WarriorConcept

[quote name='Alexander The Second' timestamp='1295533061' post='2586279'] Ya you know it!!! If ZI isn't enough they will help you get back up by buying tech off you to make there side stronger, so they can continue the actions that caused you to rogue on them in the first place!!! wait... can't you just send tech deals to people other then them for the same result? and to top if off you wont be helping people you dislike. This is EZI in it's own clever guise... VE talks low about UPN, but even we have the respect for our fellow players to allow them to continue to play the game after there nation is defeated ingame (ZI). Heck I could understand in extreme cases demanding the persons warchest being depleted... but forcing them to aid you or be forced out of the game? can an alliance stoop lower? [/quote] Are you really that stupid?

Sucks you lost all that.

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1295560253' post='2587206'] Obviously not as they won't be able to. Being unable to defend an ally because you're already fighting isn't the same thing. Also, it isn't hypocrisy. As it has been explained to me, RoK stated they were going in to defend Polar which would mean that SF would have their back because that is how it typically works. SF tried to talk them out of it and when they couldn't, decided to engage UPN instead. Furthermore, a certain alliance flat out said they were not entering on the other side because "defending RoK was more important" ... somehow, they ended up declaring anyway. [/quote] So if GOD had stated first they were going to war, then RoK would have had their backs instead right? Honestly I understand that's how SF always wants to work, but it realistically always can't because they have outside treaties. If SF wants to always roll together they should have no external treaties, but having them now puts them in situations like they are in now. From what I understand they are doing the best they can out of this situation, and I'm sure RoK will not be taking that much damage for some odd reason.

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1295559566' post='2587186'] I care that they spied (if you can even call it that), but it doesn't mean you don't defend them. Treaties are signed to be honored, not so you can drop them when it is convenient or when they make a mistake. Based on what you and others are saying, treaties aren't really all that important and have no risk attached. I mean, you can just drop them if they cause trouble or refuse to help them when they are attacked anyway ... right? [/quote] So if VE is attacked, I assume RoK will help defend them? Also, you still haven't defended your hypocrisy at all regarding the rest of SF. Which is really the main thing that is annoying me a bit, seeing as how you're even now clamoring about honoring treaties.

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1295558930' post='2587160'] RoK's ally was attacked, PB was not. Yeah, I know people shout that this is a defensive war but that is BS. Proclaiming that a war is defensive after you declare is just a cheap way to keep people out and gives alliances an easy out. It is has been the most frequently used way to shirk responsibilities for years now. This war is an aggressive war started by VE. I don't personally care about the CB as I think they are overrated anyway. If you feel someone wronged you, then attack them if you feel it is war worthy. I also don't care if VE used diplomacy or not as diplomacy is optional. I do care about what transpired afterwards and the behavior of several alliances, RoK included. [/quote] So you don't care when your ally spies on your other ally, but will defend them anyway? Great to know. I understand that you want to defend NpO, though obviously I wonder why you're still allied to them at times, but to proceed to just keep complaining about GOD and SF all day when all they're doing is honoring their treaties as well is just blatant hypocrisy and I expect from you to be honest.

Funny DoW I must say. Have fun.

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1295558224' post='2587136'] Yes, we know that some SF alliances will be defending RoK ... that doesn't really change anything. Since RoK insisted on going in and you didn't want to defend them 100% and push PB away, you decided to move the pieces and make sure the war was contained. This way, RoK gets to defend Polar and everything remains copacetic between SF and PB. I know the drill. I've been there in those conversations before. Since you couldn't talk RoK out of letting ally burn, I can only theorize that you simply controlled who hit RoK in retaliation and who will then counter. No offense to SLCB, but they aren't known for being the most organized or active alliance, so a counter-declaration on RoK just minutes after they posted sort of supports that theory. Also, I am well aware of what Taut knows and he has been reconsulted. My stance hasn't changed and neither has theirs. [/quote] So you'd rather everyone in SF ignore all their treaties to PB just so RoK can defend an ally who encouraged a spy to spy on..RoK's other ally?

