Official Announcement from the Grand Global Alliance

[Vilien]

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='01 March 2010 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1267462131' post='2209983']
Voting against it does not mean that the measure was without its supporters. Additionally, the desires of pre-war GGA membership are much different than the desires of the GGA following this last war; this move allowed us to survive and cut away a cancer that would one day kill us, and had maimed us some time ago.

Calling this a coup, while convenient for the sake of terminology, is incorrect. It should be referred to as a rescuing, a renaissance, a revival, as anything other than a coup and all the negativity that accompanies such action. There is no negativity within the new GGA, and we are all working hard to develop an improved GGA that will return the alliance and its members to its former glory.
[/quote]
An illegal action taken to overthrow a government with the support of a few is the textbook definition of a coup, but I don't need to remind you of that, do I?

[Tony Greyfox]

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='01 March 2010 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1267462131' post='2209983']
Voting against it does not mean that the measure was without its supporters. Additionally, the desires of pre-war GGA membership are much different than the desires of the GGA following this last war; this move allowed us to survive and cut away a cancer that would one day kill us, and had maimed us some time ago.

Calling this a coup, while convenient for the sake of terminology, is incorrect. It should be referred to as a rescuing, a renaissance, a revival, as anything other than a coup and all the negativity that accompanies such action. There is no negativity within the new GGA, and we are all working hard to develop an improved GGA that will return the alliance and its members to its former glory.
[/quote]

That's an interesting way to describe the situation. What I saw was several members that came in during the dark of night, had our previous forums entirely deleted (taking with it the discussion regarding the proposal that had been made and rejected, allowing it to be redefined however they want now; and I'm still unsure of exactly why the forums were deleted - the reply I got to that question really baffles me), declared themselves government, and are now rebuilding a charter to replace the one that they essentially tore up and trampled by their actions. That defines as a coup to me. It kind of brings its own tone to things - a tone that leaves those opposed to the situation with no real way of expressing themselves.
I did at one point ask why Shane didn't come to the membership with his concerns instead of immediately jumping aboard with Dementual, RM, and JB, but that question was never answered.

So, I guess I'm a cancer, and part of the problem. I only fought in three major wars for the GGA, worked to recruit new members, helped guide new arrivals, stuff like that. Big problem, there.

Frankly, I'm not sure why I stuck around as long as I did afterwards, considering the coup shoved aside someone I've been friends with for a decade or so before I even introduced them to CyberNations. Lingering hope, I suppose. But as it is, after 750 days with the GGA, it was time to move on. I hope the folks who are still there that I interacted with have some luck in reshaping things, though. I'll be watching with interest.

[Dementual]

[quote name='Tony Greyfox' date='01 March 2010 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1267483409' post='2210344']
That's an interesting way to describe the situation. What I saw was several members that came in during the dark of night, had our previous forums entirely deleted (taking with it the discussion regarding the proposal that had been made and rejected, allowing it to be redefined however they want now; and I'm still unsure of exactly why the forums were deleted - the reply I got to that question really baffles me), declared themselves government, and are now rebuilding a charter to replace the one that they essentially tore up and trampled by their actions.
[/quote]
Okay then, I guess you missed the part where we didn't get rid of the old location. But go ahead and blame me for it. It's nice to know that I have the kind of power to destroy entire castles without even realizing it.

[Sir Sci]

I don't know the other two well at all, but anything that includes Dementual is win.

I support Dementual, and if he's a Triumvir of the GGA, then best of luck to 'em!

EDIT: I think you need to find a way to get P_C back though, just for the lol of it.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Sir Sci

[Iotupa]

I had actually left thinking this discussion was through. Unfortunately it appears as though it is not. The fact of the matter is that Andre was an extremely inactive and ineffective leader of the GGA, which I have statements from the entire former government of the GGA to support. His posts here claiming otherwise are laughable at best.

I wish all former GGA'ers good luck and to those of you who said we've lost a quarter of the membership, that may be correct, but some of the nations have simply disappeared off the face of Planet Bob and would have regardless of the name of the person in charge (OOC: They were deleted for inactivity.). We are hard at work internally on creating and implementing new programs and fixing the GGA, so I may or may not be back to address points made here in this public area. Anyone who wishes to may contact me in private, however, as I am always willing to answer questions.

