A discussion on tech raiding

[kulomascovia]

Hello Planet Bob

Before I start, I want to make it clear that this is not a discussion on the morality or impact of tech raiding. This is a discussion on how to prevent tech raiding and how to effectively assist tech raid victims.

Tech raiding has been a growing concern for many in the cyberverse. I am sure that there are many of us that disagree with this abominable act and wish to make planet bob a better place for independent and unaligned nations/alliances. There have been many attempts to prevent tech raiding throughout our history by concerned individuals. However, most attempts have either failed or do not help the majority of the unaligned. I also notice a distinct lack of action by many who oppose tech raiding. This is why I invite all who share my view to suggest and debate methods on preventing tech raids and assisting victims of tech raids. You may post your ideas here, send them to me via PM, or go to #kulomascovia for a real time discussion. Hopefully, we can all work together to implement our plans and make Planet Bob a better place for independent nations.

Thank you.

[Timeline]

Unless you have someone eith power to support you nothing will change.

I hate to say this, but what NPO has done for red protecting them from raiding is starting to be a good idea, I hope others such as Sparta who controls Black, or IRON who controls orange, even NpO who controls Blue would step up and enforce the same protection, but with a little extra stopping alliances like FoA from been attacked with out reason, in order to protect there own colours.

[kulomascovia]

Suggested ideas:

- A protected AA for the unaligned with minimal restrictions

- Sphere protection by large alliances in each sphere

- Setting up a tech raid response committee to send aid and informative material to tech raid victims

- Contacting unaffiliated alliances and offering protectorates / a light treaty

That's all I can come up with.

EDIT:

Unless you have someone eith power to support you nothing will change.

I hate to say this, but what NPO has done for red protecting them from raiding is starting to be a good idea, I hope others such as Sparta who controls Black, or IRON who controls orange, even NpO who controls Blue would step up and enforce the same protection, but with a little extra stopping alliances like FoA from been attacked with out reason, in order to protect there own colours.

Yes, that's one of my ideas as well. We could petition these large alliances to protect unaligned nations in their own sphere. It may be difficult to bring about change with little power but I think if I can talk to different alliances leaders and get their support for my ideas.

Edited January 17, 2010 by kulomascovia

[Locke]

I hope others such as Sparta who controls Black, or IRON who controls orange, even NpO who controls Blue

I'm sorry, but I started laughing uncontrollably right around here.

- A protected AA for the unaligned with minimal restrictions

Done: http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel_Trading_Company

Edited January 17, 2010 by Locke

[kulomascovia]

I'm sorry, but I started laughing uncontrollably right around here.

Done: http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel_Trading_Company

What else can we do?

EDIT:

Yes, I know about the citadel trading company but that's not an AA with minimal restrictions. It's a tech farm for the Citadel and what I'm thinking of is an AA which you can literally join (if you're not attacking anyone) and get protection automatically without going on forums and going thorough the pointless bureaucracy that turns off many small nations. Basically, a shelter for the unaligned until they can find another alliance.

Edited January 17, 2010 by kulomascovia

[Godwin]

Correct response to tech raiding: Fight back and give 'em what for, OR join an alliance, OR if you're in a small alliance, get a protectorate.

Incorrect response to tech raiding: Whine on the forums.

FoA got raided, yes. But then they got a protectorate, and raiding stopped. I see nothing wrong with what happened there; People who don't want to fight should put themselves in a position where they can defend themselves.

[kulomascovia]

Correct response to tech raiding: Fight back and give 'em what for, OR join an alliance, OR if you're in a small alliance, get a protectorate.

Incorrect response to tech raiding: Whine on the forums.

FoA got raided, yes. But then they got a protectorate, and raiding stopped. I see nothing wrong with what happened there; People who don't want to fight should put themselves in a position where they can defend themselves.

Again, I'm not here to debate the merits of tech raiding or the morality of it. I'm here to take any ideas on how to prevent tech raids and assist tech raid victims.

[Acetone]

Again, I'm not here to debate the merits of tech raiding or the morality of it. I'm here to take any ideas on how to prevent tech raids and assist tech raid victims.

That's what he gave you. If you don't want to be raided, join an alliance. If you don't want your alliance to be raided, get some allies. If you want to help tech raid "victims", recruit them to your alliance and send them foreign aid.

[wickedj]

Correct response to tech raiding: Fight back and give 'em what for, OR join an alliance, OR if you're in a small alliance, get a protectorate.

Incorrect response to tech raiding: Whine on the forums.

FoA got raided, yes. But then they got a protectorate, and raiding stopped. I see nothing wrong with what happened there; People who don't want to fight should put themselves in a position where they can defend themselves.

