Finnish Commie Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1297963246' post='2636732'] [i]Ohhhhhh[/i] that makes it totally different! The fact that International pissed and moaned about SOS's posting habits coupled with you coming out here in front of the world and saying Muted Faith can throw his hissy fit all over SOS if he wants because that's his right is wicked hilarious. Were you laughing while you wrote that? I was when I read it. That took balls, I will give you that. [/quote] Ehm. Well I see there is no point in trying to clarify the situation for you anymore, you have clearly made up your mind . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Terror Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1297962991' post='2636730'] I think all bets are off once a person's ally starts asking that person's other allies to cancel their treaties with them. And the idea that MoFAs can show their asses in private is idiotic, diplomacy is not conducted in public, a MoFA's work is done in private. [/quote] I don't know how many times we have said this but that is utter !@#$%^&*. Informing your allies that you plan on cancelling a treaty is not the same as asking them to cancel there treaties. As for the other !@#$ why the hell can't MF say how he feels, being MoFA doesn't mean you have to play nice with all the other children now does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael von Prussia Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Baron Terror' timestamp='1297963826' post='2636737'] As for the other !@#$ why the hell can't MF say how he feels, being MoFA doesn't mean you have to play nice with all the other children now does it? [/quote] Actually, I think that's the job of any diplomat, especially when you have a treaty with the children you're playing with saying you'll play nice with each other. In fact, the part of the treaty you just set on fire after walking all over for a few weeks that said that you should play nice was deemed so important it was the very first article, and it applies to [i]all[/i] members of both alliances. The fact he's deputy MoFA just makes him appear even more incompetent than he was already acting, which is quite a feat if I do say so myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote]In public that would be absolutely correct, after all as you say our MoFA represents our alliance. However that was not a public thread, it was a private embassy, and as such MF can say what he has on his mind without gagging himself. It is a shame that someone has breached this trust, even though there really isn't anything all to revealing in the thread, looks like nothing is sacred any more.[/quote] [quote name='Baron Terror' timestamp='1297963826' post='2636737'] I don't know how many times we have said this but that is utter !@#$%^&*. Informing your allies that you plan on cancelling a treaty is not the same as asking them to cancel there treaties. As for the other !@#$ why the hell can't MF say how he feels, being MoFA doesn't mean you have to play nice with all the other children now does it? [/quote] An embassy is an environment where government officials speak within their official capacity. Being the MoFA means that he represents the view of the alliance and its government. Also I don't know how you operate your foreign policy, but I was under the impression that the majority of diplomatic dealings are done in private. Just because this was not in public view, does not make it right. The MoFA must understand that he has a certain obligation, and in this instance he neglected his duties. [quote]MutedFaith is probably the most anti-NPO member of INT government.[/quote] Probably a hard concept to grasp in this community, but the MoFA role requires a degree of respect, and an open mind also helps. [quote]Edit: Also MF wasn't our MoFA when he made those comments. He was deputy MoFA.[/quote] Doesn't mean he should not operate under the bureaucratic protocol. I don't know what is worse, his lack of professional attitude or the fact that he was promoted after his comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Fyfe XIV' timestamp='1297961597' post='2636714'] To be fair, the treaty with Jamahiriya was probably worse. [/quote] There are few alliances objectively worse than Invicta, but yes, Jamahiriya is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soviet Limburg Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I'll add some thoughts, as clearly some things are being misrepresented to win the Battle of the Drama Award. [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1297954572' post='2636663'] Yeah, confirmed. This treaty was not canceled because of C&G pressure on Int, it was canceled because of Int's attempts at the same with other SOS allies.[/quote] Nope, we merely contacted our allies that are also linked to SOS. This is part of rather standard procedure between allies. At no point did we exert pressure to get our allies to cancel out on SOS. I suggest you listen somewhat less to the SOS side of the story, which is quite frankly a bit overplaying the dramaqueen theme. [quote]Most assuredly, I do not. I do, however, condemn the actions of International leading up to this cancellation. [/quote] Yes, us standing by SOS for all those months is surely completely morally bankrupt. [quote]I thank you for the offer and I enjoy our conversations, but as you'll see, I pretty much have the whole story. [/quote] So someone from SOS shared a screenshot with you, congrats on having "the whole story". Of course, such behaviour in no sense reflects his lack of respect for us, oh no. [quote]International's behavior is shameful, and unfortunately their attitude and behavior toward SOS over the past month has been guided by idiotic paranoia.