Freedom

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Kaiser Martens' timestamp='1288233000' post='2494797']
"But Ireland refuses to make peace, and instead insists on retaining the prisoners, which is an encroachment on the non-European sphere. J Andres had done what it had to do: It got out of this continent. It is not our right to demand anything else but their departure."
[/quote]

"You are correct, it isn't Germany's right to demand anything else, but it is Ireland's right to do so. As stated earlier, J.Andres refused Irish terms to end the war and chose to prolong it - even going so far as to neglect the PoWs in Irish care, and failed to start negotiations over them. The PoWs have been well cared for, but will not be returning home until a satisfactory resolution is in place. Threats of consequences, and war will not scare the Kingdom of Ireland into submission. It will cost far more to the nations that dare to inflict harm onto the Emerald Isle than anything that could be done to the Kingdom. As Ireland has continued to say, J. Andres has not opened negotiations for the PoWs - so you warmongering nations should ask yourself, who is more to blame for this situation, Ireland or J.Andres. The answer is, of course, J. Andres."

Edited October 28, 2010 by Yawoo

[Zoot Zoot]

England urges J Andres OR the Kingdom to begin negotiations.
You stand to lose nothing by opening the doors of diplomacy, and you would earn the respect of the community by making the first move, In Englands opinion of course.

[AironthFlamewing]

My Brothers in the International Community-
The United Kingdom of Idaho and Montana wishes to extend an olive branch to all parties involved. Therefore, we are offering up the city of Boise for the use of peace talks between all parties involved, If interested please arrive in Boise on 28 September by 7 pm.

[Yawoo]

"It is up to J. Andres to begin peace talks, not the Kingdom. So far, they have failed to do so - and Ireland will not run to the table because of foreign pressure. As stated earlier, if J. Andres wants the PoWs, they will have to begin negotiations for them. Boise is far from a neutral location considering your governments remarks, so if J. Andres wants to have negotiations, they can come to Dublin."

[Michael McBride]

The Empire of Pravus Ingruo supports this action by the countries of Europe to free North American citizens of their illegal imprisonment by a totalitarian regime. The Empire offers supplies to the European countries in their fight against the Kingdom of Ireland, should it come to that, but we will not send any military unless it is requested. Germany makes an excellent point: Ireland didn't want Americans in Europe, they shouldn't be holding 400,000 of them there. Once again, we will not interfere militarily unless asked.

[Executive Minister]

[i]"It would be entirely foolhardy to so carelessly throw away 400,000 bargaining chips during a live war, with no peace agreement. We sympathize with the Irish, and wish them some of their stereotypical luck."[/i]

[Michael McBride]

OOC: If you're waiting for JED to make peace with KC, Yawoo, it won't happen any time soon. KC has informed us that he won't be posting for a while.

[Kaiser Martens]

"They are no bargaining chips, if the 400k would be returned home, in fact, if they were returned and the war against Ireland continued, we'd soon find ourselves siding with Ireland instead, but of course, this is not going to happen, not as long as the Irish are led by the current less than reasonable Government."

[Centurius]

[quote name='dotCom' timestamp='1288229089' post='2494710']
We find ourselves in agreement with Slavorussia here. Why should Ireland hand over prisoners of war while it is at war? The mere suggestion is ludicrous.
[/quote]

"The issue is here said war was started to remove the American occupation of Europe, from our records J Andres was complying with those terms and removing their forces. It was Ireland who kidnapped retreating forces and it was Ireland that fired on retreating ships. It is also Ireland which demanded terms interfering on other continents. It is this Ireland that has shown to be ruled by a corrupt regime. The war is kept active by the Irish not the J Andreans."

[Sal Paradise]

Canuckistan doesn't ascribe to the parochialism that infects much of the world. Our sense of morality does not stop at continental boundaries. In our opinion, the European war against J Andres was not against Americans in Europe but against J Andrean imperialism, which extends itself across North America and across the Atlantic. The Irish should be praised for their courage, not turned on by a cadre of their opportunistic neighbours. To call Ireland hypocritical over their attempt to save the United States from J Andre's treachery is the height of moral cowardice and every European nation affixing their signature to this declaration should be ashamed of themselves. What cowards you are, you who only apply your sense of morality to your Asian peninsula.

