The ultimate stalemate?

[Hayzell]

ffffffff

TOP has always been home to some of the most ascerbic posters to be found, but the tender OWF never gets much of it because TOP's member forum is also home to the best game discussion I've come across. The true OWF is TOP's member forum. This lively discussion at home plus TOP's unspoken OWF self-policing (if you make TOP look bad on the OWF, you'll hear about it) keeps them at bay for the most part. But when it comes down to it, TOP can be nasty when it wants to. Real nasty.

Wow. You put it perfectly, Schatt.

[Schattenmann]

Well, maybe some members of TOP are being sick of first being criticized for being more successful politically, militarily and economically than most. As if that were a fault by itself, then TOP is criticized for not having died with NPO but actually having fought with the Karma coalition.

Then, it's bad once more that TOP isn't playing the game of those who simply cared to replace Hegemony, not end the system of dominating and destroying anyone opposed.

And then, when finally NeoHegemony aka Supercomplaints starts the war to either destroy most of TOPs allies or even lure in TOP itself with a CB that fits together with the new role of mimicking the methods of NPO at its height, they are criticized for actually trying to make the best out of that situation and not actually playing the game of their enemies.

I for one can truly understand that the patience of some members in TOP is running thin, I truly can.

TOP is destined to ride the fence and get it from both sides. They've got a strong (if shrinking) Paradox Interactive CN invasion old guard that are fiercely loyal to NPO (as their original protectors and years-long allies) and with other values, and a very vocal (and growing) CN native population that have very different values. The gov is a mix of the two (democracy ) and their actions will reflect that.

Wow. You put it perfectly, Schatt.

Love you. Leaving was the biggest mistake I ever made.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Schattenmann

[DougZ37]

ffffffff

TOP has always been home to some of the most ascerbic posters to be found, but the tender OWF never gets much of it because TOP's member forum is also home to the best game discussion I've come across. The true OWF is TOP's member forum. This lively discussion at home plus TOP's unspoken OWF self-policing (if you make TOP look bad on the OWF, you'll hear about it) keeps them at bay for the most part. But when it comes down to it, TOP can be nasty when it wants to. Real nasty.

I feel this sums up my sentiments well; I do think the OWF would be a friendlier/better place if there was more of Feanor, Bodvar Jarl, Walker Ninja, etc. posting.

Edited January 1, 2010 by DougZ37

[Kaiser]

TOP is destined to ride the fence and get it from both sides. They've got a strong (if shrinking) Paradox Interactive CN invasion old guard that are fiercely loyal to NPO (as their original protectors and years-long allies) and with other values, and a very vocal (and growing) CN native population that have very different values. The gov is a mix of the two (democracy ) and their actions will reflect that.

Love you. Leaving was the biggest mistake I ever made.

The old guard members aren't actually a fan of NPO. Otherwise, spot on.

[AirMe]

Well, maybe some members of TOP are being sick of first being criticized for being more successful politically, militarily and economically than most. As if that were a fault by itself, then TOP is criticized for not having died with NPO but actually having fought with the Karma coalition.

Then, it's bad once more that TOP isn't playing the game of those who simply cared to replace Hegemony, not end the system of dominating and destroying anyone opposed.

And then, when finally NeoHegemony aka Supercomplaints starts the war to either destroy most of TOPs allies or even lure in TOP itself with a CB that fits together with the new role of mimicking the methods of NPO at its height, they are criticized for actually trying to make the best out of that situation and not actually playing the game of their enemies.

I for one can truly understand that the patience of some members in TOP is running thin, I truly can.

Your assessment of them being better politically and economically than most anyone else is accurate but I ask for proof that they are better militarily than anyone else? And I also agree with you on the patience running thin but even in that case they should still be able to control it. This conflict when it started had nothing to do with them. At all. They are 2 treaties removed from the conflict on the TPF side and 3 treaties away from it on the Athens side. And, this is going to come across dickish but there is no other way to say it, as TOP has proven in the past they don't do anything they don't want to do. So their involvement here is voluntary and not obligatory.

EDIT: My mind got ahead of my typing.

Edited January 1, 2010 by AirMe

[DougZ37]

The old guard members aren't actually a fan of NPO. Otherwise, spot on.

Not anymore anyways. The jilted lover will take only so much.

[AirMe]

...... and a very vocal (and growing) CN native population that have very different values. The gov is a mix of the two (democracy ) and their actions will reflect that.