[/quote] More like, SOS didn't learn anything from their behaviour over the course of many months and our membership grew tired of protecting SOS against themselves. [quote]SOS instituted an OWF ban in order to try to appease The International a few days ago.[/quote] As they say: "too little, too late". Edited February 17, 2011 by Soviet Limburg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Baron Terror' timestamp='1297962813' post='2636724'] It is a shame that someone has breached this trust, even though there really isn't anything all to revealing in the thread, looks like nothing is sacred any more. [/quote] Do you have a treaty with them now? How were you betreyed? Seriously, you are saying showing us acting like asshats in private to a then ally is wrong but not the acting like an asshat, thats fine. Edited February 17, 2011 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soviet Limburg Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1297966529' post='2636758'] Do you have a treaty with them now? How were you betreyed? [/quote] Having private embassy stuff staying private is a pretty normal procedure in diplomatic relations. Or maybe you should start the Planet Bob variant of Wikileaks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Soviet Limburg' timestamp='1297966822' post='2636764'] Having private embassy stuff staying private is a pretty normal procedure in diplomatic relations. Or maybe you should start the Planet Bob variant of Wikileaks? [/quote] I will echo what I said before. An embassy is an environment where government officials speak within their official capacity. Being the MoFA means that he represents the view of the alliance and its government. Also I don't know how you operate your foreign policy, but I was under the impression that the majority of diplomatic dealings are done in private. Just because this was not in public view, does not make it right. The MoFA must understand that he has a certain obligation, and in this instance he neglected his duties. This isn't an opsec forum, it is an embassy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Soviet Limburg' timestamp='1297966822' post='2636764'] Having private embassy stuff staying private is a pretty normal procedure in diplomatic relations. Or maybe you should start the Planet Bob variant of Wikileaks? [/quote] Gov members acting like that towards an ally on their home turf is normal diplomatic procedure for your alliance, interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1297967000' post='2636767'] Gov members acting like that towards an ally on their home turf is normal diplomatic procedure for your alliance, interesting. [/quote] In Athens, its a normal procedure but we do one better and go over to their forums and the IRC channels we have with each other. ~ :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael von Prussia Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1297965615' post='2636749'] There are few alliances objectively worse than Invicta, but yes, Jamahiriya is one of them. [/quote] I have to agree with you. [url=http://i.imgur.com/snUYh.png]We're [i]much[/i] worse than Invicta.[/url] So much worse that we're under their protection. Y'know, being protected by an alliance that's worse than you are really wouldn't be very efficient. [quote name='Jgoods45' timestamp='1297968109' post='2636780'] In Athens, its a normal procedure but we do one better and go over to their forums and the IRC channels we have with each other. ~ :3 [/quote] [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98677]Yes, and we all know how you treat your allies.[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Finnish Commie' timestamp='1297963538' post='2636734'] Ehm. Well I see there is no point in trying to clarify the situation for you anymore, you have clearly made up your mind . [/quote] It is best that you do not try to defend the indefensible, you will only get your nose bloodied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1297968507' post='2636791'] I have to agree with you. [url=http://i.imgur.com/snUYh.png]We're [i]much[/i] worse than Invicta.[/url] So much worse that we're under their protection. Y'know, being protected by an alliance that's worse than you are really wouldn't be very efficient. [/quote] It's pretty close. You are both terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MutedFaith Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Oh great, the topic's about me now. The International cancelling on SOS has nothing to do with the Invicta-treaty, or my reaction on the treaty in the SOS embassy on our forums. Please stop giving Invicta credits for it. As a MoFA (Well, deputy MoFA at the time of the posts), I feel it's my obligation to discuss any problems we may have with our allies and their behaviour, without dressing it up in friendly, pink gowns and serving it with whipped cream and cherries. How can you expect someone to be a good ally, if they can't give their honest opinion on your behaviour (in this case the treaties they sign, and the way they present it to us)? I'm not going to lie to them in our embassy and congratulate them on signing a treaty with an alliance I 'dislike'. No, I'm going to be honest with them and ask them what the hell they were thinking when signing that piece of paper. And I'd expect them to be honest with me/us too whenever we do something they don't like.