PotFace

Meh, I'll give you guys a B+ for effort. But if you're looking to do propaganda, you might want to sit down and study the pros first.

[quote name='DarkEra97' timestamp='1297804764' post='2634660'] Good to know that's how you feel. [/quote] Yeah, don't mind me. I'm old-school. That's how things were back then, for the most part. Entire blocs would be willing to go to ZI with each other, there was no such thing as white peace, and viceroys from the victor were placed within the defeated's government. Things were pretty brutal back in those days, for sure.

[quote name='Dajobo' timestamp='1297803662' post='2634641'] Hey PotFace buddy, point them guns at VE would you please. iFOK and FOK have been fun and honourable opponents in this war and tbh most Polars have enjoyed fighting with them so PotFace isn't representing the Polar govt view here. Really this topic isn't about us or any reps they may get talked about in the future, it's about tLW and I love the fact they are out and showered in glory [/quote] Sorry about that - war, for those who know and respect it, sometimes makes you trigger happy and blood thirsty. Guys, Dajobo is right - if you don't put me on a metal leash, I'll chew it off from time to time. I'm crazy like that. Congratulations on your white peace.

[quote name='ProdigyNL' timestamp='1297796464' post='2634572'] I must agree with FOK and iFOK, what youre saying doesnt make any sense in this situation. All peace so far dont have reps, they might go ask it from Polaris, but that is logical as they view Polaris as the reason this war has started. At the moment there is just the DT issue, but that is totally unrelated to these alliances and is a stupid high amount of reps that shouldnt even be asked at all but you cant blame that on the alliances we were at war with. [/quote] FOK, iFOK... seriously guys. What's the difference? You wanted to be just like FOK and now you don't want to sit in the same boat with them anymore? What kind of sense does that make? Anyhow, onto the issue at hand... reps. I hear your side of the argument "well, there haven't been any [i]reps so far[/i]...". Let's take a sobering perspective on this. This is NpO and VE's war. This is NPO and MK's war. The rest of you are just here to help out with defending and tech raiding. Now, with this in mind, let's take a good gander at the NpO/VE front - we've been fighting each other longer than any of you. And we're still fighting while you guys are declaring peace right and left. Naturally we're going to expect to see white peace come out of you guys... and maybe some tulips in your uniform pockets too. However, there's two main concerns about that which I have. One, it doesn't even matter, because this isn't really your war to begin with, and even if it was, you'd still be the aggressors. VE posted the DoW that started this war. Regardless of any circumstance, or whether or not the CB was legit, when you are the first to march to war, it makes you the military aggressor. The second concern that I have here, is the whole mentality behind why you guys even stepped foot on the battlefield in the first place. I thought that the whole idea behind this war (and your beliefs) were to bring an end to political boredom. Or something along the lines of "war for the hell of it, because it's much better than sitting in a peaceful world". If that's the case, then why are you guys even declaring peace anyway? Don't you want to stand up for what you believe in? The war that actually matters, however, isn't over yet. I fully expect reps to be imposed. What does that have to do with you guys? You supported it, while declaring white peace. I find that to be a bit hypocritical, assuming that VE emerges victorious and decides to impose reps. You don't just get to post white peace, dust your hands off, and then step away behind the curtain like that. You're either in the war or you're out of the war. You either believe in what you're doing, or you do not. It's high-time that you guys make a decision and stick with it. ... and that's all I got to say about thay-at. Edit: spelling

