F15pilotX

This made me laugh.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1271105519' post='2257674'] The real humor would be if you [b]really[/b] couldn't see any strategic logic in it beforehand. And here I was thinking our position was obvious! [/quote]Who are you to be talking about strategic logic? Did you somehow skip over the hundreds of posts in this thread condemning your alliance's actions? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot; I guess you decided to use an RPG.

Grats ya'll.

Late, but whatever. Good to see peace. Grats to all. Poor show Grämlins.

Grats to Polaris and RoK, good stuff.

Sad to see, but I'm glad all of you will still have a home if you want one.

Good luck with the transition ya'll!

This makes me laugh.

[quote name='President Kent' date='09 March 2010 - 06:08 AM' timestamp='1268133211' post='2219150'] I'm always glad to see triumvirates done away with. Good luck on your continued restructuring. [/quote]This. Now I'm somewhat interested.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 03:53 AM' timestamp='1267433799' post='2209771'] Yes, because attacking them as a group is so much more commendable than attacking an individual. I believe that's what we call "racism". :| Edit: truth be told I have nothing against you, but I do have something against what you stand for: it conflicts with what I stand for. [/quote]If you go back and read my posts, you would see that I have not once attacked Sparta as an alliance; rather, I have attacked your behavior and actions. [quote name='Dictionary'][b]Racism[/b]: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. [/quote] Racism has absolutely nothing to do with this; that comment is ignorant, and given your intelligence, you should have known not to include that in your post. Well, I haven't exactly stated what I stand for in this topic, but I get your point. It's time for bed here, so I'm out for the night. It was fun.

[quote name='ratonbox' date='28 February 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1267394197' post='2208848']And again, I am sorry for this, because i know how awful it is to have to change all you related passwords, or make another email account, or setting up a new forum.[/quote]When the hackers also start messing with things completely unrelated to CN, it becomes more than a pain. No one thinks your smart comments are funny, so for all of our sakes, stop posting.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 03:21 AM' timestamp='1267431876' post='2209748'] Is this where I point out that it is, and that you're not having a friendly conversation? Because missing that was HUGE, dude. [/quote]Do tell, how is me arguing without ONCE personally attacking any of the people I have debated in this entire conversation [i]disgusting[/i]? I have made it a point to keep my posts quite civil; just because I differ in opinion is no reason for you to label my behavior as such. I can appreciate you disagreeing with me, and have no personal problem with you from that or anything else your alliance, but your claim against me is beyond ridiculous. Oh, and I was not referring to anyone here. I was referring to a private conversation elsewhere; sorry for the confusion.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 03:09 AM' timestamp='1267431207' post='2209745'] I'm glad you care so much about objective truth. [/quote]I'm not sure how much more objective one can get than basing their opinion off of the facts. In fact, did you know that I'm so biased, and hate Sparta SO much that I'm having a nice friendly conversation right now with one of your members right now? I know, my behavior is just disgusting.

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='01 March 2010 - 03:00 AM' timestamp='1267430619' post='2209741']I'll start giving information and perspective out when it's requested by someone who cares about the situation and not the semantics. [/quote]I'm glad you care so much about your alliance's reputation.

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='01 March 2010 - 02:51 AM' timestamp='1267430100' post='2209734'] Okay. So you have stated that it's your opinion and not fact. Anyone who isn't actively seeking to form/adapt their own opinion based on all the facts isn't worth the effort. Moving on. I will gladly answer questions for those of you who actually want to learn. [/quote]If you actually read my above posts, you would see that I based my opinion on the facts; the fact is (no pun intended) that those are no longer changing. What you have done is what you have done, thus there is no way to 'adapt' my opinion unless I ignore some of the aforementioned facts.