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='MutedFaith' timestamp='1297971864' post='2636831'] Oh great, the topic's about me now. The International cancelling on SOS has nothing to do with the Invicta-treaty, or my reaction on the treaty in the SOS embassy on our forums. Please stop giving Invicta credits for it. As a MoFA (Well, deputy MoFA at the time of the posts), I feel it's my obligation to discuss any problems we may have with our allies and their behaviour, without dressing it up in friendly, pink gowns and serving it with whipped cream and cherries. How can you expect someone to be a good ally, if they can't give their honest opinion on your behaviour (in this case the treaties they sign, and the way they present it to us)? I'm not going to lie to them in our embassy and congratulate them on signing a treaty with an alliance I 'dislike'. No, I'm going to be honest with them and ask them what the hell they were thinking when signing that piece of paper. And I'd expect them to be honest with me/us too whenever we do something they don't like.. [/quote] Your statement contradicts with the one FinnishCommie posted. After your post, I can quite clearly tell that SOS is the better off alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='MutedFaith' timestamp='1297971864' post='2636831'] Oh great, the topic's about me now. The International cancelling on SOS has nothing to do with the Invicta-treaty, or my reaction on the treaty in the SOS embassy on our forums. Please stop giving Invicta credits for it. [/quote] International voted on cancelling this treaty just prior to the Invicta treaty and just after the Invicta treaty. Prior to the Invicta and Jamahiriya treaties and award to Delta1212, the vote on the SOS-International treaty was upheld on a 12-12 vote. Right after the new treaties and award to Delta, International voted to cancel the treaty 20-4. Now, Mr. Faith, forgive me for not dressing it up with a cherry on top, but what do you take us all for? Are you a liar, or did International cancel the treaty because SOS gave Delta an award? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnish Commie Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1297972305' post='2636839'] International voted on cancelling this treaty just prior to the Invicta treaty and just after the Invicta treaty. Prior to the Invicta and Jamahiriya treaties and award to Delta1212, the vote on the SOS-International treaty was upheld on a 12-12 vote. Right after the new treaties and award to Delta, International voted to cancel the treaty 20-4. Now, Mr. Faith, forgive me for not dressing it up with a cherry on top, but what do you take us all for? Are you a liar, or did International cancel the treaty because SOS gave Delta an award? [/quote] The first vote didn't end 12-12. Please get your sources straight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Finnish Commie' timestamp='1297972742' post='2636843'] The first vote didn't end 12-12. Please get your sources straight [/quote] Thank you for confirming that the vote held a few days before the Invicta and Jamahiriya treaties and award to Delta upheld the SOS-International treaty, and that the vote held directly after those three events canceled the treaty. I love it when I have helpers. Edited February 17, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnish Commie Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1297973061' post='2636845'] Thank you for acknowledging that the vote held a few days before the Invicta and Jamahiriya treaties and award to Delta upheld the SOS-International treaty, and that the vote held directly after those three events canceled the treaty. I love it when I have helpers. [/quote] Well I know certain someone is leaking you this stuff anyways so whats the point. Good to know though that anything I ever talked in private with SOS leadership is going to be leaked to people like you. Good show and all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Finnish Commie' timestamp='1297973236' post='2636848'] Well I know certain someone is leaking you this stuff anyways so whats the point. Good to know though that anything I ever talked in private with SOS leadership is going to be leaked to people like you. Good show and all [/quote] Welcome to how SOS treats its ex-allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Finnish Commie' timestamp='1297973236' post='2636848'] Well I know certain someone is leaking you this stuff anyways so whats the point. Good to know though that anything I ever talked in private with SOS leadership is going to be leaked to people like you. Good show and all [/quote] Hey, listen, I want to believe you're not as nasty as this all makes you seem, help me out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1297973534' post='2636855'] Welcome to how SOS treats its ex-allies. [/quote] Respect is a two-way street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnish Commie Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1297973584' post='2636856'] Hey, listen, I want to believe you're not as nasty as this all makes you seem, help me out here. [/quote] Sorry INT is not in the business of leaking private conversations to make ourselves look better or to make the other party look worse. Certain SOS gov members can dig all the trash they can from the private conversations we had with them but we will not be responding in kind. Believe it or not it really is below our level. I can only repeat the point that there were multiple reasons for cancellation and neither party was without blame, as it often is when two allies grow apart. Edited February 17, 2011 by Finnish Commie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) That's a creative use of the word "multiple." I guess a treaty with Invicta and a treaty with Jamahiriya and an award to Delta are "multiple" things. Edited February 17, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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