Steelrat

I never denied that, how in hell i should have so much knowledge about polars internals back then? I thought it was blantant obvious that i had access to "leaked screeenshots". I called out NPO for attacking OV over that as hypocrites on a private board and i think even on OWF. Standard procedure in CN . CN is like diving with Sharks, you can do that as long as you watch your back and they aren´t hungry. Wait what? Now being smart is an offense to you, way to go Mr. ES.

Lol, i had the same thought in line as reply to ES rant. Honestly ES without you CN would be half fun For the rest of the folks, you can think what you want, Grämlins arn´t saints nor we are the moral police and of course we aren´t treehugger either. We are what we are, we play the game with our rules and if they don´t fit with yours ... meh, that´s the fun in CN. Edit: "Gre declared because Myworld and Random tried to push GGA to attack us over green. But mostly, they declared because I hated ES and NpO in general..... It was borne of my want for revenge over GOONS." ^^ This is from Boondock, yes.

It wasn´t quite like that and far more complicated. The war tides tuned up and down on a high level, the general rhythm was war for sure. It was like waiting for the last drop and even the smallest drop would have sparked the war anyway. So Grub and Polar walked into a minefield with us waiting to blow one off. At that point there were absolute no trust regardless of any word or action, everything was under a microscope and every word/action were interpreted as hostile. Don´t forget at that point there was less trust in Pacifica too because of the indifferent signals about Polar on the one hand you were protected on the other it was clear that the Orders weren´t get along well. Dynamic interaction with a lot of cross influence all around. I guess it was to late already for any true effort, Polar had -100points and to get to into positive it would have need a miracle. Pretty much summarized, this whole Polar thing goes back to the 2nd Green drama with GGA/Grämlins + the powerplay/wars Polar had against other alliances + those crazy treaty spree when Polar announced every day a new MDP. For us it was a clear sign that Citadel had a cross on their back. You may not had a detailed "secret kill TOP plan" but Polar would have jumped on TOP/Citadel any second you had a chance. Do i have you to remind Polars support/pushing in the 2nd Green drama? You clearly prepared for war and even announced it on your forum.

Absolutly. But i think that wasn´t possible anymore after the little Ivan incident. That coup/non coup with ES/Ivan/Moo in the middle of it + UJW war alienated Polar/Pacifica to much, trust were lost on both sides. If you like you can even go back further and say all that started with VE leaving WUT. Anyway i still think that Ivan incident in Pacifica was one of the most important ones in CN history, at some point i even thought, woooh, civil war is coming between Polar and Pacifica.

History day The Polar/Pacifica relations prior to the OoO cancellation were complicated. I´m still not sure how good or bad they were, how much was real and how much pretention and how much trust Pacifica still had in Polar and vice versa but the point is Polar was a threat to many other alliances and not only by rumors but by actions. I think many inside of Pacifica saw Polar and BLEU as a threat to their own hegemony and that finally lead to the OoO cancellation. As Hellangel already said, Continuum would have been dissolved far earlier if Pacifica not finally stopped protecting Polar and i can assure you all, Polar would have been rolled earlier without Pacifica. Saying it blunt, both Polar and Pacifica brought it upon themselves, if both of them weren´t that power hungry and sticked together nothing of what we see now would have happened. So to say ES dumbest move was to oppose Pacifica without enough firepower and making more enemies then he could handle. In that light i would say the biggest mess up was ES being to aggressive, made to many enemies, threatened to many alliances, in short powerplaying that backfired. Without that nothing what happened would have been happened.

One, Grämlins since September 2006

That´s a nice assist and it cries for an answer to portray you as a bad man, someone who can´t admit his faults or flaws but i´m not going that path. Let me point you at something historians should be used to, there is no singular reason for an event in history, any event has multiple reasons and a foreplay.

I have a complete other point of view. Think about it this way, after months of dealing with any sort of possible crap in an alliance you helped to build, including the charter, the spirit, you put endless hours of time into, you tried to improve and whatnot, Sam and others left. For me that speak volumes. I can´t imagine how bad the situation must have been, how worse the atmosphere when player now in TSO decided to leave after they worked so long for something they loved. Accusing them of abandoning is very easy if you leave out that those ones who left actually were the MXCA for a great part and most time, the ones who cared before, endless hours of hours. Think about how hard it must be to leave something you helped to build for years, how worse the situation must be when you decided to go apart and yet you try to portray them as bad people, sorry Gatherum but that´s not the usual Gatherum i´m used to know form OWF. I can only imagine the reasons why you act like that, one maybe to protect a former VOX member.

You don´t get it, i know that you were in the thick of it and you had clearly more insight of any obvious MXCA internal but you have no idea of the motivations and reasons behind TSO move and again espicially not of global politics. I´m not the man to speak for TSO here but i know it can be more then frustating to run an alliance of 80% inactives, to run into walls of blockading if you try to improve or change it. I know how it is to deal with selfish members, with members who think they can do better including enormous egos but no substance behind it. The list goes on and on and that is only a part of the reasons why TSO formed, i´m not going into the global politics here.