Sounds like what I have building in Ronin.

[Kaiser]

Your assessment of them being better politically and economically than most anyone else is accurate but I ask for proof that they are better militarily than anyone else? And I also agree with you on the patience running thin but even in that case they should still be able to control it. This conflict when it started had nothing to do with them. At all. They are 2 treaties removed from the conflict on the TPF side and 3 treaties away from it on the Athens side. And, this is going to come across dickish but there is no other way to say it, as TOP has proven in the past they don't do anything they don't want to do. So their involvement here is voluntary and not obligatory.

EDIT: My mind got ahead of my typing.

Friends don't let friends fight alone, it's as simple as that. We don't give a !@#$ about TPF and their CB, but we let IRON burn months ago, that's not going to happen again. Saying we have nothing to do with it is like saying MK has nothing to do with it, it's simply not true.

EDIT: And this is getting rather off-topic. Let's stop discussing it shall we?

Edited January 1, 2010 by Kaiser

[AirMe]

Friends don't let friends fight alone, it's as simple as that. We don't give a !@#$ about TPF and their CB, but we let IRON burn months ago, that's not going to happen again. Saying we have nothing to do with it is like saying MK has nothing to do with it, it's simply not true.

EDIT: And this is getting rather off-topic. Let's stop discussing it shall we?

But neither alliance is at the center of the conflict is my point. Despite the accusations to the contrary.

[ROMMELHSQ]

you guys are going way off topic now

Edited January 1, 2010 by ROMMELHSQ

[AirMe]

you guys are going way off topic now

My apologies, but I thought the OWF was over saturated with threads by people who consider themselves important so I just interjected it into an existing one. (B

[shilo]

Your assessment of them being better politically and economically than most anyone else is accurate but I ask for proof that they are better militarily than anyone else?

That is simply based on my assumption that when one excels in economics and politics, usually exceling in war goes hand in hand with that.

Of course there likely are quite a few examples where success in war is exclusively based on ability, but at least being good at the first two makes being good at the last one far easier

[Doitzel]

(if you make TOP look bad on the OWF, you'll hear about it)

See my signature for full details.

[Branimir]

They've got a strong (if shrinking) Paradox Interactive CN invasion old guard that are fiercely loyal to NPO (as their original protectors and years-long allies)...

Actually, since the time of the original 11, pdox community was split on the issue of NPO. I would know, I was one of the original 11.

Why TOP got along with NPO was, at the very start, because of pdox NPO community members like Veng which helped to shape that little invasion force into an alliance. That was a strong bridge to build on, as there were NPOers which were pdoxians as well. And then later on Dilber came along. Due to that and TOPs pragmatism "old guard" sided with NPO and during that time managed to grown into a force they are today.

In many ways, it was non avoidable that the bond would break due to influx of membership from alliances we crushed into TOP and NPOs decline in their efforts to keep the bond alive on the membership level. If it weren't for one, it would be another thing that would lead to the current status.

Anyway,..what is the subject of this thread I forgotten,..

[DougZ37]

See my signature for full details.

Harsh but humurous

[Lord Brendan]

There is much about Peace Mode that most players have no clue about. Extended Peace Mode struggles will lead to senate fights and sanctions wars, such as happened once between The Mafia and GOONS on the Black Sphere.

I don't think this is very likely, given the strong taboo regarding sanctions.

If it did though...

(checks who currently holds the Orange senate)

[joracy]

I don't think this is very likely, given the strong taboo regarding sanctions.

If it did though...

(checks who currently holds the Orange senate)

I don't expect there will be a sanction war.

[The AUT]

ffffffff

TOP has always been home to some of the most ascerbic posters to be found, but the tender OWF never gets much of it because TOP's member forum is also home to the best game discussion I've come across. The true OWF is TOP's member forum. This lively discussion at home plus TOP's unspoken OWF self-policing (if you make TOP look bad on the OWF, you'll hear about it) keeps them at bay for the most part. But when it comes down to it, TOP can be nasty when it wants to. Real nasty.

Remember #doitzcave ?

Haha good times.

[Bob]

Walker Ninja

Please no.

Dear god, no.

I think you are mistaken about the quality of certain paradoxian posters, however Bodvar and broadbeans are high quality posters.

