The Pacific Press

The longer they go hippie the smaller their warchests get. I am fine with it.

The longer you fight us, the smaller your will becomes. I look forward to your surrender.

hahahahaha

Enjoy your permanent war, and I'm sure TPF will too after this.

It would be more of an enjoyment if we could fight you. Feel free to make our day, Toughguy.

Uhhhhhhh Sandwich is currently at war with three TPF nations.

Pacifica you fail to grasp a little irrelevant thing called "context." In the past when you imposed harsh terms it was over bull@#$% reasons. Karma's CB is solid. Had we schemed and created a CB out of nothing for you, then imposed harsh terms, and only then, would we be anything like you. Harsh terms are not the issue; CBs, yours in the past and ours now, are what really matters.

Also I hail you for your courage to hunker down and fight for the next X number of years. Its certainly better than accepting terms.

My, how quickly your stances change.

Nothing changed. Had NPO only declared war because of valid reasons it wouldn't be so hated. Ah well you guys are apparently quite intent on not learning anything in all of this. One can tell that the NPO membership is generally quite deranged by all of the comments to the effect of "karma must be getting desperate." LOL.

So declaring war against an alliance that confessed to conspiring with Blackstone Collusion, an espionage ring, and then refusing to punish their member is invalid?

What?

And by the admission of your own glorious leader, NPO does the exact same stuff.

But its okay when you guys do it mirite?

I'm not privy to peace talks not being of upper leadership in any alliance anymore.

However I would assume that the logs posted aren't full, and there's more to them that would indicate a chance for peace. My assumption is that the 30% of NPO that is in peace (compared to the 5% GATO was persecuted over as was indicated by somebody else) coming out of peace was a preliminary term that was given that has been so soundly rejected.

That's the the point,We can't move forward on an assumption."Come out of peace so we can destroy your ability to rebuild" isn't preliminary terms to anything we're aware of.

The point is when you're on the losing side you're not in the position to make demands. Unless NPO's members in peace come out there will soon reach a point when their remaining membership is not able to cause significant damage as what's left of warchests get drained and even those with MPs can no longer get their nukes and stay over 1k infra.

When things get to that point it will be interesting to see if NPO is any more willing to conceed to the demands that they exist peace mode or if they will stay there in hopes of one day getting peace with lesser terms.

We haven't demanded anything other than to know what We would be agreeing to.If it's unconditional surrender then say so.

sorry doubled

I really don't get why NPO thinks their "banks" are so important. Nations can only receive up to 27M per 10 days, providing both the sending and receiving nation have the "Federal Aid Commission" wonder. It's not very likely both nations have this wonder, since the entire NPO has only 8 of them. So we're probably talking 18M or even 15M per 10 days. This way, you need 2 months (!) to get about 100M, and you need at least 5 or 6 banks per nation aided for this to work.

How can you base the rebuilding of your alliance on these pathetic numbers? 100M in 2 months helps none but the very smallest nations to gain some infra. It's pocket change to most players more than that it is proper rebuilding aid.

Uhhhhhhh Sandwich is currently at war with three TPF nations.

You missed my point. I was attempting a little sporty joisting over the war by asserting that Sandwich isn't doing enough to be noticed.

*note: I have to take a bathroom break, as diarrhea sucks. I'm also only up to the end of page two, so if i suddenly stop posting, you'll know why. *

especially diarrhea of the mind, no doubt

This might have some truth it were it not for the fact YOU FORCED GATO NATIONS OUT OF PEACE MODE IN THE GATO-1V WAR. Congratulations on being the biggest hypocrites the cyberverse has seen.

It is a choice. You have the choice between your honor and your nation. That's more of a choice than anybody on PZI ever got. Comparing the two is an invalid argument.

And hey, if NPO prepared for war like a smart alliance by having nations with large warchests for rebuilding rather than relying a small segment of bank nations to do rebuilding this whole thing wouldn't be an issue. But NPO's strategists prefer to use the 'vaunted hippy shield' as they've so kindly put it in the past.

Evidently we have failure to communicate here,My statement is this.If it takes my individual surrender to save my nation then there isn't a choice.If it takes Pacifica accepting terms that will lead to it's destruction. Then that's not much of a choice is it? But that was the purpose of these "instructions" in 1st place wasn't it?

The use of peaced banks is still a viable tactic, a tactic I might add that Karma also employed.

Oh will you $%&@tards just get off it.

Having your entire top 100 nations in PM is not a tactic

its being a bunch of !@#$%*^

$%&@ the pc crap

thats what it is

and you know it

There's nothing forever about it. Nobody (on the Karma side, anyway) wants eternal war.

Nobody is a strong word.

I don't think many people on Karma want it, but there are definitely some.

The Pacifican reaction here is based on the actions taken by the Karma coalition. As I've said before, you guys are making the exact same mistake with them that they made with FAN, and they're reacting to your actions in the same way that FAN reacted to their actions.