Disappointed in this, but despite that I still like you guys. Have fun this war.

Have fun.

Tech raiding UPN! Have fun

Tech raids >

Go get 'em

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1295395711' post='2582301'] Sorry. I put my name on a MDoAP, and I at least intend to honor it. I'm not sure how that merits loss of respect. To each his own, I guess ... [/quote] Hope to catch you on IRC when you get the chance.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295341810' post='2580982'] so you would tell them not to do it like Dajobo stating he does not condone spying? okay. Dajobo did that. also, work may mean he has no IRC access.... you do realize there are times when people can't get on IRC and work would most likely be one of those times. i know it is a complete and utter shock to you, but it is the sad truth. as for the rest- again, Dajobo was talking to someone who was a friend whom he thought was joking. heaven forbid someone not take this place so damn seriously that they would automatically assume a friend of theirs was not joking in that kind of situation. shoot, if that were the case, then i had better be careful about what i joke about. i have joked about going rogue, spying, trying to coup an alliance or 3 or 4 and !@#$ like that. shush you, to WC that other world does not matter. Only Planet Bob matters and that other realm and the obligations there are nothing compared to getting to VE right away. it does not matter if Dajobo probably had no means of contacting Impero as that chat did not look like it took place on IRC. nor does it matter that it appears that Dajobo was at work and most likely had other things to do when he got home before bed. none of that matters at all man. you have to adapt to this new CN or die in a Darwinian manner. that being said, tis late and i am heading to bed. [/quote] Of course I would tell them not to do it like Dajobo did, but then again I wouldn't have proceeded like that like he did and then say "pick someone worth spying on" and mention some alliances. Big difference there and you're smart enough to figure it out. It's already been evidenced he was on IRC prior to accepting the screenshot as he was even able to discuss it with the spy. Time better spent talking to VE. And also it is late, going to bed. Night

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295341333' post='2580971'] As I understand, this occurred over a rather short timeframe, so it's quite likely that Dajobo went to VE rather quickly, considering timezones and sleeping habits (and the like). Certainly quickly enough to argue that VE went hastily to war [b]without bothering to hear NpO's side of the story[/b]. [/quote] Actually I believe it was almost a full day, which would be fair enough otherwise except he did still spend time discussing the screenshot with the spy. Going to #ve and talking to someone there would not have taken more than 5 minutes.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295341268' post='2580969'] fairly certain if some random person approached Dajobo and said he was going to spy, that he would not respond. from what i can tell, Lennox was a friend of Dajobo and Dajobo thought he was joking. Dajobo got taken for a fool when Lennox did go through with it since it should be quite obvious it was a set up. though you are stating that VE is not that influential? cuz truth be told, VE and MK are quite influential and if a spy were to spy on any two alliances, those two would be the ones to spy on. (oh damn, am i now somehow giving VE and MK a CB??????) also, he accepted a PM that turned out to be a screenshot, and the following day got on to talk to Impero only to be told no. if you missed the "On the phone with a customer atm" line Dajobo stated here http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh149/Impero55/screenshot20110116at100.png then it should be quite obvious why he did not spring straight to it and contact Impero. so again i ask, that other world, where priorities should take precedent, no longer matters? guess that anyone with obligations in that other world should drop them immediately to ensure that you or VE are properly kowtowed to then. please. that is the weakest !@#$ yet WC. [/quote] I am not stating they're not influential and you know that. If someone wants to spy I would still not give them any targets, first I'd tell them not do it at all. As a leader in an alliance Dajobo has the responsibility to well..act responsible. And saying spy on someone worthwhile when the spy already has a target then proceeding to give him targets is certainly not what a leader should be doing. And what seems obvious? Oh right that he kept discussing the screenshot information with the spy, which indicated he had enough time to go to #ve and let gov there know what was happening. Which would take what...2 minutes?

