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The True Face of the Karma Coalition


Eretz Yisrael

2,279 views

Karmaic "Justice"

The loose coalition of alliances dedicated to hating and bringing down the New Pacific Order known collectively as "Karma" is the fourth such incarnation of an organization. In a world where politics and everything accompanying politics is the main course for many people here, it should be obvious by now that we are all aware of political science and history's adages, cliches, terms, and phrases.

You say you want change from our tyrannical ways, you say you want to liberate the Red Sphere from our tyrannical oppression, and you say you want to stop us from unjustly posing our will and greed on alliances we have rightly or wrongly obliterated. You say what goes around comes around, and we are getting our just desserts, right?

The fact is, as presented by Gen. Lee, leader of Ragnarok, that you are nothing more than the same group of NPO hating alliances that have formed in the past three years. Groups that hide behind a moral high ground, posing as liberators and the White Knight in Shining Armour to the Cyberverse. You say you want things to change, to break the vicious cycle we've been perpetrating since the War of Retribution (Spring 2007). Then what do you call this?

Gen_Lee: i got the job of messenger

[9:29pm] Gen_Lee: the Karma front on NPO has some instructions regarding peace moded nations you can take em or leave em:

[9:30pm] Gen_Lee: -NPO has five days to move all their nations out peace mode with zero penalty.

[9:30pm] Moo-Spock: we will never move our banks

[9:30pm] Moo-Spock: never have

[9:30pm] Gen_Lee: -6th Day and on:.For every NPO nation above 5k NS in peace mode, 3 mil and 100 tech in reparations will be added to any peace terms, per day. The duration of all peace terms will also be increased by 2 days for any day any NPO nation above 5k is in peace after the 5th day.

[9:31pm] Gen_Lee: ok

[9:32pm] Gen_Lee: thought i should let you know

[9:32pm] Gen_Lee: talk to ya later

[9:33pm] Moo-Spock: the other nations have rotated out of PM on a regular basis, just like every other alliance

[9:33pm] Moo-Spock: I will post this for our BR to discuss

[9:34pm] Gen_Lee: alright

[9:36pm] Gen_Lee: oh for record sake, clock starts now 5/21 11:38 server time

"When you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back at you." - Friedrich Nietzsche.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana

I have news for you, Karma. Karma does not represent any sort of "just punishment" you seem to think it is. Karma is merely cause and effect. Karma is not about punishment. In Spirit there is no absolute right or wrong. It is about experience and fulfillment of purpose. The idea that we are punished for sins is a man-made form of social control. A highly advanced soul may choose to incarnate into a crippled body, or as an insect, if that is beneficial to their progress.[1] Anyone knows what cause and effect is. Do one thing, another will happen as a result of it. I can accept that your view is that all the things we have done up to this point has resulted in this. No biggie. But don't even presume to justify your actions as being justice when you are guilty as the same things you accuse us of.

Drop the pretense of doing this out of change, or wanting to liberate the Red Sphere from our maniacal oppression, or justice for all the "sins" we've committed, and just come out and say it - this is vengeance, nothing more, pure and simple.

If we are to go down, we will not go down without a fight. The Order has participated in over twenty major wars in the last three and a half years. Some of us have more experience at managing wars than anyone else in this game. We have been through Hell and back once before, and we will do it again, stronger than we have before. It is in that spirit that the member-states of the New Pacific Order wholeheartedly reject your "instructions to receive terms."

I'll take ZI over obeying these demands, thanks. :war: - Noob5

[19:29:17] <+Trilobyte_Man> My response: They can shove it up their *****.

