Kindom of Goon Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Gunnar Griffin' date='12 February 2010 - 05:16 AM' timestamp='1265951768' post='2176751'] The Imperator's decision may or may not have been made. However, I know for certain, whether the decision was made or not, it was never broadcast outside the Legion. It wasn't given to Sparta or anyone, otherwise, and I say this again, we'd have logs to prove it. The decision, whether it was made or not, was kept internal as there would have been a veto vote. [/quote] The fact that you guys seem to have no idea whether or not a decision was made seems the be the main problem which is what I was trying to point out, half of you guys are contradicting each other. Whether or not the formalities were completed, Sparta jumped the gun or your trying to overturn the decision now after miscommunication I don't know (and apparently you guys don't either) and it wasnt my point. That being said, there seems to be a massive overreaction to this on both sides. Not sure why I would expect anything else from this war. Edited February 12, 2010 by Kindom of Goon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Izuzu Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Actually I have read every page of both threads. All I have seen is Spartans resorting to bluster and bravado to try and cover for the fact that there never was a signed agreement to surrender. You have been asked to provide the proof but you haven't done so. Like I said earlier... Typical Spartan fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiCkO Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='Van Hoo III' date='11 February 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1265952138' post='2176786'] The individual stated that Legion does not leave friends on the battlefield when in fact you just did so last war. You surrendered one week into the war while the alliance you came in to defend stayed at war for a [b]much[/b] longer period of time. [/quote] government changes Hoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnar Griffin Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='LucasSnow' date='12 February 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1265951711' post='2176745'] Here is the problem Legion: [b]When someone who speaks for an entire government says peace is had[/b], it is assumed peace is had and posts are made. Now you claim a veto vote was taking place, the proper thing to do would have been to immediately mention this so all parties would know that Peace was in fact not had yet, and that voting was in process. In not doing this you allowed for Peace, official Peace I may add, to be had. Now according to your own Charter you have the right to Veto it, I am not disputing that, and you did. But; this is nothing but bad politics and will spell trouble for Legion for years to come. This is set up so that once Peace is agreed on you have the option to overrule it and redeclare. Many alliances, Sparta included, will take offense to such actions. If there is no peace to be had you must say so, not mislead said governments with false statements or by [b] not speaking up[/b]! You can E-Lawyer all you want, but Peace was had, then you Vetoed it, something that should have been mentioned from the start, you lead us on. Grats on negotiating the wrong way. This is my personal Opinion and not the Official Sparta Position: We offered you White Peace, you denied it. We offered you White Peace again, you accepted it, failed to inform us that a veto vote was in process and the Peace was not Official until said voting was over, you lead us to believe Peace was had by not speaking up, a failure in [b]your[/b] government process, not our own. You withdrew white Peace. Now to reiterate; this is my opinion and not the official stance of Sparta, though I know many agree. This is a slap in the face and an insult, not only was is bad negotiating but a deliberately misleading and hostile action, during peaceful talks. In my opinion; White Peace is off the table, never to be offered again. I'll fight you for the next 5 years before I sign an offer of White Peace. Your own government screwed you. Have fun with the results. [/quote] Can I get proof please. I've said this like ten times. Please make my wish come true! Edited February 12, 2010 by Gunnar Griffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnar Griffin Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='Kindom of Goon' date='12 February 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1265952289' post='2176804'] The fact that you guys seem to have no idea whether or not a decision was made seems the be the main problem which is what I was trying to point out, half of you guys are contradicting each other. Whether or not the formalities were completed, Sparta jumped the gun or your trying to overturn the decision now after miscommunication I don't know (and apparently you guys don't either) and it wasnt my point. That being said, there seems to be a massive overreaction to this on both sides. Not sure why I would expect anything else from this war. [/quote] Goon, all I'm saying is it is irrelevant whether a decision was made or not. I know whether there was a decision made, I just can't divulge it is all. All I know is, that decision, or lack thereof, was not given to any outside parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assarax Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Kindom of Goon' date='11 February 2010 - 11:24 PM' timestamp='1265952289' post='2176804'] The fact that you guys seem to have no idea whether or not a decision was made seems the be the main problem which is what I was trying to point out, half of you guys are