According to conventional logic and the rules of war, Ireland is still at war with J Andres and have every right to keep their POWs until that war is resolved.

We will note, however, that this long-established code of conduct is no longer accepted by the nations of Europe and will in the future act accordingly. Now Europe believes that having your surrender terms rejected is an automatic white peace. We expect the Europeans to follow this new practice consistently in the future, and will be watching to see if they do.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1288301727' post='2495514']
Canuckistan doesn't ascribe to the parochialism that infects much of the world. Our sense of morality does not stop at continental boundaries. In our opinion, the European war against J Andres was not against Americans in Europe but against J Andrean imperialism, which extends itself across North America and across the Atlantic. The Irish should be praised for their courage, not turned on by a cadre of their opportunistic neighbours. To call Ireland hypocritical over their attempt to save the United States from J Andre's treachery is the height of moral cowardice and every European nation affixing their signature to this declaration should be ashamed of themselves. What cowards you are, you who only apply your sense of morality to your Asian peninsula.

According to conventional logic and the rules of war, Ireland is still at war with J Andres and have every right to keep their POWs until that war is resolved.

We will note, however, that this long-established code of conduct is no longer accepted by the nations of Europe and will in the future act accordingly. Now Europe believes that having your surrender terms rejected is an automatic white peace. We expect the Europeans to follow this new practice consistently in the future, and will be watching to see if they do.
[/quote]

"The Athenian Federation considers action required with terms that are not proportional to the original cause of the war nor the conduct of the defender. Ireland has no right to interfere in America just as Americans have no right to meddle in Europe. Furthermore we do not care about your expectations in any form"

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='Kaiser Martens' timestamp='1288294004' post='2495374']
"They are no bargaining chips, if the 400k would be returned home, in fact, if they were returned and the war against Ireland continued, we'd soon find ourselves siding with Ireland instead, but of course, this is not going to happen, not as long as the Irish are led by the current less than reasonable Government."
[/quote]
[i]
"Of course you would side with the Irish if that were the case- it would be the least you could do after denying them of such a strategic and political resource during a live war. With these men, the Irish would have more leverage to force the J Andrean hand into suing for peace.

What more, if the Irish released their prisoners, only for a multiple of 400,000 American citizens to be slaughtered at their released hands? Would you invade J Andres? Your foolish idealism is nothing more than ill-advised soapboxing."[/i]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1288294495' post='2495380']
"The issue is here said war was started to remove the American occupation of Europe, from our records J Andres was complying with those terms and removing their forces. It was Ireland who kidnapped retreating forces and it was Ireland that fired on retreating ships. It is also Ireland which demanded terms interfering on other continents. It is this Ireland that has shown to be ruled by a corrupt regime. The war is kept active by the Irish not the J Andreans."
[/quote][i]

"You expect the Irish to know the difference between a full-scale pullout and a strategic withdrawal, especially during open hostilities? If J Andres had pulled a gambit of similar size on Nodic East Africa, rest assured that there would be no J Andrean left to tell the tale after their ill-fated desecration of our lands."[/i]

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1288302613' post='2495537']
"The Athenian Federation considers action required with terms that are not proportional to the original cause of the war nor the conduct of the defender. Ireland has no right to interfere in America just as Americans have no right to meddle in Europe. Furthermore we do not care about your expectations in any form"
[/quote]

Like I said, Canuckistan does not subscribe to your parochial morality. You merely regurgitating its tepid platitudes has no affect on that position. I assume that comment was meant for the fellow ignoramuses who find comfort in brutish and lazy ideologies.

