Branimir

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300382648' post='2667838']And yes, diplomacy is a two way street, a street which you seem to refuse to walk because of your hatred of the outside world.[/quote] If you believe that the tamed NPO leadership post "karma" and among the BR mostly composed of people that joined post "karma" and in vast majority werent around for many of things usually mentioned hate for the parts of the world was present-- then I will be very interesting to see your definition of what our attitudes will be towards those that attacked us out of the blue for no reason. Laughed out laud. We mended many bridges, and bettered many relations. Those which doors were closed to us of course, couldnt.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300380848' post='2667820'] ... and engage in diplomacy. [/quote] To add to what Moldavi said, that diplomacy indeed is a two way street. As far as I am aware, you didnt ask for an embassy in our halls, nor did I saw you much in our irc avenues. Strange, considering how we with NpO were there when you incarnated, but ok. We didnt preach you about that, save yours then as well.

Once you are attacked on the basis of a foreign policy design saying-- "not giving you a chance, ever"-- based on no CB, provocation or reason for war as recognizable by their understanding here, what really is the point in settling for peace anyway? As showed, we will be attacked first opportune moment again, when we grow too large for comfort of our current attackers. DH DoW was clear. So better then to be in the permanent formal state of war, then pretend some kind of "peace" nonsense. It has only been 2 months, sweeties.

If it would be private--it would be no good. If it would be public-- its no good. Whatever, there is no pleasing some in the peanut gallery, so it makes it a more up front, honest move as it opens us to our haters to take a field trip on slinging mud-- it is well worth it to say things we needed to. As the apology states, nor do we have illusions this will make right with FAN. There is no right here now, no magic fix. History can not be changed. But it still needed to be done, and the feeling is genuine if too late. For what its worth, it is what it is and it is here, finally done. Hopefully it means something to FAN, if not-- cant blame them. The war will go on either way, I feel. And that is all I have to say about it-- random biased attacks on it, and on my alliance from randoms here are not in my focus.

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300188732' post='2665486']Ah, so if anybody wonders what the hell you're talking about when you're not making sense, you don't feel pressured in answering them. [/quote] It does not make sense, only in your head. I also owe nothing to goons, and feel no pressure, need or will to do anything on their asking.

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300188221' post='2665482']How does making it public give it more weight? Who in their right minds thinks that[/quote] Our Imperial staff. Maybe they gathered something from on going talks we have with FAN representatives. As said, I dont really know the answer, but also, I dont really feel the need to learn the answer for you as we dont owe you anything. Think what you like.

[quote name='DogeWilliam' timestamp='1300144644' post='2665019']An unconditional surrender and promises of much reps to FAN might make them think you are sorry.[/quote] That is not being sorry, that is being spineless. No reps, no unconditional surrender. Just war. Why it was made public while it only goes out to FAN, is maybe to give it more weight, to show our utmost seriousness about it. That question I can not answer really, but it seems to me the obvious answer. About gathering sympathy of the masses, what a futile endeavor would that be for the New Pacific Order-- resident evil of the world, with half of the planet defining their existence on opposing the Order menace (of all three flavors). No, it definitely isn't about that. It is something that we had to do, what was owed and deserved. Ever forward.

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300124217' post='2664692']Current times? The only apology I've seen the last year or two from any noteworthy alliance would be your apology to FAN which if I understood things right, you claim is sincere.[/quote] Noteworthy alliances? I suppose one can always invent categories to try to fit things into them. Our apology to FAN, is unrelated example due to the fact that-- it is not a surrender term, nor will it end the war. It is a thing we owed and needed to do. And so we go on a tangent. Anyway, thanks for reminding me why all this devastation occurred. Hope it was worth it.

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300123452' post='2664683']Yeah I miss the good old times when the ones that lost the war were forced to state that any claims the other side made were true and then appologize for them.[/quote] Good old time? If you mean old as current times, then ok. I dont know, if its good enough to start a war, in which utter devastation is inflicted upon hundreds of nations, I just figured such a thing is important. Could be that it is forgotten due to the fact it was bogus from the start which then begs the question-- why all this devastation.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1300122706' post='2664667'] Hint: it had something to do with NpO willingly accepting spy information. [/quote] Really now? That is fascinating.

At this point, I have no idea why this war was waged in the first place-- surrender instrument as well does not give any light on this puzzle. Good rebuilding NpO.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1300120333' post='2664623']I seem to recall NPO issuing a lot of apologies pre and post Karma War...[/quote] You recall wrong. Only one apology was given, on our own accords-- to GATO. [quote]I'm not seeing a rationale for yet another apology.[/quote] Only second in our history, which was made on our own accord. The rationale is simple-- it was deserved, and yes it took us all this to realize it. History will not change, there is no magical fix here, war will rage on but something that we needed to do was finally done. Now what you think of it, is completely irrelevant to me or anybody in NPO. While public, the apology is directed only at FAN-- if they do not care for it much, it is understandable. If third parties do not, it is of no consequence to us.

