Vol Navy
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Posts posted by Vol Navy
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Probably the most illuminating comments are the "our charter is our charter!" stuff. Yet when UE recently updated their charter in regards to tech selling the same group of posters threatened, whined and generally cried their poor little eyes out about how UE setting their internal policies was a rollable offense.
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Welcome back to white Sith. I was sorry to see you guys head off sphere in the first place.
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[quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1330049145' post='2927194']
Is there any proof of intent?
I've sort of skimmed through here so I could have missed something. So this is a legitimate question.
Is there any proof that MK did this with the intent of hurting anyone rather than just trying to score some tech?
Edit: grammar fail.
[/quote]
Well outside of the threatening posts about UE getting rolled over a deal gone bad by quite a few DH members, their general whiny disagreement with this entire policy, you have this from high MK GOV who ordered the ghosting.
[quote][16:06] <Teh1337Guy> Given I'm trying to protect the rights of tech buyers.[/quote]
This suggests to anyone with a brain that they weren't trying to just score a few slots of tech (which would probably be the dumbest way to go about trying to get a tech deal in Bob history). They were trying to screw with UE and this newly announced policy. You know this even if you are trying to play coy about it. All of Bob knows. -
[quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1330046049' post='2927140']
......
For ghosting someone elses AA to get tech deals? That's sort of harsh, no?
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This wasn't ghosting an AA to get tech deals, it was organized ghosting of multiple AA's to screw with another alliance. -
[quote name='RePePe' timestamp='1330038180' post='2927038']
Just look at the actual language.
It is pretty clear that it is an [b]offer[/b] and that it is clearly marked as to its purpose. The nation has full freedom in accepting it (agreeing to do the deal) or denying it (not agreeing to do the deal).
There's no way around the very clear language. If I use my presidential credit card to order some digital music from my nation's Itoons store, the owner of Itoons, Orange, can't take my money [b]AND[/b] not give me what I bought.
[/quote]
Well with this policy being a very big and well known public deal at this point, it'd be crazy to blindly send the offer to someone you hadn't spoken with or tried to work a deal out with before you send the aid.
Honestly it's completely idiotic to try and tech deal in that way any way.
The rest of this thread is hilarious. MK and allies in full blown shoot the messenger mode with HA/GRAM members now for "sinking to MK's level" is the funniest of all. -
[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1329979687' post='2926336']
LUE rolled. LUE rolled. LUE dies. MK is born.
Genmay rolled. Genmay dies. Umbrella is born.
Freshly merged Athens rolled. Much stronger Athens arises in its place.
I think that rolling people in general and burning tons of political capital doing it makes it harder and harder to stay on top. The stats argument is bunk, Umbrella's nations didn't even exist when the world was in full swing and now Umbrella is the most powerful alliance. Stats can be built. And moreover, you don't have to have many stats at all to help change the world - if you look at the makeup of Karma a lot of it was co-opted hegemony alliances.
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The world was vastly different then. Those alliances weren't truly rolled at any point. They fought very short wars in an era of much quicker rebuilding. That's why they were able to bounce back quickly. Had they been forced into a true months long 1 vs 3 nukefest they'd have never caught up with the victorious side enough for them to have any meaningful NS left to challenge the ruling powers. -
How simple is it to not send aid to UE if you aren't on their white list?
My cripes, must DH complain constantly about every single thing? This is UE policy. If you want to buy their tech, get on the list. If not, don't piss and moan if your aid slot gets tied up for extra time if you sent money uninvited and the return process has to take place. High gov of all the complaining alliances have posted in this thread, surely you can get word out to your members if this very public announcement can't. -
[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1329549620' post='2923240']
Just as members of Polar and STA and other simpleminded folk take the seven alliances that fought Polar in WotC and condense them down to just TOP for the purposes of their arguments, so do the same people, for the same purposes, take the eleven alliances to whom TOP paid reparations and condense them down to just MK. Like I said earlier, it's convenient for people to do these things for the sake of their arguments, but it constitutes a very obvious evasion of reality.