**** that ****. - Cager

Tell the !@#$%^&* that you'll see them in another 5 weeks, once we've run them to the dust. - Necromancer V4L

To put it nice and blunt. They can shove their instructions up their !@#$@#$ *****. - Ursarkar E. Creed

I'm going to with a "No" as well. - Squintus

A derisive snort, and a certain well known middle finger gesture is my sole response to that. - Waterana

They must be pretty desperate to offer such pathetic terms. Hell no. They can shove those terms where the sun don't shine. - Iceknave

You can tell how much they fear us. They know that whatever happens we will rebuild because of our banks. I think its funny that this the best they can come up with to try to destroy us. o/ Moo! - Navblue

Wtf is this? After reading it over and over... no. - Romanov IV

http://graptor.net/images/fingernuke.jpg - Loucifer

**** them. - President President

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! - ChileRelleno

An interesting attempt. However, they are either morons, or this is a joke. If its a joke then I'm overestimating their intelligence.... ... - Dr. James Henrey

Please courteously inform them that all NPO nations will gladly leave Peacemode immediately only to SHOVE THOSE BLOODY TERMS UP THEIR GODDAMN *****! - Thomas Richmond

Instructions? Let's send them back a handbook with instructions on how to **** off. - Silent

Ummm, no? - Pfauter

They must be !@#$@#$ mad/desperate/a bit of both to send that...I think I'd rather keep on killing them tbh. o/ - Dagnarus

I was thinking the same, except I was leaning toward," Shove them were the sun don't shine". - Maverick_1

Those instructions are full of FAIL. - Dominius

i just say lol - Lord Tyrion

You know I think we have a general consensus emerging already. :P - Imperial Emperor

Tell em bloopbleep38 said **** that ****. - bloopbleep38

so at the moment there are 234 in peace, 96 below 5k. So 138 are above 5k which means 414million and 6900tech per day. I find it interesting that they then put it on themselves to determine when the conflict is over. I think this is completely pointless unless they set a final date.

Otherwise it is a) We are at war with you indefinately and thus you have a "debt" of infinite or B] We destroy you hopes of rebuild. And Finally, C] They can blow it, shove it, stick it (whatever) up their ***. - Mr.AdmiralX

http://boozedout.com/wp-content/upload/1ch...ddle-finger.jpg, http://randazza.files.wordpress.com/2009/0...ddle-finger.jpg, http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/w/...finger_flip.jpg, http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/baby_middle_finger.jpg - Tony Gunz

So they want our nations in peace mode to get ZIed? Sounds very reasonable... - Choker

I like Lou's comment. Moo...from my POV you can close already this thread & archive it in the Section "the most Hilarious requests ever received" - Magus Rules

Guys, I think Karma may have realized that at the rate our NS is (barely) dropping, it'll take until August for us to lose a sanction. - Letum

No. - Soly

I'm confused. 5,000 NS is pretty low, I'm well over that and I only have 1000 infrastructure left, especially to generate 3 million a day? What makes them think that they will get a single brass razoo from us to begin with? Why would any sane individual expose their banks to enemy attack, or expect anyone else to either? What exactly would we get in return for committing such stupidity? But having said that, based on the current exchange rate of the AUD I believe I should start sending the money right now, I just need their full bank account details, date of birth, mothers maiden name (assuming they actually know who their mother is and she has a maiden name), and a photocopy of their drivers license, credit card and signature (if applicable). What can I say, I like to know who my money is going to. - ViceOverlord

Oh, that dog just ain't gonna hunt. - tombed

I think we owe them for all the mean stuff we've done to them. So I filled this warehouse and many others with all the stuff they're going to get. http://www.mawsoft.com/images/GDC-2007/lar...7%20(Large).jpg - Ellis

This is no surprise. Also, we have surrender terms? - republic of granat

I think by demanding for everyone to come out of peace mode they have inadvertently said that they don't really want a long war because we won't go down easy. This means the longer we drag it on, the more likely they are to fold. - gmop

Instruct them to get some lubricants, because we are going to personally shove those terms up their collective asses. - Lord of the Port