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='01 March 2010 - 02:43 AM' timestamp='1267429643' post='2209724'] Familiar with the concept of asking questions? You don't build your case on: We asked them to prove us wrong, and they didn't. Just sayin'[/quote] I didn't build my case on that; I built it on: I have my opinion [a negative one, from your perspective], and if you want to change it [not saying you do - though I would if I were you], then you must disprove it. Just sayin'

[quote name='Aurion' date='01 March 2010 - 02:35 AM' timestamp='1267429164' post='2209714'] [b]That's pretty difficult[/b] with a non-absolute positive. ...No accounting for taste I guess >_> [/quote] Agreed, though for different reasons. They must be better than my own cookies.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 02:25 AM' timestamp='1267428551' post='2209701']This coming from somebody wearing an NPO tag... you'll excuse me if I find it hard to take any of this seriously.[/quote]I'll admit, we screwed up massively pre-Karma. That, however, does not preclude the fact that thus far in the game, the NPO has had far more impact and success than Sparta; thus, I'm rather confused as to why my tag would make you not take me seriously. Am I not being clear and logical enough in my posts, or is it my horrendous grammar? This ridiculous idea of yours that ad-hominem arguments are actually valid and of any use needs to stop; really, how can you expect anyone to give your arguments any credit when you continue to use logical fallacies such as that? [quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='01 March 2010 - 02:33 AM' timestamp='1267428990' post='2209711']The ones that want all the sides to the story will find them. [/quote] I want only the truth. Since I believe I have it, having seen the facts, it is up to you to change my mind.

[quote name='wolfbain' date='01 March 2010 - 02:23 AM' timestamp='1267428399' post='2209697'] to counter on behalf of my alliance, Sparta: I challenge the opposition to provide proof of said allegations, Post-Karma: Though I was not present for this war, I'm of the understanding that Sparta did not represent itself well. This is not under question, the question is wether or not we still act in this fashion. Until facts are presented to support the claims of the OP' ; I contend that the proper response to an unsupported claim is to like wise offer an unsupported claim. OP- 'sparta deserves to be rolled for - rep extortion and side-flipping' Sparta - 'sparta is loyal and honorable' neither side has established evidence - and as Sparta is the accused the burden of proof lies with the accuser. We await the evidence of our crimes, till then we shall not offer any in rebutal. [/quote]You can sit and not rebut claims all you want, but that's not going to do anything towards changing peoples' minds. Have fun waiting.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 02:15 AM' timestamp='1267427919' post='2209690']Same goes for you F15, I'm not even going to bother quoting what you said, it made about as much sense as Pedron's statement did anyway.[/quote]You Spartans are mighty complementary tonight. First Perl, and now you. You aren't quoting me because you can't argue against it. If you've looked at stats both here and in the previous global war, there is more than enough proof in those alone to debunk any arguments you might make for your military, so you don't argue against it. As for your FA, while I despise the methods your alliance has used to put itself in the position it is in, the people running Sparta have been successful for various reasons in keeping you on the winning side for the past year or two, so I bid you no argument there, as it is simply a matter of opinion and personal principles. [quote name='Aurion' date='01 March 2010 - 02:16 AM' timestamp='1267427977' post='2209692'] For bonus points for anyone reading this, how on earth do you "prove" a negative to start with? [/quote] By proving that the positive is not true. I'll take cookies. Chocolate chip, with oatmeal. edit - added second quote and its response.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 02:01 AM' timestamp='1267427103' post='2209678'] ...I think you're failing to grasp the concept of circular argument. Let me break it down for you: I asked the question "How do we prove the accusations against Sparta false". You answered by listing the individual accusations that made up the category "accusations against Sparta", and telling us that proving them all false would prove the statement false. So you told us that proving the conclusion was true would make the conclusion true... that's a circular argument. Re-phrasing the conclusion you assumed to be true doesn't change anything. [/quote] Well, first of all you shouldn't have needed to ask the question you mentioned above in the first place. That's your first problem. Your second: Gtting mad at someone for starting to spell out the methods by which you prove the whole [see: 'accusations'] wrong (by splitting it into distinct pieces and picking them apart one at a time) is a tad ridiculous, actually. He was just trying to help you get started, since you apparently needed help with that; rather nice of him, don't you think? [quote name='Pedron Niall' date='01 March 2010 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1267427433' post='2209682'] Yes, I said that to prove you are right [b]you must prove it[/b] and you have failed to do so because you made no logical argument against the OP's implications. I am asking you to prove that Sparta's military record is not as poor as the OP suggests and that Sparta's foreign affairs have been honourable and not simply for the expedience of the moment. [b]Why are you purposely avoiding this question?[/b] [/quote] Because you haven't completely laid out how to defend against each accusation, and how to disprove the counter-points that might be made. edit - added the second quote and its response.

