PotFace

Welcome to the party !!

Jeez Typo.... I figured you would have said something correct by now out of sheer accident. The world pretty much concurs that VE set this up. And even if this was all some made-up, highly detailed, well planned-out lie (which it isn't), VE would still have to convince everyone that its rush to DoW wasn't irresponsible or indicative of premeditation in order to demonstrate that she's in the right. This is the consequence for doing business the way you guys have chosen to do business. It's cause and effect. Now man up and deal with the mess that you have helped to create. Or hell, if you wanted to save face and attempt to bring some sort of honor to yourself and maybe even a bright future ahead of you - do the right thing. Surrender and apologize. Too easy.

"Please wF, will you join the war with us? We wouldn't want to find out that YOU SPIED on us or anything too, now would we? And that goes for the rest of you." ... sound about right?

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295669890' post='2590739'] And yet, am I wrong? Polar had 2 months to keep PB off it's back. They had an instruction manual hand-written and delivered to them, by me, for how to let PB know they weren't hostile [as was believed] without bending over for them. Small things. Talk to this guy, and that guy. Make some off the record friends. Be nice. Very easy, very basic. Polaris, instead, clings on to all their allies - no matter how belligerent or how loose they were with waving Polar's guns around [I dare Dajabo to dump logs of the UINE stuff to NpO membership. Much less UPN or TKTB. Dare you, old friend. See how they feel about being used as meatshields for pompous little scumbags like that]. They shun and cold shoulder everyone in PB. They ally Legion, STA allies TPF. They let the RoK and NV ties fall into disuse. They failed on a very fundamental, basic, elementary level. It's unacceptable for the caliber of alliance they can be and they paid/are paying the price for it. That's why you don't see me all that fussed about it. We tried to coddle them to an embarrassing degree and they just could not man the hell up. [/quote] Nice try at changing the subject. I'll humor you for just a few minutes on that one, if I may... I think it's pretty clear that looking at Polaris and VE, it's pretty easy to determine who had the most hostility. It's not the Order's responsibility to ensure that **THOSE** guys don't make fools out of themselves in front of the entire planet in the manner which they have for this war. What I see are a bunch of trigger-happy warmongers that would seemingly stop at nothing to engage in a war with Polaris. I would have shunned and cold shouldered everyone in PB as well. Edit: It's been a long day, lol, sorry

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1295669542' post='2590716'] And yet, up until now that war never happened. Funny how that coincided exactly with your Regent handing out a reason on a golden platter isn't it? [/quote] That statement says so much about you and who you represent it's not even funny.

[quote name='LordBucks' timestamp='1295668989' post='2590689'] Our job wasn't to make CB's look weak. It was to keep good allies like Genesis/ ARES and RoK from getting rolled. [/quote] Edit: That seems to be standard, actually now that I think about it a little more.

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1295668638' post='2590670'] The fact that he was the one who mentioned that he saved your butts multiple times shows that you have no integrity. You only "stood up" for him after he mentioned all this. And your side has no individuality, if we're going by your standard. Everyone else is lockstep in showing Xiph hate. [/quote] I suppose if we actively participated in spying, we would have been aware of his efforts to "save our butts multiple times". But we don't, as everyone now knows. And clearly, I'm showing plenty of individuality. I think that perhaps both of us would be better informed of each side's take on this matter if there were some form of communication that had been opened up. We attempted it, but were denied that opportunity. Now look at the situation. Cause and Effect.

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1295668267' post='2590651'] And yet everyone on your side, excluding yourself, has vilified him. Is that really "integrity"? [/quote] Unlike you guys, we're actually entitled to a bit of individuality over here. Nobody forced him to come out and say that he took up for Polar. But he did, because he has integrity and felt that it was something that we should know. I give credit where credit is due. Because I have integrity. It doesn't mean I'm about to send him a marriage proposal - to me, he is still the enemy.

