and OBR on a fine treaty. [/quote] Good Confusion I appreciate your sentiment. However I do seriously recommend you review your new alliances history. When we fought TORN they fought with honour and everything they had and caused us a great deal of damage and fought well. To suggest they didn't put up a :Fight" dishonours them as well as their efforts for their allies and our friends in TOP. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Confusion' timestamp='1322362540' post='2853186'] Alright, I'll be more specific. Why in the world do you sign treaties you have no intentions of fighting. [/quote] Good Confusion It may be new to you but not all treaties are about fighting and this one has no provision for defense. However since you are new to your Alliance I will give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you would like to discuss with your Alliance leadership our commitment to our treaties. I am sure they can fill you in since it would appear you neglected to review YOUR or OUR alliance history. I do thank you however for asking. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Confusion' timestamp='1322362228' post='2853181'] When does OBR plan to do something about it, gentle people?! [/quote] Good Confusion I would love to answer if I was a little more certain what you are asking? Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1322361764' post='2853164'] Reads like a PIAT/ODP. Is that a decent interpretation? [/quote] Good Varianz Closer to a PIAT with benefits. The LoA is a first step treaty that is designed to potentially upgrade. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis

[img]http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt360/KirkeMykonos/OBR_CourtChamber/OBR_Flag-1.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.cnsparta.com/forums/seals/flag.png[/img] Gentle Persons Digiterra is a place where one crosses paths with many alliances over time. Some become enemies some become friends. Others however seem to cross your path but for various reasons no direct connection seems to take place despite that fact that you often are at the same party and work in the same office. The Order of the Black Rose has met and worked with Sparta on various project literally for years. We have both worked to help unify black in our own ways. OBR through Dark Vows and trade circles and Sparta through NOIR yet despite this and a respect that is accorded the other for their commitment to these ideals we have never formally put to pen our names on the same document. That changes today. We have and continue to move in different circles but have maintained a cordial and open dialogue in our embassies for a long time. As we continue to build on this friendship we felt formalization would be nice. Letter of Amity Signatories 1. Acknowledge a desire to further relations in a formal fashion. 2. Pledge special care in the positive discourse between members in all public venues. 3. Refrain from negative commentary or complaint in all public venues. 4. Agree to resolve all reasonable grievances in a private and cordial manner. 5. Will pursue broader social contact between members. 6. Open economic interests with each other 7. Share information or intelligence that is received that impacts the other. 8. Be open to enhancing the level of formal diplomatic relations where reasonable. 9. Refrain from any aggressive military action or spying efforts against the other. 10. Refrain from providing succour to an enemy of the other during war. 11. Will provide knowledge, advice and aid in reasonable measure as requested. 12. Maintain a formal active diplomatic post in the Alliance Forum of each other. Cancellation may be sadly accepted with 48 hours notice and a further 72 hours of NAP. For The Order of the Black Rose Queen AterAtra Sir Winslow, Knight Protector The Knights Council For Sparta Tulak Hord- King of Sparta Lukapaka- King of Sparta Wilhelm the Demented- Ephor of Philoxenia Silent Spectre- Ephor of Lykoi DeathAdder- Ephor of Mesoa [font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][/size][/font]

[img]http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt360/KirkeMykonos/OBR_CourtChamber/OBR_Flag-1.jpg[/img] [img]http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9193/untitled4bl1.jpg[/img] Gentle Persons It is always pleasing to find friends with much in common. It is even better to find friends critiqued for the same reason you are. We have known the STA for a very long time and though we we moved in different circles we admired their ability to stand by their convictions and friends. We finally knew we must become closer when we watch three straight posts on the OWF by STA members denounced as being "Moralistic" So to those who label both the STA and OBR as Moralistic we can but say. [b][font="Georgia"]You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. [/font][/b] Respectfully Dame Hime Themis [font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Signatories 1. Acknowledge a desire to further relations in a formal fashion. 2. Pledge special care in the positive discourse between members in all public venues. 3. Refrain from negative commentary or complaint in all public venues. 4. Agree to resolve all reasonable grievances in a private and cordial manner. 5. Will pursue broader social contact between members. 6. Open economic interests with each other 7. Share information or intelligence that is received that impacts the other. 8. Be open to enhancing the level of formal diplomatic relations where reasonable. 9. Refrain from any aggressive military action or spying efforts against the other. 10. Refrain from providing succour to an enemy of the other during war. 11. Will provide knowledge, advice and aid in reasonable measure as requested. 12. Maintain a formal active diplomatic post in the Alliance Forum of each other. Cancellation may be sadly accepted with 48 hours notice and a further 72 hours of [/size]NAP.[/font] For The Order of the Black Rose Queen AterAtra Sir Winslow, Knight Protector The Knights Council For the Siberian Tiger Alliance Crown Prince Mishka of Tygaland, Supreme Chancellor Pezstar of Pezstaria, Chancellor Consilium Tigris Eregor of Garden Veraxyl of Rhinehard Conistonslim of Rikatta Jyrinx of Aquitaine