SpoiL

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281553924' post='2411414'] I can understand but this has been GATO's stance for nearly 5 years. If people don;t know we won;t help militarily if you obviously are the bad guy in a situation then I don't know what to tell people. If they want to misconstrue that as cowardice I guess we can;t stop them. All our allies are aware of the stipulation in our charter. NSO knew it too. Most respond with "I wouldn't expect you to anyway." I think all of our treaties are non-chaining so we probably wouldn't defend an ally who is defending the obvious bad guy in a larger war. However, if you are obviously attacked without provocation, take Athens and ODN this last big war, we're with you all they way. In a way it prevents allies from making bad decisions too I would hope. [/quote] There's [i]always[/i] two sides to a story, so you can expect GATO to e-lawyer their way out of the losing side. This has been their policy for nearly 5 years, it's almost a constant of Cybernations. It's funny, because I already expected you to be piss poor 'allies', so one of the first things I wondered at the beginning of this whole spectacle was how GATO was going to try to get out of it. Then when we relieve you of having to weasel your way out of it, you still choose to hang yourselves. It's a shame that the only people that can count on you are the ones that statistically don't need you anyway.

[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1281405533' post='2408857'] At first I thought, "Ok some random, typical guy making a predictable post not knowing who we are since we are small alliance. That's Understandable." Then reanalyzed the issue and thought, "Wow, what an ignorant fool this guy is. He was an ally of GATO and had not even bothered paying attention to her treaties! All the more reasonings I am given to have me approve more of why this treaty become null and void!." Given the fact that you were an ally to GATO, and the fact that you are a government member of NSO, and had no idea who we were, it is really sad. If you were any other Bobian, I would have understood, but in your case, not so much. [/quote] GATO never informed us about you. Make of that what you will.

[quote name='xplicit313' timestamp='1281403512' post='2408786'] I see you've figured out how to type with your head up your $@!. You did a good job, not to many typo's. Now that you've got the tears going from crying so hard, maybe it'll loosen up for you so you can pull your head out? Other than that you've provided that you an indeed avoid the first point I made, and second that you can cry like a little school girl? Are we butthurt NSO? [/quote] Honestly, you should take a chill pill. A little too much passion on display.

[quote name='xplicit313' timestamp='1281402887' post='2408767'] Because D34th is the most original name ever [/quote] Good one

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1281382698' post='2408126'] If Heft is a rogue government member and NSO as a whole should not be held at fault for this situation, why not expel Heft from the alliance and let him work out his own peace with Ragnarok? If NSO really does not stand behind Heft's actions, but Heft basically just went over the deep end, shouldn't this still be a fixable situation? [/quote] He is not a rogue government member. His decision was entirely valid. It seems to have been made abundantly clear that the member was under our protection until reason was given to dismiss him. RoK attacked anyway. I don't consider it a good call. It was provocative regardless of its intent or validity. However, it was retaliatory. RoK attacked first.

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281380003' post='2408026'] 4. I don't think GATO could have done anything for NSO even if they did ask for help after all of this !@#$. Our charter relegates us to a defensive alliance. We CAN NOT intervene if an ally brings war upon themselves as is clearly the case here. Our allies should know this by now. If the attacks were unprovoked we'll ride with you til the end. [/quote] I'm pretty sure omni just called me a liar when I pointed out that fact of a defensive charter. Regardless, RoK was informed that the member was under our protection until we were given reason not to be. They attacked, I believe after claiming that they wouldn't. It would have been a better idea not to aid the nation to avoid any sort of escalation, but the fact is still that RoK made the aggressive move to which we responded.

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1281371920' post='2407745'] I'm not kidding anyone. [b]RoK was informed the nation would be under protection until further proof was provided.[/b] They initiated this process when they declared without conducting the due process of diplomacy. NSO, however, does not blow such petty things out of proportion. Why would we expect RoK to explode like a teenage pimple? [/quote] This hasn't been said enough. Even if GATO were informed whenever it was that they would have liked to have been, they still would either be canceling the treaty or at least not honoring it based on the idea that it was NSO committing an aggressive act when in fact RoK was equally informed that the member was under our protection until reasoning not to be was given. And GATO can't be on the side of the aggressor by charter, right?