They certainly overestimate their cohesion, and underestimate our resolve. They keep trying to use the coaLUEtion as their history lesson, but it seems that they still haven't learned to open negotiations from a position of strength. Even with so many thousands of nations on side they struggle to find a competent strategist. Guess that's something else to blame the NPO for, since we took all the good ones. - Vladimir

No No No! The only reason they are even starting to offer terms is they realize we are not going to fold (like they would if the situation was reversed). As time goes on, the tides are turning. They are not as strong as they thought they were. - jgolla

... A.N.D T.H.E H.O.R.S.E Y.O.U R.O.D.E I.N O.N.! - Walt Schmidt

Obviously they fear the mighty rebuilding power of our Bank. In short, LOL $%&@ off Karma****. - Speer

I say yes.. ..to replying with the responses already proffered in this thread. - kernzi

i have to agree like they have the balls to commit an eternal war! longer we drag it out worse they look and lighter terms we get if any! - kenny

They cannot commit or plan for Eternal War as this would be the exact opposite of one of their supposed principle's for this war. But anything is possible I guess as hypocrisy is certainly not foreign to Planet Bob. As far as the terms, not only "No" but HELL !@#$@#$ NO!!!! - Lord Valleo

http://photos.commongate.com/11/38202_9kdgdhucff_m.jpg, http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/000/17...Screw%20You.jpg, These terms are harshest terms in CN History. I vote we tell this guy F Off and try to beat them at their own game. - ZetaDefender

Nah. - Applesauce59

The stupid terms are laughable. It's hypocricy of the greatest "Order" haha. Our banks should remain in peacemode. :) - Sarai

umm..no. Karma is getting scared I guess, but to be honest I wouldn't be scared if I was on Karma's side, simply for the fact that I would have little understanding of how well NPO is organized and what has happen in the past, younger nations of planet BOB that is, older one should know better.. - Raiden706

FTS = $%&@ that !@#$. - Lord to the Gizzle.

Well, if anyone had any doubts as to what Karma's intent has been all along I sincerely hope this latest farce puts them to rest. We'll see you in hell, Karma. - Dinfandel

They have a better chance of ripping the Nutella jar out of DarkMistress' chubby fat-fingered hands. - Bilrow

I'd tell them to stop !@#$% footing around, sit down as a coalition and decide what they really want from this war and give us real peace terms to reject; Not these singular 'instructions' to be tacked onto anything else they may demand in the future to exploit us. - Typo

no way, no one backs npo into the corner like that. - Crimekiller

I personally wanna see how high we can make that counter go up before THEY ask for terms. - Red

Tell them to go and $%&@ themselves, cheeky !@#$%^&*. - Bandit

I actually laughed out loud at this, it is pretty funny. Also $%&@ them - Millionario

I advise that we refuse this offer and press for better terms. - Prime minister johns

FOOMFCLMFAO!!!!!!!!! Ummm... No. - Grimmfang

I read that as, "Our nations are !@#$%*ing and running out of cash, we need money." $%&@ no. - Charles de Lafayette

Thank you Emperor for sharing. Many lulz had. - Branimir

No. - HooahSoldier

I will never surrender to those !@#$%^&*.. I don't care how hurt my nation gets, this "peace terms" are !@#$%^&* and we all know it. I am a Pacifican in heart, and Pacifica is not the surrendering type of alliance. We fight. We prevail! - MariMassa

lol tell them to go $%&@ themselves thanks. - Makoz

Ha, they want cash and tech for us preserving our future? They can have my nukes instead. - Manwell

I'll let this lady say it:

Tell them to stick those lousy terms, we'd rather have eternal war thanks. - Litha

No. Pacifica never surrenders. - Raithix

But Moo, we're just getting warmed up. I'll send cruise missles and aircraft as my response tonight. Engraved on each attack, will be a picture of my penis, in KARMA's cereal. $%&@ THEM! - President Gnarkill

@Branimir: this. - JonVision

http://www.engineeredpartsinc.com/images/nuts_lock_lg.jpg, https://ssl9.chi.us.securedata.net/theheadn...ixed%20nuts.jpg. - Godking I

I think I speak for all of us when I say: Suck my !@#$@#$ $@. - Azrael

I would rather sit at E-zi than have our peace mode nations come out. - Silentkiller

Dear Karma, Get bent. Love and kisses, DarkMistress.