[Kaiser Martens]

[quote]What more, if the Irish released their prisoners, only for a multiple of 400,000 American citizens to be slaughtered at their released hands? Would you invade J Andres? Your foolish idealism is nothing more than ill-advised soapboxing."[/quote]

"American citizens? Is America still a country? I don't understand. I'd fight J Andres however if upon returning the 400k it'd try to continue the war by attacking Ireland instead of going for peace, though. That's what the whole proposal is about: Creating peace between J Andres and Ireland by returning the 400k to where they belong. Ireland irrationally opposes this, so they must be stopped, because if Europe does not allow Americans to mess with it then it must not allow other Europeans to mess with America, and also because the Irish government then are just being my idols. Yes, my idols.. They can get peace anytime but instead choose to jail a number close to half a million." Tambarskjelve himself said so, and forbade his comments from being censored.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Kaiser Martens

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='Kaiser Martens' timestamp='1288324076' post='2496023']
"American citizens? Is America still a country? I don't understand. I'd fight J Andres however if upon returning the 400k it'd try to continue the war by attacking Ireland instead of going for peace, though. That's what the whole proposal is about: Creating peace between J Andres and Ireland by returning the 400k to where they belong. Ireland irrationally opposes this, so they must be stopped, because if Europe does not allow Americans to mess with it then it must not allow other Europeans to mess with America, and also because the Irish government then are just being my idols. Yes, my idols.. They can get peace anytime but instead choose to jail a number close to half a million." Tambarskjelve himself said so, and forbade his comments from being censored.
[/quote]

[i]"We apologize, we did not know your governing body was so dense as to not realize that we are referring to what ever North American citizens the J Andrean Empire would kill in which ever North American nation they are currently involved in conflict with.

If you wish for peace, do not deny either side leverage over the other. J Andres absolutely cannot attack Ireland without killing some of its own soldiers while they are held legally in detention. J Andres is an American nation, a nation with a notoriously low tolerance for casualties. It cries out for its sons and daughters to return unharmed. Its compunction for being rigid during peace negociations would be severely diminished. Conversely, the Irish would be more comfortable knowing that they possess something that the J Andreans want more than Irish land, concessions will be able to be made under these conditions."[/i]

[Sargun II]

Ireland is at war with J Andres. They captured enemy soldiers and instead of executing them, like nations would have done in the past, Ireland treats them well and puts them as Prisoners of War. There is not a single documented case of abuse or neglect among these PoWs. In fact, nobody here can claim these men are being neglected or abused or treated badly (their PoW status notwithstanding). Ireland is [b]still[/b] at war with J Andres, and as such by all conventional and logical mannerisms of war they are doing the right thing by not giving soldiers back to the enemy.

In essence, the nations who signed this document are forcing Ireland to give soldiers to a nation at war with them. This is tantamount to a declaration of war against Ireland.

[Justinian the Mighty]

The naval taskforce that had left Scottish ports not long ago is turning around and sailing to international waters in the North Atlantic Ocean. The admiral is under orders to use the fleet to prop up Irish sovereignty although the government claims the fleet is on regular maneuvers.

[Subtleknifewielder]

"The nations signing this document must have short memories."

"Athens, while honorable in some degrees, shows a fair degree of hypocrisy on this announcement. They claim they do this as a balance--that if Amercans should stay out of Europe then Europe should not touch Americans. And yet they played no part in the balance--until the J Andres troops fled like dogs with their tails under their legs, and then only to protect the Americans. The Germans can't even say that much."

"Scotland, ye who were guaranteed independence by the Irish, turn your backs toward your liberators. Why should we not be surprised, however, considering the long history between the Irish and the Scotts?"

"England, too, owes their independence in part to the Irish. They too revert to their poor history with their erstwhile colony."

"Portugal...you shipped some of those prisoners to them. Don't pretend your hands are clean."

"Now, we fully expect others to ignore/mock this announcement, but the truth is simple, that J Andres did indeed reject the terms offered by Ireland--J Andres is still, at the very least, technically at war with Ireland, and there has not been a peep out of J Andres, before this announcement, calling for the prisoners back."

[Margrave]

The Hanseatic Republic believes this declaration counter-intuitive to peace; the threat of war against Ireland on behalf of a former belligerent half a world away will do no good, for Europe or for the Americans. Are you so ready to send men and women of your own blood and kin to kill and be killed? No one doubts the fighting spirit of the Germans, and Athenian strength is well attested to; and who has yet found a Scot not able for the fight? Why then, if this is well known, do you act as though your strength were in need of testing? Ireland considers themselves to be still at war with J Andres; regardless of the political stance of other European nations. Let them settle their differences with J Andres; to treat the Irish nation so childishly is an offense to the sovereignty of their nation-state and demeans them and you.