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295341098' post='2580962'] They did, however by that time Impero had already made up his mind about war and was not receptive to further input, per these logs: [/quote] Yes they eventually did, probably after finding out VE was going to war instead of doing it on his own when he received the screenshot. Just because he did it once he realized his alliance would be rolled instead of when he actually received the information doesn't abdicate him of wrong doing.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1295341051' post='2580960'] I see your point NpO was dumb in the fact they even took part in that conversation, but what spy would send screen shots to the alliance he was spying on ? giving them the information they needed to prove he was spying on them, kind of a pointless thing to do if you was a spy ? so sir you are the only idiot here, to even believe for one second that a spy who gives all the information of his actions and the actions of the alliance he is meant to be spying for to the alliance he spied on is anything more then a set up, then your a very simple person. [/quote] The spy that ended up coming clean, which is how all spies eventually end up becoming caught. Did VE brainwash NpO into telling the spy to spy on VE? Or did they also brainwash NpO into not telling VE about the screenshot they received?

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1295341051' post='2580960'] I see your point NpO was dumb in the fact they even took part in that conversation, but what spy would send screen shots to the alliance he was spying on ? giving them the information they needed to prove he was spying on them, kind of a pointless thing to do if you was a spy ? so sir you are the only idiot here, to even believe for one second that a spy who gives all the information of his actions and the actions of the alliance he is meant to be spying for to the alliance he spied on is anything more then a set up, then your a very simple person. [/quote] The spy that ended up coming clean, which is how all spies eventually end up becoming caught. Did VE brainwash NpO into telling the spy to spy on VE? Or did they also brainwash NpO into not telling VE about the screenshot they received?

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295340840' post='2580955'] But would you have tried to paint the story such that NpO didn't even try to talk to you, or would you have laid out the whole truth? [/quote] Did NpO try to talk to me when a someone came to them saying they want to spy? No they said "spy on someone worthwhile" and named VE Did NpO try to talk to me when they got a screenshot of our information? No, they instead kept talking to the spy and actually comparing warchest information that was in the screenshot with their own. That is the truth, though you may want to believe otherwise.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295340282' post='2580930'] he did just that. the only thing you can claim he kept to himself is Lennox stating he had the intention to spy, though since Dajobo thought he was joking he did not. when Lennox did send an SS, he went to Impero as soon as possible (less than a day, which is usually quite reasonable since RL gets in the way sometimes such as Dajobo appearing to be at work). [/quote] I believe it was a full at least, regardless since you're on IRC and receive that it's not too much work to proceed to #ve and talk to someone as soon as you get that instead of actually comparing warchest sizes with that spy, is it? [quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295340424' post='2580938'] so a friend of yours comes to you and asks the same thing and you would immediately assume your friend is not joking around and turn them in? aiight. that says something good and bad about your character. [/quote] I would tell my friend not to spy because it's pointless and dumb, and have done so in the past.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295339920' post='2580917'] [2011-01-18 11:16:38] <Dajobo|NpO|> hey Impero you have a minute? [2011-01-18 12:00:28] <Impero[VE]> im not sure what their is to talk about [2011-01-18 12:01:36] <Dajobo|NpO|> not a lot really but you can decide what you think or you can have full and unedited logs of every word said [2011-01-18 12:01:47] <Impero[VE]> but ill ask anyway: do you have some sort of amazing explaination for your dealings with lennox? [2011-01-18 12:02:25] <Dajobo|NpO|> nothing amazing but the truth if you want it [2011-01-18 12:03:02] <Impero[VE]> i have the truth already [2011-01-18 12:03:09] <Impero[VE]> in that case, i need to be afk again [2011-01-18 12:03:14] <Impero[VE]> have a good night [2011-01-18 12:05:32] <Dajobo|NpO|> Ok your call, you will be the one who looks like a fool though. [2011-01-18 12:05:39] <Dajobo|NpO|> goodnight. well i do believe it was Dajobo who tried to talk to Impero first, so you are wrong there. As for how long Dajobo "held" onto the info- looks like less than a day and from both Polaris's thread and VE's thread- it appears Dajobo was at work and most likely after work went to bed (ooc: but is RL not a real excuse or something?). Then it appears that Impero was AFK and finally decided to talk to Dajobo only to [2011-01-18 12:03:09] <Impero[VE]> in that case, i need to be afk again so, it appears you are completely wrong in your assessment. There was no known spy attempt that was more than a day old, and when Dajobo was able to do so, he immediately went to talk to Impero about it. so you were saying WC? sorry to burst your bubble but this is not the "rock" solid CB as you and others claim. in fact, it appears to be a rather flimsy piece of crap that is so flimsy people have seriously tried to claim that helping Lennox out with choosing his nation name/ruler name is helping Lennox spy. [/quote] You know, fair enough on that point. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong about something, and I guess NpO did talk to VE first. The major issue is NpO saying "pick someone worthwhile to spy on" when a guy comes and says he wants to spy, then naming VE as one of the more influential people out there. That followed by accepting a spied screenshot then holding on to it while discussing the information with the spy instead of coming to VE right away when he got it is pretty damning truth be told, at least from VE's perspective. If I were VE I would have rolled as well given all of this information.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1295340037' post='2580922'] Yeah OV ran to NPO when they got screen shots of NPO. like it not this was a set up and they played NpO nothing more nothing less - I am just thinking how many alliances that so called supported Karma are going to attack VE [/quote] This was a setup? So VE sent lennox to go to NpO and instructed him to say he's going to spy on MHA...then instructed NpO to say "pick someone worthwhile" and name VE there? You're an idiot.

