Seerow

This is the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny good guys, bad guys, and explosions as far as the eye can see and only one will survive, I wonder who it will be this is the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny Also, epic thread is epic.

No, land being razed is not captured. When attacking a nation that is X days innactive (forget the exact number but it's like 13 days or something), all land is destroyed rather than captured. This was implemented to discourage raiders from hitting innactive targets.

-When you take the time to read all 19 pages of this thread -When your excuse for starting your memorial day weekend a day early is that you came back to CN after a 2 month absence, and started reading a 20+ page topic, 10 minutes before leaving for work. By the time you look at the time again, it's 8:30 and you realize you may as well just call in.

Forcing anybody to reroll is impossible. I'm living proof of that. More than a year in PZI from NPO, and managed to get off eventually about 2-3 months ago. Old Grudges die eventually, people will eventually feel placated enough to let them off the hook, things eventually return to normal.

I for one have never been fond of threesomes. But I'm sure Valhalla has at least one ally other than NPO out there who likes them. We'll work something out. We have nothing but time, these terms assured that. Edit: Oh hey I see Nigras 519 volunteered. Sounds like we're set.

I just want to comment on this comment and others like it. Since when has how much the alliance surrendering lost EVER factored into reps? It's always been a factor of what is possible with the alliance at its current statistical value. Most of the NS lost was from overbloated infra nations taking massive nuke hits. These people once the war ends will still have most of their tech in tact (so they can send tech as reps), and will likely be able to use their warchests to get back up to at least 5-6k infra, which is more than enough to send out 18mil in aid, and then still have about as much to spare in free money going to rebuilding warchests. billions in cash would in no way cripple any alliance of IRON or NPO's size. Even with their upper ranks decimated for war purposes (yes they dont have 20k infra nations anymore. baww), economically the smaller nations are just as fit to send money. And those too small to send money are more than capable of generating and sending tech. IRON, NPO, and any other similarly sized alliance is more than capable of meeting reparation demands of billions of dollars and thousands of tech, even after a large scale nuclear war. The question is if they're willing to do it. Of course to render the whole point moot I'm advocating removing all aiding ability of the alliance. If the alliances feel they are too crippled to send reparations to the victors, I feel they must also be too crippled to help their own smaller and mid sized members. As such all foreign aid to any member within the alliance should be restricted. It saves those mid sized nations some money, but it also means no rebuilding money being passed around within the alliance. Given the options between reps and no aid at all, personally I'd take the reps. But to some alliances just not being able to aid at all may seem like the nicer option.

MK never had that kind of NS to lose so it's not a valid example. When paying reps, your NS isn't the issue, the number of members is. NPO still has plenty of members capable of producing money to send out maximum aid while still rebuilding themselves, and more still who would be capable within 10 days of war ending. The more accurate comparison would be at the end of the UJW MK had ~25 total nations capable of sending aid. This is including those who rebuilt themselves instantly from warchests. How many do you think NPO will have at the end of the war? Just judging by the peace mode nations they have several times that. I'm sure they have others with war chests to get even more. Regardless it's all gonna be irrelevant because any argument made will fall on deaf ears. The alliances actually at war with NPO are generally smaller alliances, or alliances I havent heard of, there's just a lot of them. Given Karma's penchant of only alliances at war determining terms, I fully expect the NPO to get light terms. That said, I would whole heartedly support NPO getting off with no reps whatsoever with the extra condition of no aid at all for the duration of terms. Internal or External aid is banned, any NPO nation with an aid slot filled is breaking terms. That I think would be as effective or moreso than any extraordinarily large amount of reps, without seeming extortionist and going against the karma ideals.

So after reading half of this monster of a thread I got pretty bored. Just got this to say: See you on 8/10/2009 Valhalla.

No, but reps approaching what has been imparted on other alliances for far less cause would be fair. There's a difference between harsh terms and requiring disbandment. We also thought Valhalla and other large alliances would be getting massive reps. We see how that worked out.