!@#$%*^, the whole lot of them. no. - amnesiac

Honestly, we are gonna be forced to move the upper tier nations out of PM anyways. Why don't we target this alliance with those said nations until he can rethink his demands. - jimbacher

Actually, the reperation penatly is IN ADDITION to the billions they are going to ask for after they nuke the banks, so exposing the banks means that they can still ask for infinity-billion dollars. - Sir Paul

<%Blueline976[NPO]> Well, all I have to say about those pre-terms is...Yeah, $%&@ that !@#$.

Bollocks. - Kristospherein

Ahhhhahahahahahaahahahaha. That's some funny !@#$ right there. Is that how much they want to pay us for staying in peace mode and not beating their nations down? LOL - JeremyB

I can see why they are insiting on this as I believe we offered as similar condition to GATO (except we went whole hog with EZI rather than increased reps). What they don't seem to understand is that the NPO is not GATO and is willing to keep fighting till we get resonable terms even if we have to bring them eternal war, something which I believe the majority of Karma alliances would not be willing to face. So I say $%&@ these terms and in a few weeks we will see something better as more and more of thier members BWHAAAA over thier lost pixels :P - UncleB

I came out of hibernation... er... my study abroad and went to the internet cafe to check up on you guys. This made my day. Hilarious. I think "Hell no" is the right answer. - svartingr

NO. - Tojamn

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x215/BoredBrawd/Blue1.png, My response. - kevin32891

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6100/yourcouch.jpg - Mary the Fantabulous

$%&@ no - Polish Sausage

$%&@ them. - Kriegsdrachen

@ThomasRichmond: This ^ ps. $%&@ THEM. Hail The Emperor! Hail my comrades! NPO Rules!!! - Dragon's claw

Emperor, They deserve to eat a few nukes for these disgraceful opening terms. Tell them to come back when they grow some balls. Sincerly, Big Red. Hail! Looks like babies are back on the menu boys! - The Big Red 1

What's the hurry? - Maharaj

No. $%&@'em. I rather be hammered to deletion. Reroll and do it all over again. - askanitherotund

We may have created a medical emergency here. First, Karma must have had their heads up their asses to attack NPO. In addition, we've shoved their war declaration up their asses, their surrender requests and now these instructions up their asses. Comrades, just how much more can they take up their asses?!? Let's continue the fight up put them out of our their misery. - TinyVillages

@Ellis: Why are we giving them handtrucks and some chairs? This seems unreasonable. - Blueon462

Oh no they didn't! I like to think I know a little something about mind$%&@ing. This was simply an attempt to gauge the resolve of our alliance. Of course in any negotiation you start high then work to find a middle ground. I think that they were looking for us to say no to these terms but perhaps continue to negotiate. By continuing to negotiate, we're telling them we are looking to end this war. I say $%&@ that. In turn, the karma "powers that be" will go back to their "war rooms" and start thinking about an exit strategy that is in their best interest. The simple fact that we have held them this long despite our banks and some of our larger nations in peace mode scares the living !@#$ out of them. They know if this drags on they will lose. Let us not forget that these people want us wiped off the map. For that I say no mercy. - jordanhazy

!@#$@#$ pathetic. If it comes to eternal war, well... they will be getting a nuke a day... forrrreeeeeevvvverrrrrrrr - Straylight

$%&@ them. Hell no. :war: I like the attempted hypocrisy though. - f15pilotX

This game just got interesting. It's go time! "I'll rest when I die" - Daimos

Never. - Lord of Darkness

@Cager: This. - Princecaspian

8 pages of "$%&@ no." Tell them the NPO has spoken as one and they can go back to cry in their bunkers while they watch their pixels burn! - Brennan

I fail to see how sending our nations out of peace mode will bring planet bob into peace mode... Also, 'instructions' ? Tell them to drop the passive-agressive BS and talk about real peace like real men.