[quote name='cookavich' timestamp='1295339836' post='2580911'] Up until the 16th, the conversations between Dajobo and Lennox were fairly innocuous when viewed in the context of two friends shooting the breeze. If you had a friend, who had a propensity for gossiping a lot and generally making wild statements, who said something to the effect if "lol gonna spy on someone" would the white knight within rise up and cause you to sell put your friend when the only thing you have going for you is a conversation between two friends? I've had conversations like these, and I did no such thing because I took them at what I perceived to be face value. Dajobo is one of the nicest and most well intentioned individuals I know in this game, and that is what I believe he did here. [/quote] I would not say "pick someone worth spying on" followed by the names of 2 alliances and saying they're the most important. Especially not if I was the #2 in a large alliance like NpO, least of all.

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1295339473' post='2580901'] You keep using the word targets which no one, including Dajobo used. Lennox asked who was politically powerful at the moment and mentioned MHA. Dajobo said MK and VE were more politically powerful, that is it. What of what he said is incorrect? Where did he tell Lennox to join VE and send him info? Dajobo said he did not condone spying and wanted no part of it in the same conversation. It was naive of Dajobo to have the discussion that he did in the current environment.That does not prove malice though. He assumed Lennox was talking !@#$ and now it has come back to bite him. As for the screenshot, he should have gone to VE immediately but again assumed Lennox was full of !@#$ and ignored it. He didn't ask about it, he didn't request more information. Some apy master. You and your friends wanted a "CB" and Lennox gave you one while effecting revenge on Polar for whatever reason he has. Enjoy your war, you don't need to make !@#$ up to justify yourselves anymore, the war is on, the CB is now irrelevant. [/quote] [quote] 20:33 Dajobo|NpO| nah they aren't the enemy 20:34 Dajobo|NpO| [b]pick domeone worth spying on[/b] 20:35 Chancy Give me suggestions 20:36 Dajobo|NpO| [b]VE or MK are the two who are heavily involved in world politics[/b][/quote] He asked first who the biggest alliance is, not who is the most politically powerful. Then he actively said pick someone worth spying on and gave two suggestions. If someone came to me talking about spying, I would not actively encourage him to "pick someone worth spying on" and then proceed to name 2 specific alliances. Maybe you would, but not I. Regardless of him assuming Lennox was talking !@#$, he should not have done what he did. He even received a screenshot of VE information which should have immediately have been taken to VE, then again he didn't.