I really don't get why NPO thinks their "banks" are so important. Nations can only receive up to 27M per 10 days, providing both the sending and receiving nation have the "Federal Aid Commission" wonder. It's not very likely both nations have this wonder, since the entire NPO has only 8 of them. So we're probably talking 18M or even 15M per 10 days. This way, you need 2 months (!) to get about 100M, and you need at least 5 or 6 banks per nation aided for this to work.

How can you base the rebuilding of your alliance on these pathetic numbers? 100M in 2 months helps none but the very smallest nations to gain some infra. It's pocket change to most players more than that it is proper rebuilding aid.

Take a look at the large number of young nations in NPO right now, and then you can probably get this question answered.

Your terms were absolutely absurd, ours are not.

Your terms are not absurd? Threatening to add numbers to an as of yet undecided number that you can pull out of thin air at a later date, if we don't jump off a cliff? These are historically unprecedented in their absurdity. So absurd that there isn't even a hint that there would be a gain for us if we complied.

These terms, along with the rapidly changing language of Karma (as it sways back and ever more forth from 'moral' justification to power-political justification), demonstrates well the real reasoning behind this war -- the removal of a political competitor for the Karma elite.

Actually, Vladimir, these terms are not unprecedented. Ivan Moldavi gave the NAAC an ultimatum in Polar War II, ordering them to surrender or face reparations that would increase daily.

If anything, it should be encouraging, since white peace was given to them shortly afterwards.

The terms are ridiculous and I believe you are correct in rejecting them. The next set will be more favorable.

This is an extremely interesting comment. I hope people notice it.

Somehow I doubt Karma will follow NPO's example from so long ago, but it is still ... interesting.

This kindler, gentler, moral Planet Bob you are attempting to create will remove the only sanctuary for nations who do not wish to participate in war. Sounds rather oppressive to me.

The only sanctuary? I see 2 other sanctuaries.

1. GPA oh wait nvm. Lets go with TDO.

2. Peace mode. Quit playing admin.

Like GPA, TDO is susceptible to attack, but, then again, so is NPO.

I respect any alliances right to let things out in the confidence of their own forums, however revealing these arrogant responses to surrender terms really ought to make 'karma' alliances think twice before offering you terms again. And I dont mean because they need to come up with better, more-NPO pleasing terms.

As I stated a little earlier:

Enough of this PC crap and attempts to reason with asshats.

You Polar pieces are acting like every other two-bit bully in

the history of everything ever has; once they've had their asses

handed to them on a plate, that is.

YER WHININ' PURE AND SIMPLE

LIKE A PATHETIC LITTLE B I T C H

man up and face the fact that

someone finally came along

that could take you

It is a choice. You have the choice between your honor and your nation. That's more of a choice than anybody on PZI ever got. Comparing the two is an invalid argument.

And hey, if NPO prepared for war like a smart alliance by having nations with large warchests for rebuilding rather than relying a small segment of bank nations to do rebuilding this whole thing wouldn't be an issue. But NPO's strategists prefer to use the 'vaunted hippy shield' as they've so kindly put it in the past.

Evidently we have failure to communicate here,My statement is this.If it takes my individual surrender to save my nation then there isn't a choice.If it takes Pacifica accepting terms that will lead to it's destruction. Then that's not much of a choice is it? But that was the purpose of these "instructions" in 1st place wasn't it?

The use of peaced banks is still a viable tactic, a tactic I might add that Karma also employed.

Oh will you $%&@tards just get off it.

Having your entire top 100 nations in PM is not a tactic

its being a bunch of !@#$%*^

$%&@ the pc crap

thats what it is

and you know it

The top 100 didn't all start in peace they just weren't staggered very well.It happens when you have this many alliances all vying for targets, the coordination suffers.They made it to peace and will help rebuild Pacifica after the war.So you may be correct, the move is more strategic than tactical.

I find it hilarious that someone from a bloc calling themselves "Karma" would be concerned if anything was too PC or not.

As I stated a little earlier:

Enough of this PC crap and attempts to reason with asshats.

You Polar pieces are acting like every other two-bit bully in

the history of everything ever has; once they've had their asses

handed to them on a plate, that is.

YER WHININ' PURE AND SIMPLE

LIKE A PATHETIC LITTLE B I T C H

man up and face the fact that

someone finally came along

that could take you

We're Pacifican, not Polar

Interestingly enough I have found out that Sparta and other Karma alliances did not even know about these alleged Karma terms. Could it be that Ragnarok is being a bit presumptuous and stepping over the line? The reaction of one Sparta government member was pure shock and anger.....at Gen Lee.

As the Karma Turns.

That "Sparta Gov Member" must have been out to lunch for a several days. These "alleged Karma terms" were common knowledge. Your propaganda machine is outdated, Call 1-800-free-fan, for the updated software.

It is a choice. You have the choice between your honor and your nation. That's more of a choice than anybody on PZI ever got. Comparing the two is an invalid argument.

And hey, if NPO prepared for war like a smart alliance by having nations with large warchests for rebuilding rather than relying a small segment of bank nations to do rebuilding this whole thing wouldn't be an issue. But NPO's strategists prefer to use the 'vaunted hippy shield' as they've so kindly put it in the past.