[quote name='Pearl' date='01 March 2010 - 01:33 AM' timestamp='1267425399' post='2209624'] You're clever.[/quote] Actually, Yggdrazil was the one that gave you the advice; complement him instead. Appreciated, however. [quote name='Pedron Niall' date='01 March 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1267425121' post='2209613'] As an outside observer, I'd just like to say that the response from Sparta in this thread has been pretty poor. You never really made a direct argument against the OP's points but simply dismissed them as obviously false. I am not saying that they are correct or incorrect, the accusations, but I would like to point out that it makes it seem like you guys have no real defense or counter-argument. Maybe you should focus on dismissing the military statistics and foreign affairs record they accuse Sparta of and not any ad hominem avenue of attack you find in the posters. [/quote] Just look at all the good advice you are getting, Pearl & co! You should use it! [quote name='Yggdrazil' date='01 March 2010 - 01:34 AM' timestamp='1267425495' post='2209627'] I have pointed out this thread is a propaganda attempt and poorly conceived, yet it differs little than the signatures in many member nations in this community.Responding to it as Sparta did and one being a government official was likewise poor form. I expected more for a alliance of Sparta's caliber.If I'm wrong to expect reasoned responses from Sparta rather than attempts to derail a thread with garbage..[/quote] You are wrong to expect a reasoned response, from what we have seen so far. [quote name='Yggdrazil' date='01 March 2010 - 01:34 AM' timestamp='1267425495' post='2209627']let me know.[/quote]Done. [quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1267425552' post='2209629']How can we be expected to argue something so blatantly and ridiculously false? I'd wager every one of our detractors already knows that what they're spouting is pure !@#$%^&*, so with that in mind, what reason do we have to argue? Can we really be expected to waste our time trying to argue a point they will never concede, or should we make a mockery of a thread that is, it's self, a mockery?[/quote] We certainly [s]expect[/s] wish you would try to argue the claims against your military/FA (see the quotes above in this same post), but apparently that is too much. [quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1267425552' post='2209629']You have a right to your opinion, that's fine, I respect that, so do all the good people who have posted in their thread. But there is a time and place for it, and there are exceptable ways to present them. This thread is not one of them. I feel duty bound to make an impression on the deplorable individuals who presented and promulgated this poll that their conduct has been unacceptable and that hostility will be met with hostility in equal measure.[/quote] The only impression you are making on the public of CN is that you can't or won't defend your alliance against these claims by logic and evidence, and must resort to spam in a futile attempt to get it closed, instead. [quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1267425552' post='2209629']Had these people come in to this thread with evidence rather than rhetoric and accusations, this thread would have played out differently, but the die is cast. I make no apologies either for myself or my alliance, we have acted the only way that can be expected of anyone with a modicum of self respect.[/quote] You are the ones defending your alliance's name (supposedly - though your conduct thusfar seems to support the other side more than your own), so again, why don't you try disproving the aforementioned claims? That would get the thread over with much sooner than spam, if you could do so successfully. edit(s) - grammar/formatting

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='01 March 2010 - 01:03 AM' timestamp='1267423592' post='2209567'] *an Well, since your post contains a HUGE grammatical FAILURE, I am left with no choice but to conclude, by transitive relation, that Sparta must also FAIL! Poor show Sparta, I expected better. [/quote] I like you.

[quote name='Pearl' date='01 March 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1267420520' post='2209508'] [quote name='Yggdrazil' date='01 March 2010 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1267419970' post='2209495'] Trying to get a thread locked with spam is poor form ,Sparta.You need to answer your detractors with acumen and talent. Efficiency at FA and nation building.Yet, you chose the stupid method. It points to a like of class and the behavior of children.[/quote] Are you serious? Did you actually read the OP? How would you like it if I posted a thread that said "When is the Sansori Initiative going to get rolled?" I suppose you'd be really cool with that and would encourage that kind of behavior wouldnt you? [/quote]TSI getting rolled isn't the issue here, though; Sparta is. Try using Yggdrazil's advice instead of crying that the thread was made.

Good to see Darkstar growing; keep it up!