This Attrition/ Stalemate thing we have going on is not the time/ place to demand huge reps, eternal ZIs, bans etc, etc. - CrazyEddie

Tell them, "Those are the terms we are offering you!" We got your back Moo o/ - Klonopin

Can Karma even keep up sustained hostilities for another five weeks? No Surrender, $%&@ them in their necks. :war: - Neko_antoniou

lol.. dumb***** - Conrad

@President Gnarkill: ^^^^ this EPIC - Oppe

Unacceptable. Hold the line, comrades! - Anhur

$%&@ 'em. - Lord of Destruction

Till the last drop of infra blood. BTW HELL NO to those terms. Also the fear and desperation could be sense in those terms. - Zeon Gryhawk

$%&@ them and their instructions. - Gandroff

:ph34r: I see we are all of one mind. No. Just no. - TrotskysRevenge

@TrotskysRevenge: So it is said. So it shall be written! - Mudbug

Been gone for a few days and almost missed this thread... Is it to late to add my "$%&@ no" to the bunch(I know Moo has spoken and all) - Frodark

Time to give KARMA our instructions. Something I know they can do....stepping on a landmine.....jumping off a bridge...etc. - Roman

Oh $%&@ no. I'd rather sit at ZI. In the meantime, I sure am having fun doing more damage to them than they're doing to me :awesome: - Jesse End

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Ha ha. Firstly, calling it EZI is either a gross misrepresentation or gross misunderstanding of the concept (anyone is welcome to take individual terms at any time :) ). Secondly, it's you who's keeping those members down by not coming to terms. Your opposition is willing to give you peace in a reasonable time frame under reasonable terms. You never have and never will be able to make a credible comparison between what you have done and what you have brought upon yourselves.

Are they? I have yet to see any terms. All I have seen is completely ludicrous 'pre-terms' that no one in their right mind would accept, along with much talk of destroying the Order so that they can never rise again and, in this very blog entry, talk of perpetual war and ZI. Doesn't fill me with confidence in your good faith. Offer terms and then you can blame us for forcing you (the poor dears) to continue this war. Otherwise you are taking (or at least trying to take) the position that the alliance must choose between EZI and disbandment.

This is what you are threatening by saying that there will never be peace so long as we have nations in peace mode. But no, for sheer absurdity, the demand being made takes the biscuit.

You're speaking nonsense. I expect better of you, honestly. You, personally, can surrender right now. You can begin rebuilding your nation tomorrow, with all your wonders and economic improvements untouched and without hiding under another name. Trying to equate that to EZI is pathetically transparent sophistry.

We're not telling you we want you to disband. You set a harsher precedent than what you're facing; you've got an unbelievable amount of gall to come cry about it.

And if this had anything to do with OV the war would have been over before it began -- in the initial peace talks. You wanted war because you wanted to destroy the Order. OV is only ever mentioned when you're called on this, otherwise they're a non-factor even in your own propaganda.

I think everyone understood that your attack on OV was an attempt to destroy those who might coalesce against you either piecemeal or before you lost any more treaties to your bumbling. Had you negotiated in good faith rather than using the time to jump to peace mode you very well may be at peace now.

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Now the world will try to justify that NPO's actions on FAN were moral.

Is that saying that you agree that what NPO (and IRON) did to FAN is wrong? :huh:

In any case, no, the "world" is not going to do that; there's no need: there are essentially no parallels that can rationally be drawn between what was done to FAN and the current world situation.

The propaganda you guys are coming out with is embarrassingly bad. In most cases I can't tell if the root problem is desperation, illiteracy, or an insulting naiveté about the intelligence of your target audience.