contradicting each other. Whether or not the formalities were completed, Sparta jumped the gun or your trying to overturn the decision now after miscommunication I don't know (and apparently you guys don't either) and it wasnt my point. That being said, there seems to be a massive overreaction to this on both sides. Not sure why I would expect anything else from this war. [/quote] [b][size="5"]WRONG!![/size][/b] There was no decision made, that point has been made clear. No one has yet posted a log of any of the consulate, nor our Imperator or Proconsul sending Sparta the signatures required for The Legion to recognize peace with Sparta (why we even considered it is beyond me), so therefore, Sparta's claim is false. Unless of course they can provide what I ask for. Edited February 12, 2010 by assarax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandmdave Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='Gunnar Griffin' date='12 February 2010 - 12:25 AM' timestamp='1265952339' post='2176811'] Can I get proof please. I've said this like ten times. Please make my wish come true! [/quote] How many times does it need to be quoted? [quote][20:37] <Hubb[Legion]> If it's white peace, then it's white peace. 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> It is white peace and you, MASH, Quantum cannot re-enter this war, nor aid your allies until afterwords 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> And if you don't take it tonight, this offer is gone [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> Legion and allies have white peace with Sparta and allies. [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> I understand that.[/quote] [quote][20:37] <Hubb[Legion]> If it's white peace, then it's white peace. 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> It is white peace and you, MASH, Quantum cannot re-enter this war, nor aid your allies until afterwords 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> And if you don't take it tonight, this offer is gone [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> Legion and allies have white peace with Sparta and allies. [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> I understand that.[/quote] [quote][20:37] <Hubb[Legion]> If it's white peace, then it's white peace. 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> It is white peace and you, MASH, Quantum cannot re-enter this war, nor aid your allies until afterwords 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> And if you don't take it tonight, this offer is gone [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> Legion and allies have white peace with Sparta and allies. [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> I understand that.[/quote] Third times the charm right? Either way as everyone keeps saying it doesnt matter at this point. Regardless of whatever your gov is doing its off the table now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucasSnow Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Gunnar Griffin' date='12 February 2010 - 12:25 AM' timestamp='1265952339' post='2176811'] Can I get proof please. I've said this like ten times. Please make my wish come true! [/quote] Sure; here you go: [quote][20:37] <Hubb[Legion]> If it's white peace, then it's white peace. 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> It is white peace and you, MASH, Quantum cannot re-enter this war, nor aid your allies until afterwords 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> And if you don't take it tonight, this offer is gone [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> Legion and allies have white peace with Sparta and allies. [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> I understand that.[/quote] The fact is you guys didn't speak up after this and let us know it wasn't official, that a veto vote was taking place. This is [b]your mistake[/b] not our own. Edited February 12, 2010 by LucasSnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacosby Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Van Hoo III' date='11 February 2010 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1265952138' post='2176786'] We were never part of the hegemony. The individual stated that Legion does not leave friends on the battlefield when in fact you just did so last war. You surrendered one week into the war while the alliance you came in to defend stayed at war for a [b]much[/b] longer period of time. [/quote] I have thought of several different angles to approach my rebuttal of this statement. The first was saying that in our declaration that we didn't agree with the war that our allies had started in the Karma war. The second was that our allies blessed our leaving and urged it. The third was saying that you, obviously now, haven't let your prejudice of The Legion die. I finally decided to go with actions in this conflict. Our allies our still in we are still in. That is the simple fact. If you would like to debate the situation at hand i.e. Sparta jumping the gun and saying that signatures were given in this war when they weren't I would be more than happy to listen. Edited February 12, 2010 by jacosby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='Gunnar Griffin' date='12 February 2010 - 05:17 AM' timestamp='1265951839' post='2176756'] Lol, you fail at trolling. I knew you all were incompetent, but even at trolling? GPA trolls better. [/quote] [ooc]That post is against the rules. I suggest editing it before getting warned.[/ooc] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assarax Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='LucasSnow' date='11 February 2010 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1265952609' post='2176835'] Sure; here you go: [qoute][20:37] <Hubb[Legion]> If it's white peace, then it's white peace. 