All this said, the Hanseatic Republic wishes only for peace; and offers itself as a non-involved party to assist the peace process as we can; we request that the Irish Kingdom allow a small team of Hanseatic Observers into the prison camps, that we may then report to the world our findings. If Ireland is indeed treating these POW's justly, how then can Irish Sovereignty continue to be insulted?

[Centurius]

[quote name='Subtleknifewielder' timestamp='1288485109' post='2497618']
"The nations signing this document must have short memories."

"Athens, while honorable in some degrees, shows a fair degree of hypocrisy on this announcement. They claim they do this as a balance--that if Amercans should stay out of Europe then Europe should not touch Americans. And yet they played no part in the balance--until the J Andres troops fled like dogs with their tails under their legs, and then only to protect the Americans. The Germans can't even say that much."

"Scotland, ye who were guaranteed independence by the Irish, turn your backs toward your liberators. Why should we not be surprised, however, considering the long history between the Irish and the Scotts?"

"England, too, owes their independence in part to the Irish. They too revert to their poor history with their erstwhile colony."

"Portugal...you shipped some of those prisoners to them. Don't pretend your hands are clean."

"Now, we fully expect others to ignore/mock this announcement, but the truth is simple, that J Andres did indeed reject the terms offered by Ireland--J Andres is still, at the very least, technically at war with Ireland, and there has not been a peep out of J Andres, before this announcement, calling for the prisoners back."
[/quote]

"Your nation is very wrong, it was the Athenian Federation that declared war on Louisiana and J Andres when they invaded Portugal, it was the Athenian Federation who tried to push for J Andrean withdrawal from the British Isles. Were it not for a premature declaration of war they would have withdrawn. Athens has send men and women to the battlefield to preserve European sovereignty and were J Andres or any other nation to set up a colony in Europe we would be among the first to stop them. However it is our opinion we can not have a stable Europe when European nations actively try to solve disputes far from the continent."

[Triyun]

As an ally to both the J. Andrean and Athenian Federation, the United Federation of the East can confirm that Australia simply has its facts wrong and Athens is correct. Athens had nearly secured a deal for the peaceful withdrawal of the J. Andrean Forces from the British Isles.

[Triyun]

As an ally to both the J. Andrean and Athenian Federation, the United Federation of the East can confirm that Australia simply has its facts wrong and Athens is correct. Athens had nearly secured a deal for the peaceful withdrawal of the J. Andrean Forces from the British Isles.

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Margrave' timestamp='1288486972' post='2497634']
All this said, the Hanseatic Republic wishes only for peace; and offers itself as a non-involved party to assist the peace process as we can; we request that the Irish Kingdom allow a small team of Hanseatic Observers into the prison camps, that we may then report to the world our findings. If Ireland is indeed treating these POW's justly, how then can Irish Sovereignty continue to be insulted?
[/quote]

Haneseatic observers are, of course, welcome to verify the Kingdom's claims that the POWs are being treated well.

[Subtleknifewielder]

"We admit the message was poorly worded...but we also already acknowledged that Athens had retained some of its honor...this held completely true up until the point of the occupation of the British Isles--you were in a position to force them out of Europe entirely...and did nothing. You fought courageously in France...but in expelling the Americans you fought only when it was convenient. You did nothing to help your ally when France turned from its imperialistic ways to expel them from the continent completely."

"And the UFE needs to check its communication systems. Their message has repeated i tself."

OOC: doublepost, Triyun?

[Triyun]

"What you are of course leaving out is that the Athenians were placing diplomatic pressure on J. Andres to leave without blood shed taking place, Europe had already been in a terrible war which saw utter destruction in both Germany and France. At that time had the Louisianians and J. Andreans resisted in the Isles the death toll would have been much much higher. Athens pursued a strategy to ensure that not all three of Western Europe's great nations were in flames at the same time, and that strategy largely succeeded until the Irish who are basically Louisianians who switch flags decided to push for war even when J. Andres was ready to withdraw peacefully."