Yes. all of the above

to further expand, FOK protects its tech sellers for up to 24 hours after the tech deal has finished i believe. NPO's protection of red was a great idea on paper but in typical fashion it failed because they had a court and all this other fancy crap that wasnt needed and most times the raidee got smashed into the dirt and run off..but thats for another arguement

if you truly want to curb tech raiding, talk to some of the bigger AA's on your sphere see if they are willing to set up a protected AA. new nations would be encouraged to fly said AA(Dont Raid Me Bro ) and you would be tasked with not only making sure the people flying the AA arent on ZI lists or doing any raiding themselves but making sure they arent being raided and then when they are you have to play diplomat and get these people either to end the raid or pay some form of reps

all in all its a PITA process and you're better off recruiting anyone not aligned or offering protection to small alliances

[kulomascovia]

That's what he gave you. If you don't want to be raided, join an alliance. If you don't want your alliance to be raided, get some allies. If you want to help tech raid "victims", recruit them to your alliance and send them foreign aid.

Well, that's what we have right now and it's not very effective at helping tech raid victims.

[Godwin]

Again, I'm not here to debate the merits of tech raiding or the morality of it. I'm here to take any ideas on how to prevent tech raids and assist tech raid victims.

Morality doesn't exist. I hate how that word gets thrown around left and right without half the people using it actually knowing what it means.

Well, that's what we have right now and it's not very effective at helping tech raid victims.

It does work. An alliance getting a protectorate stops getting raided. That simple.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Godwin

[kevin32891]

I never tech raided in my life, but I do support of tech raiding people who aren't in an alliance.

I don't support alliance tech raids, that's just me.

[Phetion]

Again, I'm not here to debate the merits of tech raiding or the morality of it. I'm here to take any ideas on how to prevent tech raids and assist tech raid victims.

Then don't provoke an emotive response when you call something that one person enjoys 'this abominable act' just because you disagree with it and then claim you don't wish to argue the merits or morality of it.

Two way door.

[kulomascovia]

Yes. all of the above

to further expand, FOK protects its tech sellers for up to 24 hours after the tech deal has finished i believe. NPO's protection of red was a great idea on paper but in typical fashion it failed because they had a court and all this other fancy crap that wasnt needed and most times the raidee got smashed into the dirt and run off..but thats for another arguement

if you truly want to curb tech raiding, talk to some of the bigger AA's on your sphere see if they are willing to set up a protected AA. new nations would be encouraged to fly said AA(Dont Raid Me Bro ) and you would be tasked with not only making sure the people flying the AA arent on ZI lists or doing any raiding themselves but making sure they arent being raided and then when they are you have to play diplomat and get these people either to end the raid or pay some form of reps

all in all its a PITA process and you're better off recruiting anyone not aligned or offering protection to small alliances

Well, if they are being raided when they joined, then the raiding party will have to end their raid since the raidee is protected. That's what happened in the case of FoA I believe. Reps won't be necessary for damages done when the raidee was not wearing the AA. If a nation flying the AA is on a ZI list then that nation does not get protection.

You are right, the plan does have some its flaws. Want to make any suggestion on how to fix them?

[Acetone]

Well, that's what we have right now and it's not very effective at helping tech raid victims.

What is a tech raid victim? If someone raided me with four ground attacks and offered peace, even if he won all four I'd be right back where I was in less than a week. Raiding someone does minor damage, yet you act like every tech raid constitutes a full blown 7 days war with 6 nukes.

[astronaut jones]

The only problem with tech raiding now is in the idea that there shouldn't be membership limit when it comes to raiding, so long as they have no treaty.

I started that, at the time I thought it was right, now I don't think it is. Most of the raiders now are giving it a bad name, most raiders again have no respect for the people they're raiding, or for those they have to deal with, and they seem to revel in being an !@#$%^& when it comes to the treatment of other players and those that voice their concerns about their questionable practices.

People don't have a problem with raiding, they have a problem with the attitude of raiders, and their practices of highly opportunistic raiding (FoA), and in raiding alliances that are much, much too large by common decency standards (Athens/Knights of ni! incident), and in the attitude that the raiders have when people actually say "what the $%&@ are you doing? Why are you being such an !@#$%^& here?" (Both cases.)

[kulomascovia]

It does work. An alliance getting a protectorate stops getting raided. That simple.

Sorry for being unclear. It does not prevent tech raids on unaligned alliances and/or nations.

Then don't provoke an emotive response when you call something that one person enjoys 'this abominable act' just because you disagree with it and then claim you don't wish to argue the merits or morality of it.

Two way door.

Oh, I'm not saying that one shouldn't argue about the merits of tech raiding. It's just that it would be off topic in this thread, which was designed specifically to deal with suggestions on how to prevent tech raiding. Anyone can feel free to send me a PM or talk to me in #kulomascovia if he/she disagrees with my position.

[Derwood1]

This whole thread makes me lol!

All FoA needed was a treaty and no one would have attacked them, simple as that. Where were all the do-gooders when Sparta canceled? It takes about 2.5 minutes to set up and announce a temp-protectorate.

[astronaut jones]

This whole thread makes me lol!

All FoA needed was a treaty and no one would have attacked them, simple as that. Where were all the do-gooders when Sparta canceled? It takes about 2.5 minutes to set up and announce a temp-protectorate.

I doubt people realized that you would jump them the second their 72 hour cancellation period expired.