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> It is white peace and you, MASH, Quantum cannot re-enter this war, nor aid your allies until afterwords 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> And if you don't take it tonight, this offer is gone [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> Legion and allies have white peace with Sparta and allies. [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> I understand that.[/quote] Where the Hell does it say that we AGREE to white peace? All I see here is Hubb clarifying the terms presented to us by Sparta. If this is what Sparta took to be an agreement to terms, they need to hire someone better at reading comprehension to run their alliance. Might I offer my services? Edited February 12, 2010 by assarax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnar Griffin Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='wandmdave' date='12 February 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1265952601' post='2176834'] How many times does it need to be quoted? Third times the charm right? Either way as everyone keeps saying it doesnt matter at this point. Regardless of whatever your gov is doing its off the table now anyway. [/quote] Yes, that only shows he was comprehending the terms. How does that seem like he made a decision of this big a magnitude? Have you guys even negotiated peace before? Edited February 12, 2010 by Gunnar Griffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='assarax' date='12 February 2010 - 05:28 AM' timestamp='1265952489' post='2176824'] [b][size="5"]WRONG!![/size][/b] [b]There was no decision made, that point has been made clear.[/b] No one has yet posted a log of any of the consulate, nor our Imperator or Proconsul sending Sparta the signatures required for The Legion to recognize peace with Sparta (why we even considered it is beyond me), so therefore, Sparta's claim is false. Unless of course they can provide what I ask for. [/quote] Well then tell the OP: [quote]My authority was in turn overruled this evening by our Imperator, and we were ordered to seek white peace.[/quote] and Imperial: [quote]During the course of said peace discussions, an internal veto of the Imperator's decisions was begun[/quote] that they are wrong. As for the rest of your post.. did you ever read what I said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacosby Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='LucasSnow' date='11 February 2010 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1265952609' post='2176835'] Sure; here you go: The fact is you guys didn't speak up after this and let us know it wasn't official, that a veto vote was taking place. This is [b]your mistake[/b] not our own. [/quote] What the hell does that say? That he understood what your were saying? Are you that dense as to misconstrue understanding for acceptance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinite Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='jacosby' date='12 February 2010 - 12:19 AM' timestamp='1265951963' post='2176767'] Actually read the first page of the thread and you might get what you ask for. [/quote] Strange what I heard was [quote]Imperial|Legion-MoFA> Yes, there is an issue, but I have directives for our Imperator and will continue as directed <Imperial|Legion-MoFA> from* <LW[Away]> I appreciate that <[`_`]> what is the issue? <Roquentin> if it's private, it's private <Imperial|Legion-MoFA> Personal opposition mainly[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacosby Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='Trinite' date='11 February 2010 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1265952847' post='2176855'] Strange what I heard was [/quote] That clarifies absolutely nothing. He was directed to speak with you about peace, for us and ALL of our allies. What are you trying to get at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='Sandwich Controversy' date='11 February 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1265946708' post='2176385'] Welp, there goes your shot at white peace I suppose. [/quote] Makes you smile a bit, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucasSnow Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) Comprehending the terms is one thing, but saying, and I quote, [quote]Legion and allies [b]have white peace[/b] with Sparta and allies.[/quote] Is not a confirmation of terms, it is a clear statement. Look, your Leader accepted terms, you vetoed them and are defending your allies, good for you. But you should have notified all at the Peace talks of this before hand, that fact that you did not is a deliberately misleading and hostile action, and it will be taken as so. Period. Edited February 12, 2010 by LucasSnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watcher Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 The veto call was stopped as soon as it became apparent the Imperator's words were twisted and nothing was agreed upon. Nothing was veto'd since nothing was ever agreed upon. Just incase the point is lost, I have yet to see any proof he agreed to peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assarax Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='Kindom of Goon' date='11 February 2010 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1265952791' post='2176852'] Well then tell the OP: and Imperial: that they are wrong. As for the rest of your post.. did you ever read what I said? [/quote] Yes, I did. My intention was to state that even though our membership may not fully understand whether or not a decision was made, the point is, a clear and definite answer was never given to Sparta, which makes this Sparta's fault, regardless of whether it was miscommunication or a piss-poor attempt at forging Legion government signatures to a peace agreement. Indeed, we were ordered to seek white peace, though that does not mean we accepted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Izuzu Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='LucasSnow' date='11 February 2010 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1265952609' post='2176835'] Sure; here you go: [quote] [20:37] <Hubb[Legion]> If it's white peace, then it's white peace. 