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MK has always embraced the role as the head of the snake. Much like NPO always got the blame for everything pre-Karma. They've taken that role post-Karma.
It will honestly never make sense of me why you guys forgave MK for their role in all this (which was massive). I honestly hope it was just for the political motive of getting to the point where you are now. But who knows, maybe you truly enjoy being in the position you are in, which to most outsiders is that of MK toadie. -
[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1329279290' post='2920869']
I'm inclined to believe you are mis-remembering that war. I know I declared on you at least once. So that discredits your "only one counter" assertion. And having a easier time getting into peace mode, yet only getting there twice in four months doesn't exactly make sense.
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I have no memory of fighting you at all, but if you say you did I believe you. If that's the case, you, a GOON that I can't remember but he went on to form an offshoot rogue alliance I believe, and Drai were my counters for 3 months of war. Serious question...did you actually fight or did you turtle? I honestly don't remember. Most of the MK I fought just sat there doing nothing.
And what I mean by having an easy time getting to PM is I was never staggered at all after the first round. It wasn't even attempted and it was to the point where I was actually filling staggers on MK nations to keep them from hitting PM. -
[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1329272473' post='2920806']
Hardly an argument for paper tiger status.
That's like saying TPF is still a paper tiger after being drained from everyone fleeing Slayer. Don't even try to argue you folks weren't a paper tiger after PC, the NEW members, and D34th's AA all left. TPF was absolute !@#$ after that.
Alliances reach their peaks. It has happened with alliances like TPF, TOP, and MK. Are you really willing to argue that these alliances all suck though? In comparison to their glory days they are all weaker, but MK and TOP are still nimble and organized fighting forces. I really can't judge how to categorize TPF because it was never in the same 'elite' category as TOP/MK.
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I honestly have no idea what this has to do at all with MK being so inactive during the DH/PB war that a good 25% of the alliance deleted due to inactivity after taking nukes for 25 days.
I have never fought TOP at all, but hearing from those who have, that level of inactivity isn't an issue when fighting them.
I know first hand from fighting MK, it was a major issue for MK. -
[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1329272553' post='2920810']
@volnavy, we took heavy damage that war because we were often fighting 3v1s or 3v2s in the upper tiers which puts us at a nuclear disadvantage. Also how did you have an easier time getting to peace mode than Rafael if you only were in peace mode twice throughout nearly 3 months. Your post is filled with stats that are proving a different point than what you're wanting them to say.
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Rafael was staggered quite a bit though out the war. I think he finally made it to PM late in the war. I was not countered. I was able to move in and out of PM when needed. I don't remember exact the number of times, but probably 2-3 times. No MK counters for me after the first round. You are the only member of MK that countered me the entire war and that was the second day in the first round. Later in the war I didn't even bother with going into PM because there was no need. No one from that side was willing to declare aggressive wars against me until a GOON finally did very late. This was fairly common in the 20-60k range. MK members who weren't in PM were swamped and staggered fairly successfully. -
[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1329270110' post='2920766']
Their activity, wonder ratios, and top tier make them anything but a paper tiger.
Just looking at MK's forum I can see that they've had 60% of their alliance check in today. That's probably better than every alliance in the game except maybe one.
Stop being ridiculous.
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MK may have forum activity, but it didn't translate in their wars. At least it didn't when we fought them during PB/DH. I've spent a lot of days fighting a lot of MK members the past few years. The fall off from Karma to DH/NPO was stunning.
They went from over 200 nations to under 150 during the war, mostly people just going 25 days and deleting after a few rounds of war. Several sat at ZI with multi-billion dollar war chests and never bothered fighting back at all. This was fairly wide spread in the 20-60k ns range for MK. They finally got a good portion of that area in PM but I was still allowed free reign with no counters from MK after the 1st round. Several of their members spent the entire war turtling in nuke anarchy and collecting on day 20-25. I fought Rafal Nadal 3 different rounds. I had an easier time getting in and out of PM than he did despite being vastly outnumbered. I literally fought from the 1st of Feb til late May with only a couple of 5 day PM stops to restock and got countered once the whole rest of the war, that by a GOON.
