The New Grämlins

[Crymson]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' date='13 April 2010 - 11:45 PM' timestamp='1271223925' post='2259768']
There you go, MHA. You may now cancel with a clear conscience.
[/quote]

This would require that they have the capability to make decisions for themselves. Unfortunately, they don't. Hence the eternal treaties.

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Crymson' date='14 April 2010 - 07:20 AM' timestamp='1271226009' post='2259802']
This would require that they have the capability to make decisions for themselves. Unfortunately, they don't. Hence the eternal treaties.
[/quote]

Coming from the man whos decisions saw TOP go down in flames, thats rich to say the least.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='14 April 2010 - 12:14 PM' timestamp='1271218471' post='2259698']
I'm not asking the Ramlins. I'm asking someone from MHA. The question still stands and it's an easy one to answer. It's either "Yes" or "No."
[/quote]

TOP looking at re-entering given your question?

When you answer that with a yes or no, I will answer yours.

Edited April 14, 2010 by nutkase

[Sal Paradise]

I like the new Grämlins a lot more than the old Grämlins. That's not saying much, but to see certain people in this thread whining about them leads me to believe that I am, as usual, on the right side.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Sal Paradise

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='nutkase' date='14 April 2010 - 04:09 AM' timestamp='1271232541' post='2259859']
TOP looking at re-entering given your question?

When you answer that with a yes or no, I will answer yours.
[/quote]
Would the outcome of his answer determine yours or have you guys already decided?

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Alterego' date='14 April 2010 - 06:51 AM' timestamp='1271224295' post='2259772']
They cant answer it because they dont run their own alliance. Just because they are big doesnt mean they wear the pants. Shamlins clearly give the orders in this relationship and until Ramwedge gives his skivvies in Totally Harmless their orders they are as much in the dark as the rest of us. Its the only possible reason that they cant give a simple answer to a simple question.
[/quote]


[quote name='Crymson' date='14 April 2010 - 07:20 AM' timestamp='1271226009' post='2259802']
This would require that they have the capability to make decisions for themselves. Unfortunately, they don't. Hence the eternal treaties.
[/quote]

The most stupid comments in this thread. Well done Somehow I have this weird nagging feeling that you're both wrong!

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='14 April 2010 - 04:41 AM' timestamp='1271234461' post='2259873']
The most stupid comments in this thread. Well done Somehow I have this weird nagging feeling that you're both wrong!
[/quote]
MHA has already shown and explained in the past that their eternal treaties mean they'll support that ally when they agree with them, although if they disagree with an ally they could always just not do anything with it like they've done with treaties in the past they can't cancel in a timely manner.

I think MHA has a tendency to hold onto treaties longer than the relationship is there or they willing to fight for that alliance should things go badly. I think Ramirus has long stopped caring what MHA thinks, so there is no relationship other than MHA trying to not look like it was any easy choice when they drop Gremlins or ignore the treaty.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Methrage

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='14 April 2010 - 09:58 AM' timestamp='1271231905' post='2259855']
Coming from the man whos decisions saw TOP go down in flames, thats rich to say the least.
[/quote]

Well, at least TOP's making decisions.


[quote name='nutkase' date='14 April 2010 - 10:09 AM' timestamp='1271232541' post='2259859']
TOP looking at re-entering given your question?

When you answer that with a yes or no, I will answer yours.
[/quote]

I am not government of my alliance, but I certainly could imagine fighting for IRON and DAWN as soon as we are done paying the reps and are in range again.
However if gRAMlins continue dropping nations then they'll be down before we have sent the first unit to CnG....

The answers of several MHA Members in this thread prove that you are nothing but opportunistic. It also proves that you are incapable of making your own decisions. MHA is an alliance I want to be in. (/sarcasm)

Edited April 14, 2010 by Baden-Württemberg

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='14 April 2010 - 10:02 AM' timestamp='1271235719' post='2259877']
Well, at least TOP's making decisions.




I am not government of my alliance, but I certainly could imagine fighting for IRON and DAWN as soon as we are done paying the reps and are in range again.
However if gRAMlins continue dropping nations then they'll be down before we have sent the first unit to CnG....

The answers of several MHA Members in this thread prove that you are nothing but opportunistic. It also proves that you are incapable of making your own decisions. MHA is an alliance I want to be in. (/sarcasm)
[/quote]


Oh another one who thinks he knows whats going on behind the closed doors of MHA eh?

Like anybody with any grasp of common sense can say, decisions take time to come to and time to act upon. Just because you see nothing in public does not mean something has not been started in private. Speculate as you wish but to start spouting rubbish thinking you know what goes on behind our alliance better than those of us actually in it is absurd.

