Hereno

It sucks that you got raided, but it happens. Move on and learn your lesson. All you're doing now is making even more people want to raid you than would have bothered to before. It's counterproductive; that's how things work here, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, man.

Very much enjoyed reading this. Honestly I think the bias adds to it. Normal news doesn't make me laugh nearly as much.

[quote name='Deathistan' timestamp='1281742144' post='2415010'] Oh a little harder. please, im not going to be happy until you get a Grade 3 Concussion and PCS edit: spelling [/quote] That's a bit inappropriate, don't you think? [quote name='Hyperbad' timestamp='1281744861' post='2415077'] Both sides dropped the ball in how this was handled. *snip* The whole thing feels like it's blown out of proportion to how severe the issue really is. [/quote] This is basically how I feel about the events as of late. Hopefully, this will end with a handshake, an apology from each side, and white peace. Somehow, I doubt that'll happen.

I would proceed to war as a nation in any situation where my alliance had entered a state of warfare, and if I ran an alliance, that alliance would go to war only to either further itself politically/powerfully, or to honor MDP/MDoAP/MADP's with other alliances. When you enter an alliance, you basically sign an MADP with every nation in that alliance, and I think that honoring paper treaties is the most clear-cut way of going to war... because the CB can't be brought into question, even by the side you're attacking. Who gives anybody crap for going to war for those reasons?

Congrats on your accomplishment.

Yes to treaty obligation, no to moral, and while I selected 'no' for the third question, it would ultimately depend on the specific situation. In the specific situation in the OP, no, I wouldn't defend my ally. Although that would be violating the treaty, as long as the other alliance doesn't care about the violation, it's fine.

I don't agree wholly with the choices that GATO has made as of late, but I still think they're pretty good people. That said, this is a pretty interesting move. While ICAN aren't my favorite people, I do think that this is a good move. Why? Because ICAN seems to be obsessed with getting itself rolled and this tough-guy attitude, and this is the loss of a rather large ally. Not that I hate you guys, but it just seems like it's going to be inevitable with your actions as of late. There's a point where you're assertive, and there's a point where you can come off somewhat obnoxious.. :/

Honestly, the whole time during Karma was my favorite memory. It was the first worldwide war I had fought in, since I've only been around like 2.8 years or so. But honestly, participating in the last big war was fun too. I guess big wars are just the funnest times... I bet many of you agree xD

I lol'd. Also, green rocks. Good move IMO

Hey now, the Legend of Zelda series is very good, and a lot of people think they're really awesome. You'd guys better hope you can live up to that expectation

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281407596' post='2408904'] The war started 18 hours after the aid was sent. The entire situation unfolded in less than one day. The majority of the hours that it unfolded were at nighttime and all or most of us weren't on or didn't have much info ourselves to share with anyone. GATO was aware of everything I was aware of shortly after I logged on yesterday late morning, and I don't believe any other DC member was on IRC prior to that, certainly not one familiar with the situation. They seem to have been aware of more than we were, anyway. I realize that you are trying to approach this from a reasonable, fair perspective, so not trying to bicker or anything, but really the "communication" argument just seems to fall flat. [/quote] I feel like if GATO was able to get that much information from non-NSO sources, that there probably were things that weren't communicated as quickly as possible. That said, I do remember RV being sorta "Hey... you guys do realize how swamped we were, right?" really early along in the thread. I've never ran an alliance or been high up in a FA position, but I can infer that there would be a ton going on, given the situation. Also, allies were told to stand down quite early on. This provides some communication, as well as an excuse to have put notifying allies of everything on the backburner while other things were sorted out. However, I can see GATO being a little bit peeved that they weren't given any kind of ingame PM or something of the sort, out of common courtesy and respect for the treaty. If GATO never bothered to contact NSO after hearing something from another source about the situation, however, they're just as much in the wrong as NSO would be for not communicating. Those are all variables that I have no idea about, so I just made the best post I could without making an assumption which could end up being totally wrong.

Meh. I can see why GATO would be upset, although honestly I don't think waiting a day to inform you is such a big fault that it warrants the treaty being cancelled. This is especially so, because NSO specifically asked y'all not to get involved whatsoever - to protect it's allies from having to get involved. This shows a bit of maturity on NSO's side, and I feel renders the "lol they were stupid I'd have cancelled too" argument null and void. Which leaves the "they didn't contact us" argument, which I do understand. However, if you really felt the need to cancel the treaty over that, it was bad form to do it during the war, as opposed to after. Especially given that there was no risk of GATO being drawn in to the war itself, because of NSO's announcement telling it's allies to stay out. So, for that, GATO deserves a little bit of scolding. That said, I don't think all the claims of cowardice are really appropriate, either. Technically, the treaty was violated, which makes GATO in the right. Would I have personally cancelled the treaty? Probably not, no. Then again, I wasn't in the situation at the time. This cancellation, much like the entire war, feels like it was rushed and done without 100% completely thinking things through. I've acted without thinking things through before out of frustration and anger, so I certainly am not going to hold that against anybody else. Not everything has to be so polarized, you know. Thinking in terms of black and white leaves out countless shades of grey. Tl;dr: This is a really crappy situation, and sucks for everybody involved. Stop being such drama queens and get over it.

I really like the title of this treaty.

Have heard nothing but good things about any of them, so it's only fair to wish you all the best of luck. Good luck guys.

I love you Ragnarok. Keep being awesome

What a great idea. I hope you don't end up abandoning it

Wow, I'm still stuck between a few of them. Pretty much all of them were good, though. ...I wish I could make art like that :/ Edit: Ended up voting for Alfred's, but d34th's and dy's were also in my personal top 3.

Voted "no" and "no". I myself don't raid very often at all, because honestly it just gets in the way of building most of the time. That said, I'm not going to try to limit the choices anybody else makes. It's none of my business who anybody attacks. After all, [OOC]this is just a game. Besides,[/OOC] if somebody really has a problem with raiding on a singular scale, alliance scale, or a problem with unfair 3v1 raids, they should actually do something about it. Whining on the OWF isn't saving the infra of any micro-alliances or unaligned nations. On that note, I don't really see why "Well, we were just bored and didn't like you guys" or anything else similar aren't considered valid CBs. Most of them, deep down, are really just because group A doesn't like group B anyway. The least we could all do is just be honest about it.

I don't really know NEAT, but PPO likes them, and I like PPO, so I suppose I like NEAT too now. That said, congrats on the treaty, etc.

Good to see Ragnarok still employing some of my favorite people in gov

Y'all serious? First birthday? Tetris has been out forever... Congrats guys.

I support any treaty making reference to Gaga Have fun, y'all

Nice, keep up the good work

I expected nothing less from you, TC. Good luck, I have high hopes for the Pirate Party of CyberNations

I came in here expecting something more interesting >_> Have fun anyway.