I was also never countered by any LOST or Athens members even though they'd DOW'd us. I did declare on several of them too. The guy from LOST was one of the few who actually fought back despite me having double his tech.
MK took similar damage during that war that most losing alliances would take. Which seems to be one of the complaints that had with Roq from what I can tell. I'm honestly not sure what Roq/Umb was supposed to do about it. They ran me from 100k to 50k in a round. After that I was only in Legend of the Skies from UMBs range and I fought a round against him. I think he at least nuked back a few times. -
[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1329209807' post='2920118']
That's because I don't believe you. Everything you say and do here is influenced by your vendetta against MK.
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Really, it seems at this point most of MK aren't even denying it any more. Just saying that Roq is just as guilty as they were because he was in on it too.
It's pretty much like he's betrayed the mafia at this point. Sure they were running a criminal empire, but that's not the problem. Spilling the secrets, that's the problem here.
But as always is the case in these situations, MK members/allies will crawl out of the wood work en masse to decry anything negative said about them.
I will say this, I've never gotten along with Roq all that much, but trying to say he's irrelevant is just ludicrous at this point. That's why his blog post lit up like the 4th of July and this one is steaming on for who knows how many pages.
I'm also not really sure how this is OOC as some are saying. It's in-game spying with in-game consequences and done in an exceptionally duplicitous manner by appearances. -
There are certain rules and protocols for existing as an alliance on PB. It appeared that AGW wasn't following them. NG made them go BOOM. Great fun was had. Good on NG.
(aka if you roll without treaties, expect your things to get broken) -
[quote name='rapmanej' timestamp='1328285868' post='2913808']
Even though you are grasping at straws and have had to rely on arguing over semantics.....
What could MK has possibly given Bob and Joe in return? You have set up a logical fallacy involving an either/or choice, but have given no logical explanation for either one being true.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma[/url]
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You really don't see what bending knee and offering a prized sacrifice to MK could potentially have done for RoK? I am sure Bob and Joe didn't see it as a way to improve RoK's political standing with the writing on the wall for MJ and get some revenge on Kaitlin for OOC reasons they had. They just didn't realize how disastrously wrong it would go for them. -
Happy birthday Tigers! I'm glad we finally landed on such good ground with you guys. One of the best allies anyone could ever ask for.
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Congratulations on 6 years, we've been brothers and sisters in blood and battle for closing in on 5 of them. Hopefully we can make it 5 more.
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There was a DOW.
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98685&st=0 -
[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1327517449' post='2906680']
Because no C&G alliances, to my recollection, declared on TPF. We declared on Legion. That might explain alot of why people didnt think we "did much." I also dont recall ever being asked to hit TPF.
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Whether there was an official DOW or not I can't remember. But we fought at least Athens and LOST during the war. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1327229671' post='2904678']
Can you name them? That's what I'm curious about. I named three guys. I don't think Zeke ever came out.
I know that some of you fight hard, but the issue is, all of your 50k+ was pmed for the most part. Like when has Deathcat fought in a while? I'm sure he's disappointed about it.
Yes, I understand your struggles, but there was no real need for you to stay at war during Karma, for instance. That was a weird choice. I mean if you had hit VE or RoK to begin with, but I just don't see the logic in staying at war when you only declared on one small alliance and then staying at war with people not fighting NPO. I mean NPO didn't care that NATO left after a week or something.