As for being oppurtunistic w/e. We peaced out with IRON did we not? Think its Ramlins being the oppurtunistic ones keeping them in an eternal war. But i guess people fail to grasp that one still.

[Cormalek]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='14 April 2010 - 02:50 AM' timestamp='1271206208' post='2259384']
I didn't see any concrete answers from him when others asked similar questions. A "yes" or "no" is all that is needed.
[/quote]
Play chess. It's easy there, they're either black or white, to your liking. Here, things are a bit more complicated.
Ok, so do you really want to know a straightforward answer to those questions?

[quote name='Titus Pullo' date='14 April 2010 - 03:49 AM' timestamp='1271209774' post='2259483']
That would be fair too logical of an action for HARAMlins to make.
[/quote]
To the contrary - it would be illogical for us to do so. Apparently some people here understand this, explanation has been provided.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='14 April 2010 - 06:39 AM' timestamp='1271219933' post='2259717']
The question has been asked multiple times in this thread, and each it has been intentionally ignored. Given that, I doubt they will man up and be forthright anytime soon.

Disappointing though, if they did not want this to reflect on them, now would be a good time to speak up.
[/quote]
Il Impero Romano - I personally answered like 3 or 4 of those (1 via PM). And now I feel silly about it, because apparently [s]most people here[/s] some of more vocal here, are unwilling to make the effort to read between the lines, and assess the situation. I trust that reading our posts (and where we explicitly pointed you towards like 3 times already for christ sakes) will help to change your mind about "MHA ignoring questions".
[disclaimer - although I do ignore(as in not read them) some posts, yes. But 1 - they're from people not only uninvolved, but who cannot be reasoned with, 2 - I doubt they contribute anyway, 3 - I know there are hitchhikers who expose their minds to those posts. No need to increase the collateral on my side)


OK, so you guys really want to get the answer on this one? You really want a simple answer to questions asked in this thread? So using my knowledge of our gov, I will give you a final, definite answer to questions asked in this thread, as most of discussions are being held at IRC anyways. And I can assure you, that[b] this is what our triums would answer[/b]. Don't whine if it is too explicit or not to your liking, you've asked for it. So the answer is [/me checks]... 42.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Cormalek' date='14 April 2010 - 05:13 AM' timestamp='1271236367' post='2259880']
So the answer is [/me checks]... 42.
[/quote]
I think that probably means it depends who declares whether they get involved or not, or something along those lines.

I'd rather see you guys outright cancel it if you really oppose Gremlins and make a statement, doing a partial act that your upholding the treaty while not activating it militarily like with NPO in the Karma War is pointless and doesn't help anybody imo.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Methrage

[shilo]

[quote name='janax' date='14 April 2010 - 02:33 AM' timestamp='1271205180' post='2259367']
And ye shall receive...


[quote]If TOP/FCC/Umb/Argent decide to attack MHA, they shouldn't get butt-hurt that Grämlins defends MHA by attacking back...but if MHA is wrong (according to us), then I'd say attack MHA along with the rest of Cit...but after the war I'd still be friends with MHA...[/quote]
I'm sure you can get independent verification.
[/quote]
A nice one, I do wonder what some in MHA think about that

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='14 April 2010 - 11:10 AM' timestamp='1271236215' post='2259879']
Oh another one who thinks he knows whats going on behind the closed doors of MHA eh?[/quote]

No, Mr. Government Advisor. I am not, and have said that multiple times, knowing what MHA does behind the scenes. I am judging your alliance by the representatives on these Forums. And the two points I have raised above are the conclusions. And apparently I am not alone with these.

[quote]
Like anybody with any grasp of common sense can say, decisions take time to come to and time to act upon. [/quote]

You are right, I lack common sense. How could I expect that an official Declaration of Support / Declaration of Neutrality / or treaty cancellation takes less than a week...

I know it's an eternal treaty, but that's (and you'll agree with me on that) your very own problem. You signed it.

Now if you want to cancel the treaty you have three possibilities:

1. You disband and reform the MHA, and then re-sign all other treaties. It's a poor political stunt but it has flair, my personal favorite.
2. You contact Grämlins and ask them for a mutual agreement to cancel the treaty. If both parties consider a treaty void in a binding agreement it pretty much can get dumped.
3. You consider the treaty void, because Grämlins have violated it.

[quote]
Just because you see nothing in public does not mean something has not been started in private. Speculate as you wish but to start spouting rubbish thinking you know what goes on behind our alliance better than those of us actually in it is absurd.[/quote]

Well, I am a big fan of private channels myself, but as long as you won't give clear answers, I am not going to stop speculating. Of course, if MHA finally finds some balls and gets this business done, I'll be the first one with flowers and congratulations. My opinion about MHA stands, thanks to this drama, thanks to the recent war, and thanks to the Karma war. I don't see how that is absurd.