Fran, you have no idea about TSO and their reasons. You may try to honestly talk to Sam, Celt or Dragon. I know it´s hard as they have no reason to trust you and vice versa. You may have a glimpse of an idea what happened back then but you clearly have no idea of the motivation and reasons the latter TSO had. From what i read in your summary you scratched only the surface of anything especially of global politics.

^^ This and ^^ this Citadel private board can be quite shocking the first time you enter, it´s much like a rollercoaster, ups and downs but excitement, wait for you first loop and you know what i mean.

Including past and presence who shaped the game on a political public scale: Ivan Moldavi Dilber Moo Electron Sponge Archon Mpol Including past and presence who shaped the game on a political not so public scale and improved the game mechanics: Syzygy Including past and presence who shaped the game on a political not so public scale Crymson

IRC was there 3 years ago and will be here in 3 years, same for Skype although Skype wasn´t used that much back then but Skype is by far the easiest and fastest communication method with you FRIENDS. I can´t advise anyone to have an important meeting on Skype with your foe. Always do that on IRC and always have at least one more or less independent observer in it... you know altering IRC logs is just to easy, text and timestamps. About using backroom talkings and "private channels", this is still happening and will happen again more after the war cooled down but it won´t be used to such an extent as it was when everybody and their dogs feared to be rolled if disagreeing over the colour of the Sky Green or Blue . OWF is to much fun to embarass yourself or others to be not used.

Grämlins and TOP can be considered as main driving forces for the polar war. I don´t want to start the discussion again why that war happened, reasons, stories and plots behind it because you will have clearly another opinion as i have. I have no idea what exact reasons NPO had back then but from what i gathered it was a deep mistrust towards polar after the Moldavi incident, the delay and flipflop in actions from NPO were explained to me with the long sharing history between the rank and file members of both Orders and that such bounds can´t be easily ignored. I guess that´s one of the reasons why NPO protected polar for so long and mabye even the NPO wasn´t sure what to do with polar and their gov and advisors had different opinions how to deal with polar. There isn´t one particular reason more a set of individual ones for Grämlins leaving Q, our rank and file members were fed up with Q and a rank and file member started a poll which came out with a pretty clear majority (over 90% i think) to leave Q. Government can´t ignore such a clear vote. All in all you can say Grämlins didn´t want even indirectly lean their firepower to some alliance in Q anymore. I can´t say that the polar war and several actions from several alliances didn´t play a role for the clear vote to leave months later but i guess war brings out the best and worst in everyone seeing the true colours of each. The polar war was just the last drop to form an explicit opinion. Last argument, if NPO didn´t protect polar for so long the polar war would have happened far early and without that many Q alliances involved, if you like you can say it would have been a Citadel operation only. And with some attitude you can say we didn´t need Q for the polar war at all, Q was more a stalling element for a long time but as things have it´s own drive it just went the way we all know now.

You, you .... mean US, Grämlins? Wooh that´s a lot of credit and i guess you need always a conspiracy and puppetmaster, right?

Nice essay sums it up even for the ones who don´t understand e-lawyering and with that i congratulate you, i´m always runnnnnnnnnning when the lawyers start to discuss.

MHA, classy as always and again sticking to their concept MOSTLY harmless Much Härmlins love.

Good luck to GGA, chance for a fresh start. Hey Londo, it´s nice working with you, peace terms talkings in Karma can be a pain, i know . I hoped for no reps at all but overall the terms are fair. I gained a lot of respect for Athens, o/ Aqua.

Like that a lot. Mabye GGA will surprise us all, my best wishes for a bright future. Ahh and of course for Fan and VOX, too. ES i´m still waiting for a note on the Grämlins guides in the Lycaeum that they are outdated and using them at your own risk. Edit: Hmm You took it down?

To Valhalla membership, consider yourself very lucky, you fought a fair opponent and you got a 2nd chance not many can say that in CN. I don´t know if all Valhalla rank and file member have any idea how much bad was done in Valhalla´s name. I suggest to ask your leadership and the other parties involved about several incidents mentioned here, you may understand why some here on OWF are mad about you. To MK, you will never walk alone. To STA, i respect you a great deal, you will always find an open door at Grämlins. To Umbrella, FARK, Kronos, Poison Clan, Random Insanity Alliance, Coalition of Royal Allied Powers, Internet Superheroes and Alpha Omega ... one word ... Kudos

I pity you, you have no clue how Grämlins tick. Motu was in holidays and returned just recently. You can assume whatever you want but both of them were the unlucky guys in the pm lottery we had and both of them weren´t amused. Every Grämlins gov is fighting include me and we have and will never have any qualms to loose infra.

It´s official now: All hell break loose, the Apocalypse is on, Doomsday, all seals were broken and we see the 4 horsemen riding.

JBone, i have lost all respcet for you i had once. I thought you were an adult but your behaviour here is more like a child in a kindergarten group when nobody wants to play with you. Everybody can see right through this attempt of PR to smear FARK in public. I´m sorry but that´s to low even for you.

It happened again maybe this helps to find the bug and As you can see the usually empty fields to deploy Sodier and Tanks are already filled up, i didn´t typed it in it was already there.

Interesting so this whole stunt was a plot to convince me NPO was set up by others and is innocent?