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1297790990' post='2634506'] Woh, someone got out of bed with the wrong foot. Your reply didn't even came close to the contents of this topic, so naturally I'm wondering what it relates to. If you don't want to expand on your answer, why the hell post something anyway? You claimed we started this war because we wanted reps. This surrender (and all the others before) lacks any amount of reps, so what you claim and what transpires do not match. Try again? [/quote] Actually, contrary to popular belief, this war involves more than just FOK and pals. Maybe you guys are just so overwhelmed with joy as far as this victory goes that you've forgotten this. This war is nothing more than the largest-scale tech raid in the history of Bob. For you guys to declare white peace like you have - is inconsistent with the purpose behind this war. Naturally someone has to do it so that someone won't be as dirty when they climb out of the trenches.... however, if you guys plan on using this once instance as PR to improve the worldview of the logic behind FOK's support of this war, you are sadly mistaken. At this point, it really doesn't matter if you guys offered white peace or not - you're still the aggressors. Now, if you don't understand THAT, then I'm afraid that you just can't be helped.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1297779903' post='2634392'] I've read this three times and it still doesn't make sense to this specific situation. What do you mean exactly? [/quote] It means exactly what it says. If you're unable to read information and extract a meaning from it, then that's your problem, not mine. I'm certainly not going to go the extra mile for you because you're the child that they refused to leave behind.

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1297741057' post='2633901'] Congrats guys on the white peace, which is more that can be said of other alliances. [/quote] But didn't you know? If this was supposed to be a war to end political boredom, then white peace would be the only fitting type of peace. Oh right - this war isn't about that at all. It's about reps.

[s]Wait wait wait! Does this mean that the agreement with UINE and TGE is null and void now - as in, TGE nations which promised not to reenter the conflict, because they're now in FOK, will be reentering the conflict? I'd hate to think that perhaps this is some kind of a strategic move in the war...[/s] Nevermind... I had to take a second look at the OP.

Jeez - remind me not to get on UINE's bad side....

Welcome to the fight, Schatt. You know, what I've seen here from both sides is the lobbying for some kind of a "belief" in which should be used as the driving force in this war. We typically see this in wars as PR to gain support for military reasons, naturally. The practice is so rampant that I think a lot of people just look at it and take it for face value. But when you actually examine these "beliefs" on both sides, one side appears to be absolutely despicable and hypocritical, while the other side is certainly consistent and honorable. This is common knowledge to [i]most[/i] of us. Then you have the complete wastes of space that will place their allies above any sort of principal or rational thought, who very pathetically attempts to legitimize their loyalties by advocating such a despicable belief. It would be hard for me to imagine that all of the offensive parties in this war [u][i]truly[/i][/u] believe in what they're doing. The idea of implementing hegemonic practice while fighting against an expired hegemony - it's just not strong enough of an idea, and many of them know this, deep down. Regardless of what happens on the battlefield right now, this plants the seeds for total internal collapse on their side. The outcome of this war will only determine how fast or slow that happens. At the end of the day, their members are going to ask why their nations suffered the damage that they have. And the answer that they receive will not be acceptable. Plain and simple.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1296191729' post='2606831'] So that's a no. All I needed to know. Thanks. [/quote] You're welcome. And thank [i]you[/i] for shedding a bit more light on what prompted the OP.