[quote]
As for being oppurtunistic w/e. We peaced out with IRON did we not? Think its Ramlins being the oppurtunistic ones keeping them in an eternal war. But i guess people fail to grasp that one still.
[/quote]

gRAMlins being opportunistic excludes MHA being opportunistic? That's interesting.

[Sephiroth]

Surely MHA can see why they would be viewed as opportunistic if they hold onto the treaty with the intention of only honoring it if someone they don't like hits Gremlins, or their decision to help or not could be viewed as based on which side is winning. For example if an alliance previously under no-entry terms for the last war declared with apparently little support MHA would be more likely to help than if a large coalition capable of rolling MHA along with Gremlins were to declare. I think the sooner MHA makes their position clear the better regardless of whether they decide to stick with Gremlins or not.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Methrage

[majorddf]

I will say two things...

1) Gre and MHA are very much their own Alliances. We share a close bond that many other Alliances do not. Do not however mistake that for a Puppet/Master relationship. Gre do their thing, we do ours. In relation to the current goings on, we are Observing. No more, no less.

2)In response to all other questions, on behalf of the Triumvirate of the MHA I say: 42.

Edited for Grammar

Edited April 14, 2010 by majorddf

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='Methrage' date='14 April 2010 - 11:34 AM' timestamp='1271237628' post='2259893']
Surely MHA can see why they would be viewed as opportunistic if they hold onto the treaty with the intention of only honoring it if someone they don't like hits Gremlins, or their decision to help or not could be viewed as based on which side is winning. For example if an alliance previously under no-entry terms for the last war declared with apparently little support MHA would be more likely to help than if a large coalition capable of rolling MHA along with Gremlins were to declare. The sooner MHA makes their position clear the better I think.
[/quote]

And the cancellation on NPO during Karma, and the cancellation on TOP during the last war. I must add though, I can't judge whether they canceled it because there was no friendship left(I'd respect that), or whether they canceled it because they were opportunistic. Although some of the posts of their actions and posts make me believe it's the second one.

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Methrage' date='14 April 2010 - 10:34 AM' timestamp='1271237628' post='2259893']
Surely MHA can see why they would be viewed as opportunistic if they hold onto the treaty with the intention of only honoring it if someone they don't like hits Gremlins, or their decision to help or not could be viewed as based on which side is winning. For example if an alliance previously under no-entry terms for the last war declared with apparently little support MHA would be more likely to help than if a large coalition capable of rolling MHA along with Gremlins were to declare. The sooner MHA makes their position clear the better I think.
[/quote]

I believe you can see posts by me here stating that IRON have told us they will not be bringing any help into this because they have no wish for things to escalate.

Our position is fairly clear, just a shame you couldnt interpret that eh? Due to IRON wishing to do their thing and have fun smashing Ramlins (Go IRON), we have no desire nor any requirement to come in. Like the good Major says we are observing.


Edit:

In response to the above i think it was quite clear to see there was no love lost between Us and TOP. So it really was a "we no longer like you" thing. But then a puppet of TOP will always think otherwise.

Edited April 14, 2010 by scutterbug

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='14 April 2010 - 05:41 AM' timestamp='1271238048' post='2259900']
I believe you can see posts by me here stating that IRON have told us they will not be bringing any help into this because they have no wish for things to escalate.

Our position is fairly clear, just a shame you couldnt interpret that eh? Due to IRON wishing to do their thing and have fun smashing Ramlins (Go IRON), we have no desire nor any requirement to come in. Like the good Major says we are observing.
[/quote]
I don't think its a cases of IRON wishing to do their thing and have fun continuing this as they don't want to unconditionally surrender, also observing isn't a clear position on what would happen if it escalated more, unless you're saying you would just continue observing in that case as well. Observing is usually what you do as you're still deciding on something.

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Methrage' date='14 April 2010 - 10:49 AM' timestamp='1271238542' post='2259907']
I don't think its a cases of IRON wishing to do their thing and have fun continuing this as they don't want to unconditionally surrender, also observing isn't a clear position on what would happen if it escalated more, unless you're saying you would just continue observing in that case as well. Observing is usually what you do as you're still deciding on something.
[/quote]

I truely give up with you Meth, what part of IRON not chosing to escalating this is too difficult to understand? It wont escalate more therefore Ramlins are out on their own reaping what Ram's ego brings them.

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='14 April 2010 - 11:41 AM' timestamp='1271238048' post='2259900']
I believe you can see posts by me here stating that IRON have told us they will not be bringing any help into this because they have no wish for things to escalate.