Compare the state of your alliance to STA for instance or Polar(they never really go without taking damage). One war where everything is wiped out is a lot worse than several where it isn't. I know the TOOL merger(TOOL usually took minimal damage in wars as a peripheral alliance) has masked losses a lot so my statement extends to them. I don't really have much of an issue with TPF outside of the moral indignation over various things and gloating over PM from people like HHAYD. I think mhawk has no clue in terms of politics and he shouldn't really play drama queen. I don't care about the UjW at this point. I mean, honestly, my ass was still going to be on the line to defend you(Fark cancelled Umbrella over it lol) even though OBM and others said we were going to side with RoK/Athens and that we wanted TPF destroyed.
Like I said, I'm not part of some "Roll TPF" movement at this point even though the idea is funny. Where's TCK?
I guess reading about mhawk's idea to sit out every war as if it was a plausible strategy and wait for some imaginary MK/TOP vs PB war gave me a really lasting impression of your alliance. I just can't respect something like that.
The fact that he presented it as an official position apparently when it wasn't really true is another thing.
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TCK has departed the planet, as have some of the others who fought during PB/DH.
Link Gaetz and I fought the same MK/Umb nations in PB/DH and he went to ZI in that war. He was top 5 in TPF pre-war. Desperado was top 10 in TPF and fought that war. He's since departed the planet as well.
Out of all of our nations above 50k NS there are only 4 or 5 who were in TPF during Karma. The rest are mostly nations that have merged in over time since then. Most of our top tier consists of former DOOM and TOOL members.
As for Karma, the people who stayed in TPF didn't care about the shape of our nations at the point Pacifica got peace and were willing to take whatever else anyone wanted to pile on over the Poison Clan issue. It may have been stupid, but at the time Poison Clan had just broken the NAP to attack us. And Mhawk was honestly hoping to mend that fence, which is why we didn't roll them when we had the backing of tC. I had no issue with staying in the war that long even though I went from a top 200 nation down to about 12,000 ns by the end of it. Some things are more important that NS.
During the last war, we ended up with PM stays from some of our top nations much longer originally planned due to foot dragging from a certain purple alliance. But the 50k barrier didn't matter. There wasn't any pressure below 75k in that war. I fought in and out of peace mode from 35-50k the entire war, picking and choosing any target I wanted. I was countered one time during all the rounds I fought, by a GOON.
MK actually took it very hard that war to have been on the winning side. Umbrella sat out of reach, and GOONS only had about 5 nations between 30-50k to take off the pressure. And for whatever reason the various CnG alliances that DoW'd us didn't really do much fighting at all. As it turned out it was the last days for quite a few of them as individual alliances before merging into TLR. -
[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1327242654' post='2904734']
Goodie for you. And if your alliance's history started with the Karma war, you might have been able to lay claim to some kind of high ground. But it doesn't, and you can't.
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I am not trying to claim any kind of high ground. Just stating the facts. Our alliance has taken massive damage since Karma.
Maybe someday you'll get over your grudge against us, but since it's been nearly 4 years since we fought, I have to doubt it at this point. -
[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1327165389' post='2904217']
No, your assertions are BS and hypocritical simply based on precedent.
TPF's upper tier outside of JBone, Vol Navy, and Bosko really, sat in PM and made !@#$%* propaganda in the interests of post-war preservation in the last war. The alliance that was actually mocked for being pansies ended up sending most of their upper tier into the grinder and then got mocked for doing it in a ham fisted fashion and then they got dropped by the alliance they clung to forever for no real reason. Invicta went all out more or less, dropped as well.
In this war, they peace moded significant portions of their upper tier while making empty threats to WAPA. They hit an overmatched target that everyone knew was overmatched from the start given the consistently low ratings of FAN by people in this thread.
MLP alliance did the same thing.
IRON peace moded their upper tier against Gre in the Ram thing and not all of them came out, and it was the smart move for them.
IRON peace moded their upper tier in this war and then it didn't really have to do anything to do anything because Fark hit NPO. I don't really see it as cowardly.
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You are incorrect. In DH/NPO 5 or 6 of our pre-war top 10 nations came and fought. Which was about the only thing even resembling an upper tier we had at the time.