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Now the world will try to justify that NPO's actions on FAN were moral.

I addressed it in the NPO surrender thread. Once again, you should perhaps read up on the situations and conditions each of the respective alliances were in. One is fully armed while the other was disarmed and blitzed out of no where with a BS CB after a previous war. I'll give you a hint: NPO wasn't disarmed when the war started.

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Interestingly enough I have found out that Sparta and other Karma alliances did not even know about these alleged Karma terms. Could it be that Ragnarok is being a bit presumptuous and stepping over the line? The reaction of one Sparta government member was pure shock and anger.....at Gen Lee.

As the Karma Turns.

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Your opposition is willing to give you peace in a reasonable time frame under reasonable terms.

The current peace talk minimum is starting at 26K of technology PER DAY OF WAR.

That's what NPO has to offer in order to GET peace talks.

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Uh, no. Any member of the NPO can stop being attacked at any time by taking advantage of the individual surrender terms, so it's not even PZI. Either you are an idiot (which I don't believe) or intentionally misusing the term EZI.

Morality does not mean letting a known threat get away with an aggressive action when you are in a position to teach it a lesson. There is nothing immoral about fighting, and winning, a defensive war, and ensuring that your enemy is beaten before ending it.

You have lost over half your strength, even if the alliances fighting you had a horrible lapse of judgement and gave you no strings attached peace right now, you have clearly lost.

So, we have "clearly lost" yet need to be kept at an indefinite war until we are "beaten", and this is not somehow keeping the entire alliance at ZI for as long as we are a threat?

Circular logic ftw.

And yes, EZI and PZI as applied here lead up to the same result. You are attacking anyone with the AA "New Pacific Order", even if they reroll five thousand times. You do this because anyone with that AA is a threat to you.

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Your opposition is willing to give you peace in a reasonable time frame under reasonable terms.

The current peace talk minimum is starting at 26K of technology PER DAY OF WAR.

That's what NPO has to offer in order to GET peace talks.

No it isn't; that doesn't do anything towards getting them terms, and they can avoid it entirely if they want. That's the penalty for not fighting the war they started.

Uh, no. Any member of the NPO can stop being attacked at any time by taking advantage of the individual surrender terms, so it's not even PZI. Either you are an idiot (which I don't believe) or intentionally misusing the term EZI.

Morality does not mean letting a known threat get away with an aggressive action when you are in a position to teach it a lesson. There is nothing immoral about fighting, and winning, a defensive war, and ensuring that your enemy is beaten before ending it.

So, we have "clearly lost" yet need to be kept at an indefinite war until we are "beaten", and this is not somehow keeping the entire alliance at ZI for as long as we are a threat?

Circular logic ftw.

And yes, EZI and PZI as applied here lead up to the same result. You are attacking anyone with the AA "New Pacific Order", even if they reroll five thousand times. You do this because anyone with that AA is a threat to you.

Being at war with an alliance is not anything like applying EZI, no matter how many times you say it. It doesn't make a lick of sense.

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Your opposition is willing to give you peace in a reasonable time frame under reasonable terms.

The current peace talk minimum is starting at 26K of technology PER DAY OF WAR.

That's what NPO has to offer in order to GET peace talks.

No it isn't; that doesn't do anything towards getting them terms, and they can avoid it entirely if they want. That's the penalty for not fighting the war they started.

Uh, no. Any member of the NPO can stop being attacked at any time by taking advantage of the individual surrender terms, so it's not even PZI. Either you are an idiot (which I don't believe) or intentionally misusing the term EZI.

Morality does not mean letting a known threat get away with an aggressive action when you are in a position to teach it a lesson. There is nothing immoral about fighting, and winning, a defensive war, and ensuring that your enemy is beaten before ending it.

So, we have "clearly lost" yet need to be kept at an indefinite war until we are "beaten", and this is not somehow keeping the entire alliance at ZI for as long as we are a threat?

Circular logic ftw.