[DerekJones]

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='01 March 2010 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1267462131' post='2209983']
Calling this a coup, while convenient for the sake of terminology, is incorrect. It should be referred to as a rescuing, a renaissance, a revival, as anything other than a coup and all the negativity that accompanies such action. There is no negativity within the new GGA, and we are all working hard to develop an improved GGA that will return the alliance and its members to its former glory.
[/quote]

There really isn't another name to give to the actions of a few people to eradicate the charter and install themselves as leaders, especially after some of their proposals to install themselves as leaders were voted down by the membership before the coup. I'm not seeing a ton of support for these underhanded tactics to take control of an alliance in public spectrum, and a good deal of members are leaving, suggesting internal instability. The Grand Global Alliance has lost its charter, identity, and history as a result of this coup. The only thing you retain is a couple willing members, a lot of apathetic nations, and the name Grand Global Alliance, a name in which your claim to it is debatable at best. So, I'm really not sure how it's much of a renaissance.

Edited March 2, 2010 by DerekJones

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='01 March 2010 - 05:57 PM' timestamp='1267488047' post='2210464']
I had actually left thinking this discussion was through. Unfortunately it appears as though it is not. The fact of the matter is that Andre was an extremely inactive and ineffective leader of the GGA, which I have statements from the entire former government of the GGA to support. His posts here claiming otherwise are laughable at best.
[/quote]

So if any one member of the new "renaissance" GGA government goes inactive for a bit an outsider like myself has the right to delete your forums and replace you with members outside the alliance? Is there no provision to replace a member of government that members have issue with? Or is it because that was tried and the vote failed?

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='01 March 2010 - 05:57 PM' timestamp='1267488047' post='2210464']
We are hard at work internally on creating and implementing new programs and fixing the GGA, so I may or may not be back to address points made here in this public area. Anyone who wishes to may contact me in private, however, as I am always willing to answer questions.
[/quote]

Its rather convenient you have time to address this privately but not publicly.

[Iotupa]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='01 March 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1267489359' post='2210497']
Its rather convenient you have time to address this privately but not publicly.
[/quote]

It has more to do with the fact that the public area tends to ignore facts in favor of spin, drama in favor of discourse, while in private discussions can take place without too much of the theatre one finds present here.

[Sir Sci]

[quote name='DerekJones' date='01 March 2010 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1267489142' post='2210491']
There really isn't another name to give to the actions of a few people to eradicate the charter and install themselves as leaders, especially after some of their proposals to install themselves as leaders were voted down by the membership before the coup. I'm not seeing a ton of support for these underhanded tactics to take control of an alliance in public spectrum, and a good deal of members are leaving, suggesting internal instability. The Grand Global Alliance has lost its charter, identity, and history as a result of this coup. The only thing you retain is a couple willing members, a lot of apathetic nations, and the name Grand Global Alliance, a name in which your claim to it is debatable at best. So, I'm really not sure how it's much of a renaissance.
[/quote]

Isn't the history of the GGA to have coups, and successful ones at that? If you want to restore the history, identity, and charter of the GGA, than bring back the Emperor and try and see if you can get P_C back somehow.

[DerekJones]

[quote name='Sir Sci' date='01 March 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1267490957' post='2210541']
Isn't the history of the GGA to have coups, and successful ones at that? If you want to restore the history, identity, and charter of the GGA, than bring back the Emperor and try and see if you can get P_C back somehow.
[/quote]

Ignoring the fact that PC represented a few months of GGA from 2006, which is a small fraction of the total time the alliance has existed, the 2006 coup and this one had a fundamental difference. The coup of PC occurred because one person felt he was above the alliance and its charter, while this coup's intention was to overthrow the charter and essentially put a couple people above the alliance itself.

Edited March 2, 2010 by DerekJones

[Arcades057]

[quote]5) -447,127 Strength Change - Grand Global Alliance [/quote]

Congratulations on your coup thing and here's to hoping you get to number one on the Top 7 Day Smallest Alliance Gains. We're all rooting for you.

Seriously.

[Dementual]

[quote name='DerekJones' date='01 March 2010 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1267494548' post='2210613']
Ignoring the fact that PC represented a few months of GGA from 2006, which is a small fraction of the total time the alliance has existed, the 2006 coup and this one had a fundamental difference. The coup of PC occurred because one person felt he was above the alliance and its charter, while this coup's intention was to overthrow the charter and essentially put a couple people above the alliance itself.
[/quote]
Nice spin.