To be honest I think that everyone should be given terms equal to those MK had scaled for size. Since the NPO decided that in reps you can exchange 50 tech for 3mil, that makes the 82k tech translate into roughly 4,920,000,000. If you use a more normal ratio (1.5mil for 50), it's 2,460,000,000. Convert that into money or tech as you prefer at the ratio desired, then scale it for size. So for the NPO still sitting pretty at 830 nations, if they got peace today it would be 13,612,000,000 in reps (using the 1.5mil for 50 scale). You can convert that to tech and call it 450,000 tech. This should be applied to all enemies. Just to see who is actually capable of doing it. I honestly don't think most alliances are up to it. Oh and make sure to add on a 60 day maximum time limit. I'm pretty sure that's what NPO put on post UJW for their money. (Which btw if I recall correctly the terms were met with 20 days to spare) Of course we won't see reps approaching that because Karma's loaded with a bunch of !@#$%*^ who are afraid to demand anything resembling actual reps for peace. We'll see a round of 100mil reps that get paid and everyone settles back into doing nothing. But hey, you never know, somebody might grow a backbone.

God no. My friend plays EVE and personally I can't stand the game. Keep your EVE out of my CN.

Hrm it must be that extra 4 months I had that $%&@ed me up then. Cause it made me innactive to the point where I missed the war. Kind of made me sad when I came back and found out. Alas, you win some you lose some.

I voted NPO will win. Simply because, GW1 Style, they will twist things around until they have convinced themselves and everyone else they never actually lost the war, but instead fought to a standstill and forced terms. Karma has shown themselves extremely lenient, not only in letting go of some alliances who really were there just as a part of the treaty web, but also for some of the assholic alliances that should have been $%&@ed up a lot worse than they got. Valhalla is an example that immediately springs to mind that got a easy peace. If this trend continues, it is likely NPO will get light terms. And of course in the annals of history it will be forgotten that everyone else got light terms as well, the whole thing will be construed as an anti-NPO plot that failed, and NPO fought to a standstill. Because of this it is my opinion that NPO should be given not only harsh terms, but also a term that explicitly states that the NPO admits it has been defeated utterly. Make sure it is crystal clear, and impossible to spin to indicate otherwise. But then I have no say in this as I have no .gov position and am in an alliance not directly at war with the NPO. I can only offer what should happen, not what will. In fact it is my belief that Karma has shown itself as ineffective enough thus far at giving anyone anything resembling difficult terms, that I don't think it will. Which is why I voted that NPO will win in the end. I hope Karma proves me wrong, but I think they don't have the guts to do what they set out for, and will give NPO victory for it.

Time flows like a river, and history repeats

Please don't make me quit :/

Go take 10 more shots of anything strong, and it'll make sense to you. I promise. Or you won't mind so much that it doesnt make sense. One or the other.

Interesting decisions. Don't recognize most of the people up there, but then NSO is small yet. We shall see how these first councils fair.

[ooc]Thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to take a look at those books then. Not sure how much you are into non-browser based video games, but if you have a half-decent PC or X-box, KoTOR would be worth playing since you indicated you haven't before.[/ooc]

First, as to the geekery, I must say I love the reference to the sith code. Was that ripped straight out of KotOR, or is there another game/movie/book that references that? Also: As I understood it, that wasn't actually a rule of the sith, but more a case of how things were handled. Remember, the rule of two was never brought up by a sith, but was mentioned by Yoda, saying that anytime one sith was found, that they came in pairs. You'll notice that when the sith ran things, Jedi operated in the same way, you'd have the master and the apprentice. Sure Palpatine never got any more apprentices after banned member, but that was because he was afraid of a threat. In the story preceding the movies, there were academies of sith much as the jedi academy on Couresaunt. I believe that it's more the practice to stay hidden to stay with only two at a time. The master would always have an apprentice etc. But I digress. The point here is that it is well possible for there to be more than two sith, just only two at a given time when the Jedi are actively prosecuting them. Now that this New Sith Order has unveiled itself, you can have as many as you wish. Now if you want to be strictly adherent, separate the master's and apprentices, and try to keep them strictly even. But that's more trouble than it's worth. [/geekery] As to the topic of the NSO, good luck to Ivan. It will be interesting to see how far this new project goes. To be honest I never took Ivan as the star wars geek type, so this came as a surprise to me. I'll be keeping an eye on how this goes to be sure.

So Ivan, I notice you got some money. Lucky me I just got some too. And have just a slight head start in NS. Race you to 5k infra (Any war against either of us of course invalidates the race of course).

And how could this Giant among men fail to live up to their expectations? Surely if anybody can bring about change to this wasteland we call Bob it is Ivan, is it not? Edit: Also please don't tell me I need to put sarcasm tags around this.

Real men drink milk.

Hi Ivan. My name is Seerow. Glad to see you back.

Took you guys long enough.

As a very small nation with no land to speak of, I feel these changes are moving the game in the right direction.