And yes, EZI and PZI as applied here lead up to the same result. You are attacking anyone with the AA "New Pacific Order", even if they reroll five thousand times. You do this because anyone with that AA is a threat to you.

Being at war with an alliance is not anything like applying EZI, no matter how many times you say it. It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Okay, let's just call it an "indefinite war to keep the person you consider a threat down for an undetermined amount of time until you no longer consider him to be a threat"

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How about war until one party surrenders under mutually agreed terms (like any other war)?

This doesn't even approach the level of what the NPO did to FAN or GATO. Claiming that you're being "EZI'ed" is a pathetic attempt to latch on to an outrage buzzword. It isn't working.

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How about war until one party surrenders under mutually agreed terms (like any other war)?
This doesn't even approach the level of what the NPO did to FAN or GATO.

Funny how both of those wars went on until "one party surrendered under mutually agreed terms".

See, I can do it too.

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So by combining your earlier statement with this one... You're claiming that the NPO EZIed GATO? It doesn't make any sense.

How is that funny? My statement was "this doesn't even approach the level of what the NPO did to FAN or GATO." I didn't claim that the mechanism to end the war was different (although in FAN's case it arguably was).

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So by combining your earlier statement with this one... You're claiming that the NPO EZIed GATO? It doesn't make any sense.

How is that funny? My statement was "this doesn't even approach the level of what the NPO did to FAN or GATO." I didn't claim that the mechanism to end the war was different (although in FAN's case it arguably was).

I'm pointing out how absurd the statement that it is merely a war that goes on until one guy gives up. Yeah, every single war is like that, because every single thing in the world ends. I don't seriously think that people will still be here in 5 years fighting this, of course there will be an "end" in some form.

But an indefinite war does not mean one that never ends, it means one where the people waging it have not decided on it ending within the near future (which in CN metrics, is measured in months). Of course it will "end" at some point, but until that point, the plan from Karma is to keep the NPO down indefinitely, so pointing out that the war will only last "until both guys agree on peace" is completely unrelated to the point.

Likewise, I brought up something completely unrelated to the point, hence why "I can do it too".

Do you get it now?

Btw, your first statement there is an Association fallacy.

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So by combining your earlier statement with this one... You're claiming that the NPO EZIed GATO? It doesn't make any sense.

How is that funny? My statement was "this doesn't even approach the level of what the NPO did to FAN or GATO." I didn't claim that the mechanism to end the war was different (although in FAN's case it arguably was).

I'm pointing out how absurd the statement that it is merely a war that goes on until one guy gives up. Yeah, every single war is like that, because every single thing in the world ends. I don't seriously think that people will still be here in 5 years fighting this, of course there will be an "end" in some form.

But an indefinite war does not mean one that never ends, it means one where the people waging it have not decided on it ending within the near future (which in CN metrics, is measured in months). Of course it will "end" at some point, but until that point, the plan from Karma is to keep the NPO down indefinitely, so pointing out that the war will only last "until both guys agree on peace" is completely unrelated to the point.

Likewise, I brought up something completely unrelated to the point, hence why "I can do it too".

Do you get it now?

Btw, your first statement there is an Association fallacy.

How was that an absurd statement? You seemed to be confused about what a war was, so I pointed out what should be obvious. The absurd statement was when you tried to assert that Karma was applying EZI.

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How was that an absurd statement? You seemed to be confused about what a war was, so I pointed out what should be obvious. The absurd statement was when you tried to assert that Karma was applying EZI.

Yes. You described what a war is. Every war, ever, is "what a war is". Including the wars you criticized us for. I am well aware this is a war. I am not arguing it is not a war. It being a war is not mutually exclusive with it being a way to keep us down indefinitely. Keeping us down indefinitely is what PZI boils down to. Since anybody rerolling but still being under our AA is also targeted, PZI has the same effect as an EZI when applied to the scale of an alliance. We are discussing things on the scale of an alliance.