[Chalaskan]

TOP is destined to ride the fence and get it from both sides. They've got a strong (if shrinking) Paradox Interactive CN invasion old guard that are fiercely loyal to NPO (as their original protectors and years-long allies) and with other values, and a very vocal (and growing) CN native population that have very different values. The gov is a mix of the two (democracy ) and their actions will reflect that..

Times have changed friend...our loyalty is to IRON, not NPO. We have little to no loyalty for them, and haven't since Kharma.

Love you. Leaving was the biggest mistake I ever made.

You were a good member while there, and added to our community. That is for sure. The after part kinda sucked though

EDIT: Airme, it is irrelevant whether either is at the center of the controversy. Your intentions to pick at sections of old hedge to weaken them is obvious.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Chalaskan

[AirMe]

Times have changed friend...our loyalty is to IRON, not NPO. We have little to no loyalty for them, and haven't since Kharma.

You were a good member while there, and added to our community. That is for sure. The after part kinda sucked though

EDIT: Airme, it is irrelevant whether either is at the center of the controversy. Your intentions to pick at sections of old hedge to weaken them is obvious.

It is your posts that I am most disappointed in. You can't even remember what alliance I am in. Also what the hell are you talking about? Old Hedge? Weaken them? I have no clue what you are talking about.

EDIT: After consulting with a few people I have deduced you are talking about the old Hegemony? I am not out for anyone. Infact if you asked around to an alliance tied directly to TPF you will find that I have been working to warm relations between them and my alliance. As for MK's intention I cannot answer to that, however, when I was their the TOP embassy was a place where great discussion happened and TOP and MK had built a rapport of understanding....at least I thought they had. I think you need to have a little less paranoia and use more facts. No one, to my knowledge, is out to get TOP other than your imaginations.

Edited January 2, 2010 by AirMe

[Chalaskan]

It is your posts that I am most disappointed in. You can't even remember what alliance I am in. Also what the hell are you talking about? Old Hedge? Weaken them? I have no clue what you are talking about.

You are closely tied to your old alliance, don't act like Ronin would have no part in this. Guilt by association is what I am talking about. As to the latter, you must be very naive then.

[AirMe]

You are closely tied to your old alliance, don't act like Ronin would have no part in this. Guilt by association is what I am talking about. As to the latter, you must be very naive then.

Go read my edit as it took me that long to figure out what you were talking about. You are right, I am tied to MK but that doesn't leave me to blindly support them. I have stood against them and their allies publicly on a few occasions. Hell, I have stood against my own alliance on certain issues. It's called being objective and having an open mind.

Again if you are going to accuse me, or anyone of something, use some facts instead of your inherent paranoia.

EDIT: Hell, I have gone toe to toe with Londo far many more times than any of you.

EDIT2: If you are going to pull the guilt by association card, look in the mirror and look at TOP and NPO.

Edited January 2, 2010 by AirMe

[Chalaskan]

EDIT: After consulting with a few people I have deduced you are talking about the old Hegemony? I am not out for anyone. Infact if you asked around to an alliance tied directly to TPF you will find that I have been working to warm relations between them and my alliance. As for MK's intention I cannot answer to that, however, when I was their the TOP embassy was a place where great discussion happened and TOP and MK had built a rapport of understanding....at least I thought they had. I think you need to have a little less paranoia and use more facts. No one, to my knowledge, is out to get TOP other than your imaginations.

Quite the contrary, I think C&G planned on many staying out of this. TOP has our friends though. I never said anyone was out to get us. Just our friends...everyone was well aware of the links from TPF to IRON, and have even baited them trying to make sure they enter.

The way things have played out makes certain things obvious, even to a bystander.

EDIT: Regardless, the original contention was that either alliance being at the center of the controversy is irrelevant. I don't see anything that makes me change my mind.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Chalaskan

[AirMe]

Quite the contrary, I think C&G planned on many staying out of this. TOP has our friends though. I never said anyone was out to get us. Just our friends...everyone was well aware of the links from TPF to IRON, and have even baited them trying to make sure they enter.

The way things have played out makes certain things obvious, even to a bystander.

Yeah, and because IRON members haven't been running around the forums baiting anyone who doesn't agree with them. I don't think this was a C&G op. I think this was an Athens OP and you are falsely assuming this is a preplanned event. You also seem to be operating on the belief that it is ok for TOP to stand by their allies who may or may not be right and not for C&G alliances to stand by their allies who may or may not be right. That is a 2 way street.

The only thing a bystander could determine now is that we are all out of our minds and shouldn't be allied to anyone one on either side.