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295667660' post='2590622'] The fact is [and this is logged by a lot of leaders on both sides - and can be confirmed], Randomly and myself have run more interference and kept Polar from being killed than any one of their actual, treatied allies have ever done. For months now. Because we really believed you guys deserved a chance, and deserved to not be rolled simply because it'd be fun for some people to do it. You need to start asking your allies where they've been - cause I can assure you, we weren't getting any support.* [size="1"]*Should add as a note: STA and Genesis have been helping as far as trying to talk sense into you guys goes, but they're not your more politically capable allies. They're not the ones you needed bailing you out. They don't have the connections to do it. The ones with them weren't doing anything. And STA threw you under the bus anyway, in the end. TPF treaty and all.[/size] [/quote] Thee things immediately strike me about this statement: 1. If you don't agree with what your friends are doing, and they don't care what you think, then make new friends. 2. Our allies are fighting with us - the war has successfully escalated. 3. Thank you for your efforts. We don't have to see eye-to-eye on everything, but we do share some bit of integrity. That is more than what you share with your allies atm.

OP looks incomplete. I know this much - if I was allied to an alliance that couldn't so much as make a post that was fit for the community to see, that would have sent me running for the door in of itself. Regardless of the politics, accusations, or anything else. We're talking about something that literally hundreds of people do each day, and VE's leader couldn't handle [i]that[/i] without screwing it up. On behalf of his alliance at that. /facepalms.

Edit: Bah, wrong tab. Also, excellent job, RV!!

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1295660324' post='2590148'] You may be jumping the gun just a tad bit, given that Impero hasn't even posted a response yet. Then again, perhaps I should think back to my recent post regarding people immediately believing to be true what they want to be true. [/quote] I wouldn't expect an immediate post - he didn't spend countless hours planning it out meticulously like the rest of his scheme.

As an artist, I can say that this topic has been truly inspirational to me, and I'd like to share with you a bit of the inspiration that I got by reading all of the responses which should keep going to page 30 before update at this rate: [img]http://www.blackstonecommission.com/VE.png[/img]

[quote name='Ironfist' timestamp='1295659035' post='2590032'] You keep talking about cowardice, but at least they had the proverbial balls to declare war in the first place. Right or wrong, the war is here. I thought NSO would just be happy enough at that alone. [/quote] Speaking of NSO and taking the initiative and such, how are you enjoying brown these days?

Rule of law has disappeared? Doubtful. And here's why.... If you march to war without a damned good reason to, and you lose, you risk being couped. If you're a smaller alliance, you risk disbandment. When your members come to you and ask you why they've all been ZIed, you'd better have a much better reason to give than, "we just wanted to go to war with someone". I'd like to think that most alliance leaders respect their members a little more than that, but apparently that doesn't seem to be the case. Most of the people who are at war are completely out of touch with the politics behind it. It's kinda sad, really, to think that their faith that they've placed in their leaders to use their nations responsibly, has actually been given to leaders who regard their nations as disposable napkins and use them "just because". It is this principal that enforces the laws of political responsibility. Those that don't obey the laws will still stumble around on Bob for a little while until they have a really big blunder, or enough blunders to erase themselves from our presence. If you are despicable, you will reap the consequences in some way, shape, form, or fashion.

If any alliance gives VE any political credibility with Impero still around after this, they deserve what they get.

Sounds very nice indeed !! Maybe with making bird houses and sewing quilts, we'll have some kind of program that could have prevented this whole thing from happening to begin with. I think those that posted the first declaration of war should be volunteered to head the Landmine Disarmament Program.

I dunno - considering the war that RIA is fighting, I'd imagine there's going to be quite a bit of hostility in those POW camps. Do you have separate floors or wings perhaps, or some other means to prevent your POWs from killing each other?

So basically, C&G felt that you guys were of their caliber because they needed you to fight with them? Jeez, you guys remind me of Corey and Trevor.

Welcome to it, ARES. Glad to have you guys on board!!

[quote name='Logan' timestamp='1295580999' post='2587673'] I'm sure you guys would be making a big stink about it if everyone who wanted just up and started attacking your alliance. [/quote] That's actually kinda (exactly) how all of this started.... and I don't recall Polaris demanding any additional DoWs.

Welcome, GATO!! It's a great party... and you're fashionably late!! Splendid entry!! o/ GATO !!

[quote name='Kn1nJa' timestamp='1295563207' post='2587286'] I missed the part where UINE included Hydra in the DoW. So why then do we have 4 wars and counting? Post a DoW for us already UINE! [/quote] What difference does it make?

Welcome to it Keve... glad to have ya !! o/ UINE !!

Welcome to the war STA !! Make them pay !! o/ STA !!