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Why Is Karma Fighting?


Eretz Yisrael

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Written by Cortath:

Why is Karma Fighting?

Azaghul's post on the World Affairs forum brilliantly highlights the problems of Karma: are they fighting a defensive war, or are they fighting a war of revenge?

This, I suppose is the crux of the matter, and where the divisions in Karma are clear.

If it's the former, I think the actions you are taking should be clear.

But many seem to favor the latter, and speak out for harsh reparations. There are implications here.

Firstly, how far back are we going? Are those alliances presently in Karma, who have sided with the New Pacific Order in the past, or who have benefited from "harsh reparations" going to be joining Pacifica in giving out reparations? Will the Grämlins be giving back tech to the New Polar Order? How about Umbrella? Or TOP? Will Ragnorak give back money and technology to Neuva Vida?

Secondly, it seems to have been forgotten that TORN, more than the New Pacific Order, was in favor of the actions against Ordo Verde. Will TORN be asked for additional reparations at the conclusion of this war? Or rather are they the pattern we are to follow, meaning the NPO will be receiving very light terms?

Thirdly, why so much talk of GATO? You're not in GATO. GATO isn't with Karma. GATO isn't fighting. If GATO wanted to fight, they certainly could. If GATO wanted you to be their spokespeople, they certainly could do that too. I can't help but notice all the parading about of these "Defenders of GATO." Did you defend GATO during the war against them? Did you help GATO rebuild after they were released from their terms?

I would direct you to Chairman Kevlar's recent statements on the matter. He's stated quite plainly: what happened between GATO and the NPO is for us alone.

Fourthy, if this is ushering in a new, moral order, can you tell us about it please? We'd like to know what's going to be against the rules the next time we play. Is Karma going to be the great United Nations of Planet Bob and form some sort of World Court, so everyone can be judged based on their actions?

In conclusion, this is clear to us: a plot was made against us, prior to the state of this conflict, as had been explicitly stated before. Many alliances wanted to roll the New Pacific Order. They're going to use any reason they can, regardless of its legitimacy, regardless of the fact that they agreed with it before, regardless of the fact that they joined us in the very wars they now decry, to accomplish their goal. Karma's actions towards us from the beginning were clear that this was a war they wanted, a war they sought: from the initial peace negotiations, to their willingness to separate TORN, who were so cowardly as to take the white peace, from the second peace negotiations where we given a "minute" to agree to terms we had agreed to but had a question about, to the bandwagoning of dozens of alliances whom we had not wronged in this conflict, and to the cowardice of those alliances who conveniently stepped away.

This is not a defensive war. This is not a war of justice, or of revenge, but a war of conquest.

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Your attempt to play the victim trips over the usual issue that you declared the war.

And major laughs about linking to ConspiracyHal as 'proof' that there has been a plot against you for months.

I am sure that some people are happy you charged into a position where your grip on the world can be removed, but it is your own fault for starting an aggressive war (against Superfriends and C&G due to OV's ties to those MADP blocs). If you had taken the initial talks with OV seriously then we wouldn't be here now.

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People keep talking about how good NPO propaganda used to be, and how you've slid in international standing because you stopped pumping the stuff out, but I don't believe it. You guys have been terrible at it for as long as I've been watching. You had enough muscle that when you threatened people for commenting on it you had quite a bit of success in manufacturing a veneer of positive reception, but you were never really 'winning hearts and minds.'

Now that you're down it's really kind of sad.

You can't spin your aggression into you being attacked. If you wanted to play the victim card seriously you should be trying to defend the CB that started the war. Since you've never bothered to pretend that there was any validity to it, or have expected people to accept it without offering any support for it, this just makes you look like a petulant child crying after he's stomped on his own toy. At this point it's too late anyway, I know. If your CB were valid you should have tried to make it clear at the outset, but substituting this drivel late in the game just looks pathetic.

You've been proud to be precedent setters the whole time you've been here. Now that your precedents are being applied to you on an immensely lighter scale you cry foul. Did you really expect to bend ears with that?

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Ah, my dearest Cortath. I was reading about how in the Six Day War Israel made sure they would not be caught performing a preemptive strike - even when they knew their enemies were mobilizing. When you are surrounded by enemies, it is imperative you are not singled out as aggressors. And because you launched the first strike, you are seen as the conquerors.

Why were you so eager to support a strategically insignificant ally like TORN when it meant that you would have to fire first? You were the masters. Without you TORN is nothing. You do not need allies that will goad you into a war you will lose. Putting the focus back on TORN highlights how you had lost grip on the world. In a very Francoist sense, it was time for a new synthesis.

I believe you should have made more of a point in condemning former allies that participated in the "atrocities" you are being blamed for. Some members of the Karma coalition, whether they brand themselves as members or not, have been willing participants in the wars of old. I believe a case could be made here, breeding distrust between the committed moralists and the opportunists who enjoyed and profited from the Continuum's protection only to abandon it at the last minute.

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See, this is why Treaty Webs stink to high heaven. They end up with wars like this, where everyone is fighting everyone else, because they all have treaties that require them to fight.

It was brought to my attention through private means that the rest of my original comment was inflammatory. As that was not my intention, I have opted to edit it and remove the offending portions.

There's enough fighting going on without me bringing more to the table, right? :)

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Never thought I'd see the day when a NPO propaganda maker condemed going to war for conquest.

Even if I never agreed with the francoist ideals NPO stood for it's fairly amusing to see them throw them as far away as they can when the tides turn.

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Your attempt to play the victim trips over the usual issue that you declared the war.

And major laughs about linking to ConspiracyHal as 'proof' that there has been a plot against you for months.

I am sure that some people are happy you charged into a position where your grip on the world can be removed, but it is your own fault for starting an aggressive war (against Superfriends and C&G due to OV's ties to those MADP blocs). If you had taken the initial talks with OV seriously then we wouldn't be here now.

I'm for the most part just gonna second this.

Some undoubtedly had the desire to roll you and fight because of it, but most didn't want war and were responding to YOUR aggression. They knew that you knew the implications of that aggression: an attempt to take down many on the side of the web that had grown independent of you.

That is the primary reason for why this war has become as big as it is and why so many joined Karma. Does morality into it? Many of the alliances had separated from you in response to your actions or after they had participated in them and found them distasteful. There's no explicit moral cause. However the alliances on our side tend to be those that have held and put into execution the values that have been expressed. That is why the issue of morality has come up and some have claimed the mantle of moral superiority. So it does represent our side but indirectly, not explicitly. That doesn't mean we won't bring in a better world because the balance of power is in greater part held by those alliances, just that there's no grand conspiracy to do so.

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You're crying foul that this was a war of revenge when you yourselves started GW3 just to get revenge for the first Great "Patriotic" War? Not to mention all the other wars?

The effort in this piece was good, substance was lacking.

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