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1296191177' post='2606798'] PotFace, do you expect people to take you seriously as long as you consider a scenario where GOONS would exit this war as the defeated party? (If you're concerned at all yourself about gaining ground I'd abandon that line of thought posthaste.) [/quote] Maybe one of these days when you guys can get your act together, someone will send some diplos to come over and give you guys a block of instruction on "foresight", and how bad it is to "count your chickens before they've hatched". This is going to be a long war. It's not over with yet - this thing will probably escalate a few more times before it is. Then again, it may not. But, at least I know better than to make assumptions.... and I sure as hell wouldn't look favorably upon any leader who does when it involves jeopardizing supporters' nations.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1296104701' post='2604556'] [center][IMG]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100605090103/cybernations/images/d/d0/Cngoonsflag.png[/IMG][/center] Greetings my new friends in the Ex-Heg! I want to take the time to thank you. I'm not mad, not in the least in fact, I am overjoyed. You see, Ex-Heg, you have just given us the greatest gift possible. A challenge. What you fail to understand, (aside from the fact that attacking us in this way will not prevent TOP from slaughtering you, if they elect to do so, whichever of you they pick), is that you cannot defeat us like this. We will not break, we will not bend, we will not surrender. The old GOONS crumbled because of a systematic failure of leadership, one which my administration and I have no intention of repeating. We have the experience to know that even if you pound our nations, our side as a whole will emerge victorious. You have chosen a course of action that will enrich our experience here on bob, and bring us glory. I don't know what logic you used to target us, did you think you could escape the mighty middle tier of MK, or the beyond dangerous elites of umbrella? Whatever the case, you have made a rather large error. We will emerge from this a stronger, more organized, and more unified community, and that is not something we would have gotten without this challenge. You are building us, one war at a time. Once again, thank you. Sardonic -GOONS Pilot [/quote] My turn. First of all, an "announcement" like this is the kind of fail one would expect to see from GOONS. In that respect, it seems like you guys are right on par. An entire speech saying, "we cannot be defeated" during a wartime posture. Flooring, to say the least; GOONS are not FAN - GOONS are GOONS. What your enemies are hearing from this is, "after you ruthlessly plow us down and we surrender, we're going to need to be kept on a very short leash". In other words, if your opponents wanted to pursue a "Viet-GOONS" war, where nobody will be allowed to grow outside of peace for over a year, then you have just provided them with all of the justification that they need to do so. You've effectively made that case for them. I think that deserves a standing ovation. Indeed the "old" GOONS "crumbled under a systematic failure of leadership". My guess is, that probably wasn't their intention. Nobody intends to have a "systematic failure of leadership". In fact, such things happen because of a gross lack of any [b]foresight[/b], which GOONS has successfully demonstrated to all of us with flying colors. If the GOONS idea of "building" involves nations getting destroyed due to poor judgment on behalf of its leadership, then by all means, I'm sure that your opponents will have no problem with "building" you. I know I sure wouldn't. Lastly, I can't help but to wonder what motivated this announcement to begin with. Generally, such war time announcements are made out of a response to poor morale, a concession of imminent defeat, or an effort to direct some type of demoralizing or discouraging propaganda to one's opponents. On a scale of 1-10, how necessary was this? On the outside looking in, we don't see the things that you see - we rely on you to show us or tell us in some way. Announcements such as these are quite rare - normally there's some kind of [i]important[/i] information attached to the type of message that you've given us. Clearly, this isn't the case - which only leads one to wonder how your week has been thus far... Welcome to the war. Put down your bullhorn and pick up a rifle. You might gain a bit more ground that way.