By that same logic, the Coup of the First Triumvirate could have been considered to have the same intention of putting a couple people in power by deposing of the legitimate leadership.

Whereas [i]actually[/i], both happened to prevent the alliance from ultimately falling apart. So let's move to a topic that's actually debatable now.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Dementual' date='01 March 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1267496174' post='2210651']
Nice spin.

By that same logic, the Coup of the First Triumvirate could have been considered to have the same intention of putting a couple people in power by deposing of the legitimate leadership.

Whereas [i]actually[/i], both happened to prevent the alliance from ultimately falling apart. So let's move to a topic that's actually debatable now.
[/quote]


That's not spin? GGA has lost over a third of its NS in a week.

[DerekJones]

[quote name='Dementual' date='01 March 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1267496174' post='2210651']
Nice spin.

By that same logic, the Coup of the First Triumvirate could have been considered to have the same intention of putting a couple people in power by deposing of the legitimate leadership.

Whereas [i]actually[/i], both happened to prevent the alliance from ultimately falling apart. So let's move to a topic that's actually debatable now.
[/quote]

Let's set aside the fact that your coup to "help" the alliance has, so far, only produced a hemorrhage of the membership. You really can't spin that, so don't bother, Jonathan. Prodigal Chieftain's Grand Global Alliance did not have the same kind of provisions to keep their leader in check that the Grand Global Alliance you overthrew did. When his interests no longer matched the interests of the alliance, he was ousted. From there, provisions were put into place to have a governing body (Elder Statesman) who could remove Triumvirs no longer fit to lead (for example, Jonathan Brookbank). At the same time, the Grand Global Alliance you guys overthrew actually held elections to gauge if members would be willing to undergo a major change to fix the alliance. It was turned down, and you still overthrew them. No, the coups are not the same.

Also, it's hard to interpret your actions in that noble light when you were propositioning for the title of Emperor before the coup, and then having you ultimately take over anyways after that vote failed. Even better, Roy's justification for overthrowing the government regardless of the desire of Grand Global Alliance members is that the members were ignorant. I'm amazed how completely disconnected from reality you guys seem to be in handling this.

Edited March 2, 2010 by DerekJones

[Andre27]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='02 March 2010 - 12:57 AM' timestamp='1267488047' post='2210464']
I had actually left thinking this discussion was through. Unfortunately it appears as though it is not. The fact of the matter is that Andre was an extremely inactive and ineffective leader of the GGA, which I have statements from the entire former government of the GGA to support. His posts here claiming otherwise are laughable at best.

I wish all former GGA'ers good luck and to those of you who said we've lost a quarter of the membership, that may be correct, but some of the nations have simply disappeared off the face of Planet Bob and would have regardless of the name of the person in charge (OOC: They were deleted for inactivity.). We are hard at work internally on creating and implementing new programs and fixing the GGA, so I may or may not be back to address points made here in this public area. Anyone who wishes to may contact me in private, however, as I am always willing to answer questions.
[/quote]

I have this horrible tendency to post only when i have something concrete to post.
I was working on getting the tech circles working for all, trade circles, in advanced talks with two alliances about treaties.

But even if i [i]was[/i] inactive [i]or[/i] ineffective there were plenty of opportunities to either ask me about it, ask me to resign, legally remove me from office. The fact that you chose this route shows that you this is a blatant lie only created to serve your own purpose.

I have to wish you luck without people to head MoF, MoDI, MoR, MoAE and MoF, even though you may have renamed those ministries by now.

It is also sad that you do not care for those people who have left the GGA, could all of this be just to stroke your ego?

[Byron Orpheus]

[quote name='Tony Greyfox' date='01 March 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1267483409' post='2210344']
That's an interesting way to describe the situation.[/quote]
It's the only way to describe the situation.
[quote] What I saw was several members that came in during the dark of night, had our previous forums entirely deleted (taking with it the discussion regarding the proposal that had been made and rejected, allowing it to be redefined however they want now; and I'm still unsure of exactly why the forums were deleted - the reply I got to that question really baffles me), declared themselves government, and are now rebuilding a charter to replace the one that they essentially tore up and trampled by their actions. That defines as a coup to me. It kind of brings its own tone to things - a tone that leaves those opposed to the situation with no real way of expressing themselves.
I did at one point ask why Shane didn't come to the membership with his concerns instead of immediately jumping aboard with Dementual, RM, and JB, but that question was never answered.[/quote]
I need to address this and what some other people have said about this being an effort to override the membership. It isn't a "us v. them" mentality in the GGA, folks. I voted against the measure when it was proposed, and I wholeheartedly support the new government now. Because things change, and drastic action was needed where it was not needed a few weeks ago. The forums were deleted by someone outside of the transitional government, they were not deleted as part of the so-called coup. The charter is being redrafted to reflect the changes in our alliance, and it will be certainly much more effective than the old charter was.