[quote name='James Wilson' timestamp='1281370473' post='2407693'] Where was ours? [/quote] Wait hold on, so you didn't get the war memo at 4:53:14 PM Sunday EST?!! This is an outrage!

[quote name='Sir Sci' timestamp='1281367253' post='2407583'] Hoo clearly says that aiding someone who was attacking their protectorate would be an act of war. He says they would respond to that act of war with war. I'm not saying that RoK acted perfectly. I'm not saying that I agree entirely with RoK's actions. They really SHOULD have been more diplomatic. What I AM saying is that the NSO was clearly informed that if they sent war aid that there would be war. Period. NSO sent war aid. The chain of events is rather self explanatory. Perhaps NSO didn't expect for it to go down as fast as it did. That didn't change the fact that the NSO knew what was going on. That doesn't change the fact that the treaty stipulates that GATO would be informed of the situation. Run from a conflict that you didn't even ask us to join...that's the thing. OBVIOUSLY we didn't cancel the treaty because we were afraid of getting attacked, because you didn't even ask us to join. The treaty was voided by the NSO's actions. So, you held negotiations with RoK. You couldn't have told us about THOSE? By the fact that you had to have negotiations shows that you knew something was going on. I fail to see how this is a change in reasoning. I also still am struggling with the whole "war we didn't know about," since the facts clearly show you that you did know it was coming. [/quote] You don't deem our member a rogue without providing reasoning. Typically, you provide the reason and he is dismissed as a member and from our protection. A non-issue dealt with as a non-issue. In this case, they attacked our member. We defend our members. Yes, we even defend Heft, despite having taken GATO from us.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1281332777' post='2406715'] This was considered, but when I have three allies and people just hearing through the rumor mill what's going on telling me that NSO and RoK are going at it, before I heard anything from NSO it ticks me off. No cancellation clause needed NSO broke the treaty so it became void. [/quote] You are a disgrace. [quote name='Sir Sci' timestamp='1281333944' post='2406780'] The fact is that NSO violated a very basic and easily accomplished part of the treaty. The treaty requires that "The signatories agree to communicate with each other regarding any possible outside threats which may cause harm to one or both parties." The NSO violated this part of the treaty. The issue is not who the NSO is going to war with, why they are going to war, or even that they ARE at war. The issue is that they did not inform us of this at all. Instead, we were informed by multiple third parties who are our allies. For some reason the NSO did not feel like carrying out part of our treaty, despite the fact that all they would have to do would be to PM or query Omni, myself, or really any GATO government member. Therefore, they violated the treaty. In short, we don't appreciate our allies not informing us that they're going to get attacked when it is clear that they knew long before we were told third hand. Ya, e-lawyering for the lose, but they DID break the treaty. [/quote] I was attacked one hour after being ordered into peace mode. I didn't manage to make it into peace mode, in case you were wondering.

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281315390' post='2405634'] Who is more honorable, the friend who defends you without question or the one who waits for your cry for help? [/quote] Oh get over it for heaven's sake. The only idiots buying into this 'they are cowards' thing are the same idiots trying to sell it.

[quote name='TheThirdMark' timestamp='1281314169' post='2405533'] Someone, a rogue in this case, is at war. That someone, in this case a rogue, joins an Alliance (happens to be NSO). That Alliance, in this case NSO, didnt check that someone's, in this case a rogue, warscreen. That Alliance, in this case NSO, was contacted about the recent history. That Alliance, in this case NSO, insisted on letting this escalate. That Alliance, in this case NSO, committed one of the most clean Acts of War. And now you start whining about it? Thank you for showing your roots. [/quote] Someone, in this case Spoil, doesn't understand why someone, in this case TheThirdMark, is posting this way. "Contacted about the recent history" demands a "recent history" having been part of the dialogue.