Our position is fairly clear, just a shame you couldnt interpret that eh? Due to IRON wishing to do their thing and have fun smashing Ramlins (Go IRON), we have no desire nor any requirement to come in. Like the good Major says we are observing.


Edit:

In response to the above i think it was quite clear to see there was no love lost between Us and TOP. So it really was a "we no longer like you" thing. But then a puppet of TOP will always think otherwise.
[/quote]

With your cheap shots against me, you aren't going to impress anyone.

That said, I haven't even said it's a fact, or MHA IS ALL EBIL. I have simply said there are these two possibilities, and there are indications that you are opportunistic, or at least the claim that you might be, is not absurd.

Also, better a puppet of TOP than a puppet of Grämlins.

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='14 April 2010 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1271238722' post='2259909']
With your cheap shots against me, you aren't going to impress anyone.

That said, I haven't even said it's a fact, or MHA IS ALL EBIL. I have simply said there are these two possibilities, and there are indications that you are opportunistic, or at least the claim that you might be, is not absurd.

Also, better a puppet of TOP than a puppet of Grämlins.
[/quote]

It can quite clearly be seen here you started with the cheap shots so please dont try that one. Or need i quote?


"And the cancellation on NPO during Karma, and the cancellation on TOP during the last war. I must add though, I can't judge whether they canceled it because there was no friendship left(I'd respect that), or whether they canceled it because they were opportunistic. Although some of the posts of their actions and posts make me believe it's the second one."

Something you clearly have no clue about regarding MHA/TOP due to the fact you aint even a member of either. Dont blame me when i respond in kind.

As for being a gramlin puppet, doubtful at best. Think the sheer amount of dislike some of us in MHA are showing over this makes it very clear we are far from being puppets. Even told Ram personally would it not be for my loyalty to MHA i would personally declare on him now and help IRON.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='14 April 2010 - 05:51 AM' timestamp='1271238701' post='2259908']
I truely give up with you Meth, what part of IRON not chosing to escalating this is too difficult to understand? It wont escalate more therefore Ramlins are out on their own reaping what Ram's ego brings them.
[/quote]
IRON is probably basing their decision on the assumption that Gremlins allies would interfere restarting the same war that just peaced out. I agree it probably has been of IRON's choosing that none of their allies have jumped in yet.

[shilo]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='14 April 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1271238701' post='2259908']
I truely give up with you Meth, what part of IRON not chosing to escalating this is too difficult to understand? It wont escalate more therefore Ramlins are out on their own reaping what Ram's ego brings them.
[/quote]
No offense, but someone who has Cormalek in his ranks, the master of reading between the lines, you should check that one more time:
obviously no one cares to ignite this war beyond gRAMlins, but surely no one will mind getting more manpower onto the field to beat them back to their senses sooner. Right now what's stopping this is MHA threatening if we get help they will escalate it.

So, us getting help is still very much appreciated, we still are completely outmatched in the top ranks, and without support have a very long battle ahead of us until we can deliver the hurt to the last remaining gRAMlin. What we don't want is that those that come to our help then get beatdown by MHA and a coalition of their friends. We wouldn't do that to our friends.

[scutterbug]

[quote name='shilo' date='14 April 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1271239506' post='2259917']
No offense, but someone who has Cormalek in his ranks, the master of reading between the lines, you should check that one more time:
obviously no one cares to ignite this war beyond gRAMlins, but surely no one will mind getting more manpower onto the field to beat them back to their senses sooner. Right now what's stopping this is MHA threatening if we get help they will escalate it.

So, us getting help is still very much appreciated, we still are completely outmatched in the top ranks, and without support have a very long battle ahead of us until we can deliver the hurt to the last remaining gRAMlin. What we don't want is that those that come to our help then get beatdown by MHA and a coalition of their friends. We wouldn't do that to our friends.
[/quote]

Sorry i didnt know DAWN spoke for IRON now.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Methrage' date='14 April 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1271237628' post='2259893']
Surely MHA can see why they would be viewed as opportunistic if they hold onto the treaty with the intention of only honoring it if someone they don't like hits Gremlins, or their decision to help or not could be viewed as based on which side is winning. For example if an alliance previously under no-entry terms for the last war declared with apparently little support MHA would be more likely to help than if a large coalition capable of rolling MHA along with Gremlins were to declare. I think the sooner MHA makes their position clear the better regardless of whether they decide to stick with Gremlins or not.
[/quote]


When did MHA say we will only declare if its someone we don't like?
When has sitting in the sidelines become opportunistic?
When have we said we would more likely become involved if its only a small alliance rather then a large Coalition?

A lot of hypothetical scenario's in that text of yours.