[quote name='northstars' timestamp='1296007543' post='2601566'] Thanks for taking the time to bold the parts of your tirades that informed readers can skip. [/quote] Informed readers get informed by [i]reading[/i]. Uninformed readers get uninformed by skipping. It's a real easy concept when you think about it...

[quote name='Crowdog' timestamp='1296006406' post='2601527'] We do hate NPO. We do not want even the slightest chance to see them in power again. If our assumptions are true, and reasonably they may be, we can't allow any small chance of NPO ruling Bob again. We hate NPO, and we will not give them the chance. That's why we fight. [/quote] All you've done is help to ensure that they rule the world again. They are now the rally point for any sort of anti-hegemonist movement. Way to go.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1296003880' post='2601431'] No repentance? Or have they just not prostrated themselves enough for you? As for refusing to fill sanction requests, two things come to mind. If that's such an evil action, I suppose some maroon senators need to get rolled? I seem to recall a maroon rogue not being sanctioned being a small issue on the OWF some months ago. And did you even talk to Biff? If you did and were refused, why not roll CoJ at the same time? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PYU3Q.gif[/IMG] [/quote] Because they want Schatt on their side. As if [i]that's[/i] gonna happen....

[quote name='Crowdog' timestamp='1296001966' post='2601331'] And we are playing freely. By telling us that we can't declare war for whatever reason we want you attempt to enslave us into playing your way. You see, you are the ones who aren't playing freely right now and that's because your eyes do not know freedom. Doing the same thing day in and day out, the same way we have since 2007 is not freedom. Even Schatt would agree with that, or at least his recent signature would. [i]+ more frivolous perspective[/i] [/quote] I can truly understand how attacking other alliances and forcefully imposing your will upon them is "freeing" them, and how they were "enslaved" prior to your "liberation". Oh, and I can certainly see how Schatt, of all people, would advocate this practice and ideology of yours, seeing as how he effectively (and successfully) combated said ideology throughout numerous issues of TWiP. o.O

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1295995164' post='2601105'] No problem Care to mention what it is that would tip the scale in your favour? It must be my war hardened eyes, they can't notice such details My guess is that you overestimate the sway you'll have with people. Or your own skill when it comes to strategy and tactics in this war... But hey, whatever floats your boat [/quote] That's 100% irrelevant. This isn't about Polaris and what people think of it. This is about those who declare war for no reason at all, and what people think of [i]them[/i]. And my argument has nothing to do with this war itself - it has everything to do with what this war will cause after it's over with. You're going to see just how important something like "respect" and "honor" can be when it comes to politics. I promise.

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1295994461' post='2601078'] Yeah... Your superb politics skills have really tipped the scales in your favour it seems [/quote] As opposed to recklessly declaring unprovoked war? I don't even need to touch the scales... you yourselves have tipped them in our favor [i]for[/i] us. Hey, thanks for that by the way.

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1295994256' post='2601064'] At least I know that when a huge chunk of NPO's allies are in peace mode, the first counter can't be all that exceptional, and we'll get more time tearing down the infrastructure and drinking all the delicious tears of the alliance Or do they have some kind of secret weapon or ally we don't know about? I highly doubt it So in the words of o/ the glorious Emperor Blackbird the honourable \o, [b]bring it.[/b] [/quote] And that's your problem right there. You know a thing or two about war, but you know little to nothing of politics. No wonder "politics" is something you choose to ignore. Go with what you know, right? Much easier than [i]learning[/i] anything new.

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295994089' post='2601056'] Not much about MK than it does about your keen observational skills. http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=Federation%20of%20Armed%20Nations&anyallexact=exact cunning, sophisticated, and intelligent, you say? [/quote] Interesting. I spoke with one of their leaders last night who sang a different tune. FAN, you disappoint me.

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295993732' post='2601037'] Sure, son. Ill learn you some of the real history of CN when I have more time. [/quote] I'm sure you will. On a side note, I think it's interesting that FAN of all alliances (whom I fought against as a Pacifican during the FAN-WUT war) even condemns this attack on NPO. If there were anyone out there that had a right to hold a grudge against NPO for the past, it would be them. And today, they are just as cunning, sophisticated, and intelligent as they've always been. What does that say about MK?

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295993372' post='2601009'] Have you not looked at the joined dates between our profiles? I've been playing for 4 years now, there aren't many who have played longer than I so that "you'll learn, son" doesn't really do much for me. [/quote] Is that what you go by? I joined in August 2007. You're just a disinformation junction today, aren't you?

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1295992711' post='2600976'] These seeds will be well fertilized with the ashes of the Orders. [/quote] That may be, but in the end, it doesn't matter. The Orders can always get more infra. You guys, on the other hand, now have more critical problems than that. Maybe you just haven't been playing this game long enough to know how it all works.

[quote name='Crowdog' timestamp='1295990417' post='2600908'] Then we disagree on what is good and bad. But we can be the hero this game needs, even if it's not the one it wants right now. [/quote] I get the whole concept of "self-sacrifice" for the greater good. Question is, is this something that a select few of you dreamt up one day and decided to impose it on the whole world, including your own members? Through a particular lens (a very warped lens at that), this could be considered noble and honorable. In the end though, this cyberverse is what we all make of it - not what you and your pals make of it. And this will be remembered with contempt. The only "greater good" that's come out of this is that you guys have finally managed to sow the seeds of your demise.