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ZI, PZI, EZI, are all sentences that are applied and end when the nation reaches ZI, the player deletes their nation, or never, respectively. That is completely different from the case here, where any player may surrender any time they like. Any player who joins the NPO will find themselves in a state of war, regardless of any past activity. There is no specific infrastructure target (such as 0) anywhere.

Trying to call war EZI was and is stupid. The only reason to try to connect the two unrelated ideas is for cheap PR points, but it's a flop because it's too much of a reach.

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ZI, PZI, EZI, are all sentences that are applied and end when the nation reaches ZI, the player deletes their nation, or never, respectively. That is completely different from the case here, where any player may surrender any time they like. Any player who joins the NPO will find themselves in a state of war, regardless of any past activity. There is no specific infrastructure target (such as 0) anywhere.

Trying to call war EZI was and is stupid. The only reason to try to connect the two unrelated ideas is for cheap PR points, but it's a flop because it's too much of a reach.

The real point behind PZI and EZI is to keep a nation forever down. The "ZI" part is nothing but a means to that end and a marker of the continued war; a nation (or an alliance) can be kept under those conditions without ever actually reaching zero infra (though it is hard). Pointing out that "well they aren't specifically aiming to reduce people to zero infra, they're just generally reducing infra as part of war" is avoiding the point. The point is that the aim of both this practice and this war is "keep the guy forever down".

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ZI, PZI, EZI, are all sentences that are applied and end when the nation reaches ZI, the player deletes their nation, or never, respectively. That is completely different from the case here, where any player may surrender any time they like. Any player who joins the NPO will find themselves in a state of war, regardless of any past activity. There is no specific infrastructure target (such as 0) anywhere.

Trying to call war EZI was and is stupid. The only reason to try to connect the two unrelated ideas is for cheap PR points, but it's a flop because it's too much of a reach.

The real point behind PZI and EZI is to keep a nation forever down. The "ZI" part is nothing but a means to that end and a marker of the continued war; a nation (or an alliance) can be kept under those conditions without ever actually reaching zero infra (though it is hard). Pointing out that "well they aren't specifically aiming to reduce people to zero infra, they're just generally reducing infra as part of war" is avoiding the point. The point is that the aim of both this practice and this war is "keep the guy forever down".

Except it's not forever. Any nation who is tired of being at war can leave at any time they want to. Karma has provided individual surrender terms.

Similarly, Karma would more than likely be happy to provide terms, the problem is that you want to claim the terms are not fair, and refuse to agree with them. You cannot blame karma for your own stuborness.

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There's nothing forever about it. Nobody (on the Karma side, anyway) wants eternal war.

Nobody wants to see you back on top of the world again either, but you will have at least a chance at that, and measures taken to impede it aren't keeping you down forever in any sense comparable to E/PZI.

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Hail Gen Lee and his glorious vision!

Not even the vaunted hippy shield will save the cowards now.

The difference between us and them is that proportionally, we have far more nations fighting than they ever did.

Anarchy and peace mode stats for GATO-1V war

According to that thread, on April 29th GATO had 462 nations in war mode and 32 in peace mode, meaning a whopping 6.5% of 494 nations were in peace mode. You have over 30% in peace mode, so how exactly do you have proportionally more nations fighting?

On May 30th, the day Moo told GATO to get out of peace mode, GATO had 457 nations in war mode, so they never got anywhere near your 30%

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lol Cry more, really.

You reap what you sow. If you didn't want to be consumed by your own arrogance, you should have foreseen this happening so long ago. You deserve no sympathy.

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There's nothing forever about it. Nobody (on the Karma side, anyway) wants eternal war.

Nobody wants to see you back on top of the world again either, but you will have at least a chance at that, and measures taken to impede it aren't keeping you down forever in any sense comparable to E/PZI.

I already addressed the "forever" part a few replies back. Yes, nothing is ever "forever". But this war is indefinite.

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