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> It is white peace and you, MASH, Quantum cannot re-enter this war, nor aid your allies until afterwords 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> And if you don't take it tonight, this offer is gone [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> Legion and allies have white peace with Sparta and allies. [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> I understand that.[/quote] The fact is you guys didn't speak up after this and let us know it wasn't official, that a veto vote was taking place. This is [b]your mistake[/b] not our own. [/quote] Man you Spartans really aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, are you? A guy could make a fortune selling you whetstones. The quote you keep proffering does not state that Hubb accepted the offer. It simply says he understood the offer. Show us the quote where he says something to the effect of "OK, I accept." It is pretty clear that the reason you aren't showing it is because no such acceptance ever took place. I know that it is difficult for you to acknowledge that you SCREWED UP IN POSTING THE SURRENDER, but just man up and admit it. You'll feel better in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assarax Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='LucasSnow' date='11 February 2010 - 11:36 PM' timestamp='1265953000' post='2176872'] Comprehending the terms is one thing saying, and I quote, Is not a confirmation of terms, it is a clear statement. Look, your Leader accepted terms, you vetoed them and are defending your allies, good for you. But you should have notified all at the Peace talks of this before hand, that fact that you did not is a deliberately misleading and hostile action, and it will be taken as so. Period. [/quote] That is not an acceptance. No where EVER does it expressly state that "The Legion accepts the surrender terms presented by Sparta" or anything to that effect. If Hubb had accepted the terms, I guarantee you he would have specifically stated that the Legion voted on the terms and that we accepted them. We're a very straightforward bunch when it comes to stuff like this, unlike Sparta, apparently. Though apparently in Sparta, understanding the terms means you accept them. Remind me to act confused the next time a Spartan speaks to me. Edited February 12, 2010 by assarax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacosby Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='LucasSnow' date='11 February 2010 - 11:36 PM' timestamp='1265953000' post='2176872'] Comprehending the terms is one thing, but saying, and I quote, Is not a confirmation of terms, it is a clear statement. Look, your Leader accepted terms, you vetoed them and are defending your allies, good for you. But you should have notified all at the Peace talks of this before hand, that fact that you did not is a deliberately misleading and hostile action, and it will be taken as so. Period. [/quote] Lol....So you just delete the line after this and expect it to hold up. Grasping at straws, my enemy, grasping at straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.Hubb Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Hi there. Guess what? We were discussing peace. I discussed it with members of my government and another member of Asgaard's government. I was listening to the terms, and never said "Yes, we fully accept white peace." [quote][20:37] <Hubb[Legion]> If it's white peace, then it's white peace. 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> It is white peace and you, MASH, Quantum cannot re-enter this war, nor aid your allies until afterwords 01[20:38] <LW[Away]> And if you don't take it tonight, this offer is gone [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> Legion and allies have white peace with Sparta and allies. [20:38] <Hubb[Legion]> I understand that.[/quote] Where, in there, does it say I accepted. Oh, that's right, it didn't. I was stating what was on the table. Troll if you will, it's what most of you are good at. We entered into negotiations with Sparta and others in good faith. No decision was made, and my signature (along with the sigs of our government) were forged without our consent. Guess what, trolls: Keep quoting it for lulz. I might even put it in my sig. Not our fault you prematurely ejaculated onto the BB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnar Griffin Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [quote name='assarax' date='12 February 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1265953147' post='2176886'] That is not an acceptance. No where EVER does it expressly state that "The Legion accepts the surrender terms presented by Sparta" or anything to that effect. Though apparently in Sparta, understanding the terms means you accept them. Remind me to act confused the next time a Spartan speaks to me. [/quote] In Sparta, a man, even a messenger, is responsible for his words. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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