NPO is so dead now.

It isn't our motto, but I thought it was clever. [quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1257923461' post='1961684'] We are New Sith Order and Windows 7™ was [i]actually[/i] our idea. [/quote] http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=73172&view=findpost&p=1961684

[quote name='the damned' timestamp='1280501019' post='2395003'] I must apologize. I was merely stating an opinion of mine about your alliance. Its my view that the NSO is just the yapping little purse dog offspring of the aging !@#$%* NPO whose sole purpose is to annoy the rest of the cyberverse until it is calmly kicked out of a third story window. Eventually you guys will fold back into the alliances that forged you or you will be the ones making the most noise while your guard dogs do the fighting for you. You think because you have a couple names from CN's history in the fold that you automatically have the clout that they once possessed. Im afraid that it isnt so. [/quote] At least they try? Sparta just sits there. Disband already..

I've been in each NpO, NPO, and NSO. I can't really count NpO though, I was new and hardly did anything.

Well isn't this fun [quote name='Tequila Mockingbird' timestamp='1280484575' post='2394908'] @OP: /s/ Tequila Mockingbird [/quote] Great avatar, had a laugh Melancholy Kingdom stays.

[quote name='Ardus' date='21 July 2010 - 04:40 PM' timestamp='1279744833' post='2383183'] There is none to be found over there. [/quote] Class. Get some.

[quote name='Jaymjaym' date='18 July 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1279497666' post='2377943'] You were pretty much the spokesman for pushing the legitimacy of ODN bailing on Polar, and now you are trying to take shots at them for it? [/quote] A full time job of which I'm thankfully no longer employed, let me tell you.

[quote name='joracy' date='18 July 2010 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1279482314' post='2377650'] By...uhhh, canceling a bunch of treaties? You've reduced your treaty count, which is cool I guess, but a lot of people are sitting around scratching our heads on what this actually accomplished, and how this is creating a new path. This isn't one of the those cases where you're going to get bashed either way because people dislike you, you're going to get bashed either way because you fixed nothing, and playing it off as some giant change in policy. I also find all the "we are still friends!" hilarious, when, pretty clearly, you aren't. Theres a time and place for that line, and it's in those few legitimate situations where that happens. Trying to spin a situation where thats not the case as being like that reeks of incompetence. You can probably stop trying to convince NATO et al that you still love them in public, and you don't mean to insult them and they were great and loyal allies. By the looks of things, they are reading you loud and clear. They just aren't getting the same message. [/quote] IRON clearly should have canceled these treaties on the brink of a large scale war in order to qualify up to ODN's standards.

Ivan Moldavi will be over shortly to establish the New Purple Order.

[quote name='magicninja' date='07 July 2010 - 10:11 AM' timestamp='1278511850' post='2362386'] It turns out I really didn't understand where Grub's animosity was coming from. I joined GATO and the world in June of 2007. That was months after GWIII and just after GATO had finished paying reps. I have since read about GWIII but it was mostly from GATO's perspective and I confess I never did seek out any real details of what went down. [b]It turns out GATO peaced out of that war without ever telling NAAC and possibly other allies that came to her defense that it was doing so.[/b] That is completely unacceptable. What makes it worse is some good alliances disbanded because of that war. GATO wasn't one of them.[/quote] Tragically ironic historical reminiscing Hey Grub..

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='06 July 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1278464879' post='2361865'] It is with great pleasure that we, of course, bicker with our brown friends (yes, the same color as poop in [i]most[/i] cases) in NSO. [/quote] Come now, don't hide your true feelings, you'll confuse the masses. Tell them what you really see: [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EKeRu2RiLJc/SiV151l9ZRI/AAAAAAAAJzY/wDnmO1g16S4/s400/tasteChocolate_578_editFB.jpg[/img] and a little [img]http://healthforu.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/health-care.jpg[/img] PS: Try dollar store brand 'blue milk' syrup.

I hear the sound of trembling.. [img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/29/100276794_548c83c4eb.jpg[/img]

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