You KNOW that was a dick move, and you know that you shouldn't have done it. If you want people to once again take raiding as an acceptable practice, you better stop being a !@#$@#$ !@#$%^& when it comes to the way you treat both the raidees and the public at large when they see what you've done, and think you messed up.

And that's the thing about PC that I just don't understand. You guys KNOW how to raid, you guys know what to do, and you know how to treat people, so why, all of a sudden, are you guys deciding it's okay to play the part of the !@#$%^& in all of this? I know twisted, and if he's allowing this now, then he's really not fit to be a leader.

Edited January 17, 2010 by astronaut jones

[kulomascovia]

What is a tech raid victim? If someone raided me with four ground attacks and offered peace, even if he won all four I'd be right back where I was in less than a week. Raiding someone does minor damage, yet you act like every tech raid constitutes a full blown 7 days war with 6 nukes.

A tech raid victim is anyone who has been successfully raided; the attacker has managed to profit at the expense of said nation. You may be fine with being raided but I would think that the majority of nations on Planet Bob would mind having their hard earned resources stolen by an opportunistic attacker. Also, most tech raid victims are low ns nations who are likely to give up hope should they get raided. If you want to discuss the definition of a tech raid victim or what its possible effects are, please feel free to send me a message or visit my channel.

The only problem with tech raiding now is in the idea that there shouldn't be membership limit when it comes to raiding, so long as they have no treaty.

I started that, at the time I thought it was right, now I don't think it is. Most of the raiders now are giving it a bad name, most raiders again have no respect for the people they're raiding, or for those they have to deal with, and they seem to revel in being an !@#$%^& when it comes to the treatment of other players and those that voice their concerns about their questionable practices.

People don't have a problem with raiding, they have a problem with the attitude of raiders, and their practices of highly opportunistic raiding (FoA), and in raiding alliances that are much, much too large by common decency standards (Athens/Knights of ni! incident), and in the attitude that the raiders have when people actually say "what the $%&@ are you doing? Why are you being such an !@#$%^& here?" (Both cases.)

I agree with you. Most tech raid victims are treated like dirt by their attackers and left to deal with the aftermath with no help. That's why I believe we should help victims of tech raids.

Edited January 17, 2010 by kulomascovia

[Cortath]

The New Pacific Order maintains its opposition to tech raiding, and specifically, maintains its opposition to the tech raiding of nations on the Red Sphere.

[Acetone]

A tech raid victim is anyone who has been successfully raided; the attacker has managed to profit at the expense of said nation. You may be fine with being raided by I would think that the majority of nations on Planet Bob would mind having their hard earned resources stolen by an opportunistic attacker. Also, most tech raid victims are low ns nations who are likely to give up hope should they get raided. If you want to discuss the definition of a tech raid victim or what its possible effects are, please feel free to send me a message or visit my channel.

Hard earned resources? You can't be serious here.

[Lord Fingolfin]

Personally, if I ever went unaligned and got raided by \m/ or PC or anyone else, I would respond by immediately declaring on 3 nations they had in my range, preferably ones without SDI's. I would subsequently PM said nations and all the government of the attacking alliance stating that I would nuke each of those 3 nations 7 times before my war expired and if they went into peace mode would subsequently do the same to another batch of nations in the next round of war, if the raids on me weren't immediately ceased and they agreed to both never raid me again, as well as paying reps to the tune of 300% what I sustained from the raids. Assuming that I lost ~20 million, I'd expect ~60 million back in some tech/cash combo. And, if they're smart they would pay it, because having 3 nations in the 40k range nuked 7 times each is going to cost them a lot more. Actually I'd probably turn a tidy profit by doing that enough times. Someone try that and tell me how it goes

[kulomascovia]

This whole thread makes me lol!

All FoA needed was a treaty and no one would have attacked them, simple as that. Where were all the do-gooders when Sparta canceled? It takes about 2.5 minutes to set up and announce a temp-protectorate.

Yes indeed, all FoA needed was a treaty. Do you want to suggest an organized method to grant unaligned alliances quick protectorates?

Hard earned resources? You can't be serious here.

I am serious.

[Godwin]

Personally, if I ever went unaligned and got raided by \m/ or PC or anyone else, I would respond by immediately declaring on 3 nations they had in my range, preferably ones without SDI's. I would subsequently PM said nations and all the government of the attacking alliance stating that I would nuke each of those 3 nations 7 times before my war expired and if they went into peace mode would subsequently do the same to another batch of nations in the next round of war, if the raids on me weren't immediately ceased and they agreed to both never raid me again, as well as paying reps to the tune of 300% what I sustained from the raids. Assuming that I lost ~20 million, I'd expect ~60 million back in some tech/cash combo. And, if they're smart they would pay it, because having 3 nations in the 40k range nuked 7 times each is going to cost them a lot more. Actually I'd probably turn a tidy profit by doing that enough times. Someone try that and tell me how it goes

Thank you, Fingolfin. THIS is the kind of attitude people need to have. If you get raided, FIGHT BACK. Don't go whine about how unfair it is that you got attacked.