Evidently we have failure to communicate here,My statement is this.If it takes my individual surrender to save my nation then there isn't a choice.If it takes Pacifica accepting terms that will lead to it's destruction. Then that's not much of a choice is it? But that was the purpose of these "instructions" in 1st place wasn't it?

The use of peaced banks is still a viable tactic, a tactic I might add that Karma also employed.

Oh will you $%&@tards just get off it.

Having your entire top 100 nations in PM is not a tactic

its being a bunch of !@#$%*^

$%&@ the pc crap

thats what it is

and you know it

The top 100 didn't all start in peace they just weren't staggered very well.It happens when you have this many alliances all vying for targets, the coordination suffers.They made it to peace and will help rebuild Pacifica after the war.So you may be correct, the move is more strategic than tactical.

I find it hilarious that someone from a bloc calling themselves "Karma" would be concerned if anything was too PC or not.

and i find it equally hillarious that yall are getting yer asses kicked

As I stated a little earlier:

Enough of this PC crap and attempts to reason with asshats.

You Polar pieces are acting like every other two-bit bully in

the history of everything ever has; once they've had their asses

handed to them on a plate, that is.

YER WHININ' PURE AND SIMPLE

LIKE A PATHETIC LITTLE B I T C H

man up and face the fact that

someone finally came along

that could take you

We're Pacifican, not Polar

a !@#$%* is a !@#$%*

no matter which side of the street

she's hooking on

ahem...

You Pacifican Pieces .....and so on

Take a look at the large number of young nations in NPO right now, and then you can probably get this question answered.

Right. So these smaller and younger nations will be rebuilt using aid from the "bank nations". And how is a bank nation defined? A nation having lots of economic improvements/wonders and a lot of money, right? Shouldn't all nations have such a policy? You need a lot of banks anyway, because of the inefficient way aid is handled in CN, so basically all nations except the smallest and newest ones are banks. And these are the nations NPO won't allow out of peace. There's your problem right there.

well it's karma ... http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=21476

The top 100 didn't all start in peace they just weren't staggered very well.

The following nations have engaged in wars:

1. Kingdom of Dark (one cycle)

40. Xanzaria (two cycles)

44. ROMA CAPUT MUNDI (one cycle)

46. Elendil of Twilight Renegades (one cycle)

49. junnyyo of Egerian Empire (two cycles)

53. LiTHiUM0480 of Klondike (at war)

54. Seti Cruncher of SetiCrunchers (at war)

56. Epsilon of Dekuyper (one cycle; apparently left NPO)

59. Feuersturm of Feuersturm Empire (one cycle)

61. Shiite of Mahdi (at war)

63. Master Splinter of Unicron (three cycles)

64. Magus Rules of Magusland (at war)

65. lordtyrion of Aryan Alliance (at war)

66. Kevin the Great of Buckmaster Land (one cycle)

68. il7thangel of Virimonde (at war)

69. yohon of Nevindia (one cycle)

70. Kinky Kahn of Celltopia (one cycle)

71. kxs of Strømmonia (two cycles)

72. Williambonney of Lincoln county (four cycles)

75. Zeta Defender of Powerious (at war)

76. hx239 of hx239 (at war)

78. King Symba of Symbaland (two cycles)

79. Jesse End of Devon (at war)

80. DarkMistress of Jamon (at war)

81. flameboy of Metropolia (two cycles)

82. Slywolfe of Slywolfe (one cycle)

83. Arcades057 of Delray Beach (at war)

84. TrilobyteMan of Trilobyte Land (at war)

85. Moriar of Csdia (one cycle)

86. smoking1976 of Gardiewonka (three cycles)

89. Xantha of The Vale of Aldur (one cycle)

90.-94. (at war)

95. Azr726 of Azrdonia (four cycles)

96. Polemarch of Doria (two cycles)

98. andit13 of HItman World (one cycle)

97. 99. 100. (at war)

So, what you say is broadly true in the lower part, 75-100: 23 of these 25 nations (92%) have fought at least once. This fits with what I heard about difficulty in staggering in the 20-40k range. But higher up, it is simply a lie. Only 14 of those in 50-75 (56%) have seen war, and five of the top 50 (10%!!).

And several of those nations that did see war in the first wave and managed to escape have been hiding for almost a month now.

It's called "bank nations" and "nations re-arming."

Gee, I think I mentioned somewhere previously that only 30% total is in peace mode. No comments on the other 70%, eh? Don't worry, we'll fix that selective memory for you right in a jiffy!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but virtually none of your nations now in peace mode have cycled in and out before. Over 230 of them were already in peace when you started this war. Try to spin something you can without making yourself look like a liar.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but virtually none of your nations now in peace mode have cycled in and out before. Over 230 of them were already in peace when you started this war. Try to spin something you can without making yourself look like a liar.

No, no, those are "bank nations". They apparently have over 200 of them at Pacifica, otherwise they can't rebuild. You see, it's immoral to demand that we attack that quarter of the alliance we're at war with.