[quote]So, I guess I'm a cancer, and part of the problem. I only fought in three major wars for the GGA, worked to recruit new members, helped guide new arrivals, stuff like that. Big problem, there.[/quote]
Any accomplishment you can throw out there, people on the other side have done as well. Acting like you were somehow special in contrast to the supporters of the transitional government will gain you nothing, for nothing sets you apart from the herd other than some blind allegiance to a government that tried to cast you to the wind.

[Byron Orpheus]

[quote name='DerekJones' date='02 March 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1267489142' post='2210491']
I'm not seeing a ton of support for these underhanded tactics to take control of an alliance in public spectrum,[/quote]
Luckily, the alliance does not rely on the opinions of the public, but on the opinions of the members. If the GGA were a publicly traded alliance, we would be sure to give the shareholders some sort of satisfaction; it is not, however, and therefore we are not beholden to anyone.
[quote] and a good deal of members are leaving, suggesting internal instability.[/quote]
The GGA is losing no more members than if it had been disbanded, which was up until recently a very real threat.
[quote] The Grand Global Alliance has lost its charter,[/quote]
No, we are currently working on the charter which will be up for international display shortly.
[quote] identity,[/quote]
The GGA's identity is for us to decide, not outsiders with nothing better to do than opine on the GGA's status.
[quote] and history[/quote]
This will certainly be apart of a long and noble history, and one day these days will be looked back on as the actions of patriots. The only thing that distinguishes a patriot from a traitor is time and victory.

[KungFuHamster]

[quote name='Dementual' date='01 March 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1267486570' post='2210415']
Okay then, I guess you missed the part where we didn't get rid of the old location. But go ahead and blame me for it. It's nice to know that I have the kind of power to destroy entire castles without even realizing it.
[/quote]


[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='02 March 2010 - 03:05 AM' timestamp='1267513715' post='2211040']
It's the only way to describe the situation.

I need to address this and what some other people have said about this being an effort to override the membership. It isn't a "us v. them" mentality in the GGA, folks. I voted against the measure when it was proposed, and I wholeheartedly support the new government now. Because things change, and drastic action was needed where it was not needed a few weeks ago. The forums were deleted by someone outside of the transitional government, they were not deleted as part of the so-called coup. The charter is being redrafted to reflect the changes in our alliance, and it will be certainly much more effective than the old charter was.


Any accomplishment you can throw out there, people on the other side have done as well. Acting like you were somehow special in contrast to the supporters of the transitional government will gain you nothing, for nothing sets you apart from the herd other than some blind allegiance to a government that tried to cast you to the wind.
[/quote]

Hate to say it Byron but Dementual just said the forums weren't deleted.... Wonder what else the transitional government is keeping from you...

But on a more serious note...I think shaneprice should still address the fact that he has for two times in a row ousted two triumvirs out of office. Um... yeah, cause I miss seeing Shane and since he isn't posting, maybe someone is gonna think he's inactive like Andre, I don't know really. Oh and....lastly...there was a procedure for rewriting the charter, in your person opinion do you think its better to remove 2/3 triumvirs, remove the charter, reinstate some old time GGA members, and then rewrite it...or you know...keep 30 active members and do it the right way? Just curious really, well I just want to see what your answer is.

Don't mean to be rude to Dementual, Shane, and JB, I'm sure you guys are awesome

[KungFuHamster]

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='02 March 2010 - 03:10 AM' timestamp='1267514046' post='2211046']
Luckily, the alliance does not rely on the opinions of the public, but on the opinions of the members. If the GGA were a publicly traded alliance, we would be sure to give the shareholders some sort of satisfaction; it is not, however, and therefore we are not beholden to anyone.