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1300049758' post='2663309']Why have we seen an apology to FAN, who are currently attacking them, but not to GATO or GPA?[/quote] Apology to GATO has been given, during Moo's reign. Again, this is public so everybody can comment on it, but at the same time third party comments do not matter for this apology.

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1299989544' post='2662327']Then what took so long in saying it.[/quote] I suppose history needed to catch up with us. I can only say that BR in vast majority showed support for this (most of it wasnt even around back then anyway). War will go on but this needed to be said and it is now. Third party banter is really irrelevant to NPO here, you all can say what you will.

The war will continue. What was done will never be undone. But, what needed to be said, what was owned in words, was said. And so we fight on.

[quote name='Karolina' timestamp='1299707290' post='2657958'] So, your side whines when you're attacked with no official DoW, and they whine when they're attacked with an official DoW? I'm seeing a pattern here... [/quote] ? All meaning of the term "whining" is lost here I see,... My Comrade was making a joke which was also a jab directed at all the "left field" DoWs made in the VE-NpO and DH/FAN-NPO wars, treaty wise. Obviously, here this isn't the case, and we have an expected and understandable action by TOP. Please, use some more common sense and not your generic "must mindlessly critique a NPOer" mode. Nothing much that can be said about the DoW, all straight forward stuff. All that remains to be said is-- all the bad luck to you, TOP

They are hardly worser then any other block out there. Actually, I do not particularly mind RnR, RIA, or FARK as an extended member. It is true that a demise in their power is evident, even further, their future existence beyond this war is under question considering how they are fighting on different sides putting block unity under strain I am sure. But at least they have some member alliances that politically can garner some kind of respect as not total !@#$bags of no value from me. This thread and the gist of it is more about GOD (its leader) as I took it then really about that block which is currently acting dis-unified (fighting on different sides) and I am not quite sure will remain for that much longer (though could be wrong).

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1299264571' post='2652591'] But you are winning this war, right? Since you are so easily beating your enemies don't you want to take one more out? Hit two birds with one stone. I know I know, when your coalition is already surrendering and others are joining the other side to beat you down it's hard to convince everyone that you're actually winning, but I won't let their facts deter me from what Pacifica has told me. Pacifica propaganda > facts. I just don't get why no one outside of the NPO is buying that. [/quote] I have no idea how is that a response to anything I said in the post you quoted, or anywhere really. I am sorry but as usual, the unrelated random nonsense that you typically produce has yet again made me laugh at the sheer silliness of it. Thanks mate Though to not deteriorate this thread, which is to communicate with you further, I will just stop here.

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1299260325' post='2652548'] It is what they want it to be and as their is no rulling political body on Bob who are you to say any different. If FAN and NoR choose to agree to something who are you or for that matter who am I to dispute its validity. [/quote] I am a member of the targeted alliance, hence directly concerned. I said in my first post that my stance concerning their "gentleman agreement" is mine. Obviously I can have it and express it, and obviously other people can form other positions.

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1299257035' post='2652521'] I remember another guy who refused to recognize the obvious... It didn't work out well for him either. pic [/quote] OOC- If you are unable to make an IC post in an IC forum only as a response to my post then you should not bother. IC: Your under the table agreement is not formal political tool and as such does not bear the same implications.

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1299252808' post='2652475'] Under most circumstances, I'd probably agree with you. However, over the last couple of weeks I have made it abundantly clear that an agreement between FAN and NoR existed. Between my own blog posts, comments in others' blogs and comments here, I'm going to guess that I've mentioned it half a dozen times, if not more. Furthermore, some will recall that our Declaration of War during Bi-Polar specifically referenced our agreement with FAN. As secrets go, this has to be one of the most poorly kept.[/quote] We did not see the terms of this agreement and its conditions, meaning we do not then know what it exactly means so ultimately its whatever you say it is at the moment you refer to it. As such its secret and non tangible to us. Then ultimately in my understanding it is non material and something that I do not recognize or can. So henceforth then it is my personal view that this is a yet another war of aggression on my alliance without tangible reason, or without CB as understood in CN politics. As such it is a grievous act that has far reaching consequences, a random act of aggression which can only breed utmost hostility. And so it will.

[quote name='Vinzent Zeppelin' timestamp='1299214822' post='2651960']The people of Nordreich and the NPO have our own history with each other, but that is neither here nor there.[/quote] Oh, I know were it is now and were it shall stay. I do not recognize secret treaties, as there is no reason too. That is just my attitude, though.

Nothing much that can be said now then, thank you and good luck.

Actually, it is two persons.

Well, that is very transparent of you. We should now ironically hail xiph for forgetting the "larger plan" of destroying NPO,... although the war he is fighting has nothing to do with NPO,... but it all comes back to it. Even if NPO does absolutely nothing, the grand plan is always based on NPO. That is very cool actually.