I am actually fairly sure that we've been on the bad side of war more days since Karma started than any other alliance on Bob. -
[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1326387615' post='2898131']
Aye, you might get to my beer fridge, but it won't be through that boulder. Terrain features channel your advance. Similarly, historically whomever you send after TPF will bog quickly in nuke anarchy and not be of any use elsewhere. The more you send, the more forces get bogged down. That helps me at the strategic level in a number of ways.
As for the balance of your comments, let's get back to my first post in this thread...there is a reason that I rate TPF as 'good' and Nordreich as 'elite'.
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Flinders has hated us for going on 4 years now. He's not going to give us credit for anything.
We trimmed a lot of fat during Karma and I'd say we've fought more total days than any alliance on Bob since then. We have experience. Over 80 percent of our members have the MP, so even our lower tiers are going to be brutal for most alliances. We do not run, fold, disband or walk away from fights. Honestly, we aren't that tech heavy, but that goes back to the fact that we've spent so much time in nuclear war for the past 3 years. I've personally lost over 12000 tech during that time.
Even in a losing effort last war we brutalized MK's under 60k nations during DH/NPO and that was while also fighting Athens, LOST, GOONS and some others.
Honestly out of DH MK took it very hard. UMB were out of range to fight us, GOONS was mostly too small to fight a large portion of us. That basically meant we had a slight numbers advantage on MK until CnG hit us and honestly they weren't that effective either. I would declare on two nations and only got one counter the rest of the way after the first round of DH/NPO. -
[quote name='lebubu' timestamp='1325984028' post='2895195']
TPF members can confirm that MK had a piss poor performance in the Karma war and barely pulled its own weight. Not much has changed.
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You are probably being sarcastic, but you guys rocked in Karma. I was kept at war for 7 consecutive cycles, about 80 percent of it by MK members.
I was stunned at how far you'd fallen during the DH/NPO war. I came in and out of peace as I pleased and pretty much waded through a sea of near inactive nations who sat on multi-billion dollar warchests but would hardly do more than lob a nuke occasionally. And I did that for weeks on end in the 35-60k ns range.
Out of that entire war, after a first round against Rafa Nadal before he deleted (went on to fight about 2 more rounds against him) Drai, Uncle Stalin, and 2 Umbrella guys I pretty much cruised through everyone I fought from DH/CnG except for one GOON and one fellow from LOST, who fought back but was overmatched at 35,000k ns range due to my tech.
As for people I've fought over the last few years.
MK in Karma was a 9. MK in DH was a 3 outside of Drai in the first round for reasons mentioned above.
PC in Karma was a 7-8. Better in the higher NS ranges, a bit worse once you dropped below 40k.
Umbrella was an 8 in DH, but can really only fight most alliances for about a round before most of them have to drop out and send aid. I caught a couple of their smaller guys at the time out of peace mode and went through them pretty easily. But they only had about 2-3 nations below 70k NS at the time if I recall correctly.
FAN this war, not very good. They waste money, in some cases that they do not have to spare. Fought a guy at 55k ns/7000 infra who only had about 130 million in the war chest and still for reasons beyond me rebought navy until he just couldn't afford it any more. Others have managed to burn through over 2 billion in this war. They mostly turtle. Occasionally launch a nuke and CMs.
Let a goon talk long enough . . .
in World Affairs (IC)
Posted
[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330415059' post='2929865']
This would be a good argument if not the fact that it was an [I]External[/I] facing policy that prompted the DH statement, not an internal one.
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And parts of your charter about attacking other nations in other small alliances or unaligned nations is not an "external" facing policy?
UE's policy dealt with how they'd handle their aid slots/tech sales. But that was bad because DH didn't agree with it and doesn't like UE. Therefore their tech selling policy became DH business in many DH members' eyes.
GOONS policy is about how they handle their war slots/raids but that's fine and it's your charter and other people should mind their own business.