The GGA is losing no more members than if it had been disbanded, which was up until recently a very real threat.

No, we are currently working on the charter which will be up for international display shortly.

The GGA's identity is for us to decide, not outsiders with nothing better to do than opine on the GGA's status.

This will certainly be apart of a long and noble history, and one day these days will be looked back on as the actions of patriots. The only thing that distinguishes a patriot from a traitor is time and victory.
[/quote]

Um...yeah...to respond to your first part...I think its when the opinion of the members, a 75% vote down is disregarded is when you have an issue..wait thats what happened right?

So...since you have more members than if they had all left thats a plus? I mean...any number is more than 0...but losing 30 members is still significant, and you can't pretend they all deleted, your Tri is a diplomat to about half of them.

Skipping charter issue.

I believe what DJ meant is that the Grand Global Alliance's identity. The GGA of his time, the state in which the GGA was created and the state that it "thrived" (don't bother debating this, I don't really care) in is gone, it has been destroyed by recent actions, and is likely to never be created again. Therefore it is only GGA in namesake [b]not[/b] in which he, nor I, nor most would remember. (Sorry DJ if I spoke for you wrong, hope I didn't)

[Byron Orpheus]

[quote name='KungFuHamster' date='02 March 2010 - 07:14 AM' timestamp='1267514256' post='2211049']
Hate to say it Byron but Dementual just said the forums weren't deleted.... Wonder what else the transitional government is keeping from you...[/quote]
I haven't bothered to check on the old forums, I merely heard they were deleted. If they are deleted, they weren't deleted by the transitional government, they would have been deleted by the old government. None of that really matters in the end anyway, but I sense by your joking tone that you already were aware of that.

[quote]there was a procedure for rewriting the charter, in your person opinion do you think its better to remove 2/3 triumvirs, remove the charter, reinstate some old time GGA members, and then rewrite it...or you know...keep 30 active members and do it the right way? Just curious really, well I just want to see what your answer is.[/quote]
Obviously I can't speak for Shane, but I will address your question. I think that the law should be obeyed. Always. However, I am also of the opinion that a government that has neglected its people, and, more importantly, a government that is willing to betray its people has no legitimacy. Therefore the actions of the transitional government were more patriotic than the law itself, and because of this fact the transitional government was given legitimacy.

Furthermore, we still have our active members. It seems that most of the people making such a splash about leaving weren't quite so vocal within the alliance itself, at least from my perspective. We still have people registering on the forums, and nearly every registered member (the number of whom I believe has already surpassed thirty)is contributing actively to the rebuilding of the alliance. We are more active now than ever before; that may be a sad reflection on our activity prior to these events, but it illustrates nothing but hope for our future.

EDIT: And regarding your namesake comment, by that logic just about every alliance is that alliance by name only, since all have changed since their founding. Furthermore, it is up to the current members to decide what is and is not culturally a part of the GGA; it is most assuredly not the responsibility, or even the capability, of those who are on the outside to suggest what does and does not make our alliance what it is. Those who care enough should join and attempt to make it what they think it should be, or silence their voices and find a cause that wants them.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Byron Orpheus

[Dementual]

[quote name='KungFuHamster' date='01 March 2010 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1267514256' post='2211049']
Hate to say it Byron but Dementual just said the forums weren't deleted.... Wonder what else the transitional government is keeping from you...[/quote]
No, they were deleted. I was just saying that none of us did it.

I, personally, was pissed when it happened.

[KungFuHamster]

Oh, thought only root admin could do that...and with shane being the only one to have the account with root admin...weird.

[Iotupa]

[quote name='KungFuHamster' date='02 March 2010 - 11:56 AM' timestamp='1267549179' post='2211413']
Oh, thought only root admin could do that...and with shane being the only one to have the account with root admin...weird.
[/quote]

Actually, degenerate108 owned the old forums.

[KungFuHamster]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='02 March 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1267549955' post='2211432']
Actually, degenerate108 owned the old forums.
[/quote]

But he had to give up his account when he left, and shane got the password. or I am terribly mistaken?

[Iotupa]

[quote name='KungFuHamster' date='02 March 2010 - 12:37 PM' timestamp='1267551678' post='2211470']
But he had to give up his account when he left, and shane got the password. or I am terribly mistaken?
[/quote]

You are mistaken, because degenerate was the owner and the person who deleted the forums.