Treaty Partners of The Phoenix Federation

[Hiro Nakara]

They are in peace mode because they want to 85k plus nation to strike Rok/Athens and co friends, in a dashing move to smash there spirits. This has already been established. So if 85k plus nations from TPF's side are going into peacemode then you can see the sense.

Again don't be to harsh to call them all cowards, some actually wanted to go in days ago and had planned to do so. they truly have there hands tied/pupeteered by others.

[Haflinger]

The attack was organized within a single hour.

You mean, Zero Hour talked to Londo, and an hour later you were at war?

Please get real. Obviously it took a couple days; you've revealed that the CB - such as it was - was transmitted to Athens on Christmas Day, and attacks began on the 27th. That's two days, during which time nearly all TPF allied governments were enjoying the Christmas season.

[Bob]

You mean, Zero Hour talked to Londo, and an hour later you were at war?

Please get real. Obviously it took a couple days; you've revealed that the CB - such as it was - was transmitted to Athens on Christmas Day, and attacks began on the 27th. That's two days, during which time nearly all TPF allied governments were enjoying the Christmas season.

The attacks were planned in an hour, when it became obvious someone had leaked the plans to TPF and they were hitting peace mode. Attacks had been planned for the 28th, and this has been stated over and over again. Stop posting out your $@! and trying to call others out because you are unable to read what was posted.

Edit: Hiro, as always buddy you are true in your commitment even thought it may be to someone I don't approve of. Good luck mate.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[Bob Janova]

That's two days, during which time nearly all TPF allied governments were enjoying the Christmas season.

The attacks are at 0200 on the 27th (i.e. on the night of the 26th for most of the people who participated), so one and a half days, realistically. And nearly all governments on both sides would have been away, I'm not sure why you emphasise one side in particular.

[Bob]

The attacks are at 0200 on the 27th (i.e. on the night of the 26th for most of the people who participated), so one and a half days, realistically. And nearly all governments on both sides would have been away, I'm not sure why you emphasise one side in particular.

Bob Janova, I think the reasoning behind that is perfectly clear.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[Haflinger]

The attacks are at 0200 on the 27th (i.e. on the night of the 26th for most of the people who participated), so one and a half days, realistically. And nearly all governments on both sides would have been away, I'm not sure why you emphasise one side in particular.

It's a lot easier to organize a surprise attack than it is to respond to one; all you need are a few people on to distribute target lists. Especially when you have a massive statistical superiority to play with.

Having participated in the Illuminati War, I know this from experience.

[Alterego]

Of course TPF's allies aren't up in arms about this. They're too busy dishonouring themselves by fleeing to hippy mode. Why would they want to bring attention to that?

And people call us "Optional"...

They call you optional because your alliance has been a running joke for a long time. By running joke I mean you cant run away fast enough. You think peace mode is a place for us to hide? BAPS have been in peace mode as an alliance three times. During the BAPSwar when they came out and fought pretty much half of CN for a couple of months mostly alone. During the Karma war when they came out and fought amongst others TOP, LoSS and Nemesis. This is number 3, what do you think that tells you tough guy? It tells you that we only enter and leave peace mode for one reason...

ALSO 21.7% OF YOUR ALLIANCE IS IN PEACE.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Alterego

[Hiro Nakara]

The attacks were planned in an hour, when it became obvious someone had leaked the plans to TPF and they were hitting peace mode. Attacks had been planned for the 28th, and this has been stated over and over again. Stop posting out your $@! and trying to call others out because you are unable to read what was posted.

Edit: Hiro, as always buddy you are true in your commitment even thought it may be to someone I don't approve of. Good luck mate.

Thanks bob, wishing you then best for 2010 <3

[Burning Glory]

5 Days, sorry but I left TSI Gov because you guys are incompetent, 5 whole days the first 3 days all I seen was bickering on who was trying to organize then another day of it's IRON whose leading the charge now, it's a day of the organizing of LM, now it's into day 6 and still no help for allies that really should have been helped long before now, you wonder why ppl are calling you spineless? Really do you not think there justified to say that, when all you have shown is floppy behavior. Now the master genius idea of sending everyone into peacemode, hows that working now that the actual main aggressors are in peacemode now? Cracking strategy. it's not about who can help TPF, you know this, it's about who will be next and TOP is joining not for love of TPF it's purely because they will be next on the chopping block There so many alliances joining V Athens/RoK because of grudges personal and alliance wide it's unreal, don't dispute that, I have all the irc logs and #Grudges logs that prove you guys suck and its not about helping TPF, it's all about helping your own satisfaction. So don't sit here and say your doing this for anything else but your own agendas.

Regarding people calling TPFs allies cowards and no spines, I would know that too, because clearly your making an observation on lack of DoW's, I know for sure TSI was ready literally the day after Rok/Athens attacked and so were many others, they have been disallowed to Attack Athens or Rok right from the start, because of piss poor mainframe, coalition organizing. So if anything blame the people that are organizing this terrible effort at suiting there own agendas. If I had my way TSI would have rolled onto Athens the day later and so would have a couple others on RoK. but alas the brains behind the "lets all go into peace mode then make all our enemies go into peacemode strategy" brain children would simple not allow it. Many of TPFs allies have been ready for days itching waiting to jump on Athens/Rok but are being held back by the likes of TOP (no surprises) and IRON (no surprises) and the rest of the coalition of "lets wait till our allies are that smashed it makes no difference helping them military" genius mastermind planners. I like TPF every person I spoke to was nice respectful and showed great friendliness, if thats different in personal chats with them for other people you may want to rethink your own inwards self. I found them pleasant.

Few things thats obvious why they don't attack.

They want citadel fighting for them they know without them they are screwed.

They do not want to involve NpO, they know if this happens then NpO's treaty chain will most certainly make it hard for them.

they know if one of these factors is wrong they will simply get beat, if they manage to pull both factors off then Rok/Athens and the rest of us get beat. It certainly does not deflect away from the plain and simple fact of 6 Days no helping your allied treaty partners is a complete joke. It felt embarrassing being in TSI at that point, not because of the people, they are great bunch of people, but purely because ppl are acting like spineless rubber backed Cowards. It does not sit well with me in the slightest.

Que the yea rush in and die troll arguments. Can shoot that down right away, with the simple fact 3 days could be acceptable, as time to set up defense ,but 6 days and still no wars LOL sthu with that argument already

Edited for spelling.

Speaking on my own accord, I really don't know whats going on but The whole WAR is BS.....I mean really, to attack an alliance that was at best 1/3 rd of What they were pre-karma

with 500 plus nations spanning over 5 or 6 AA's because of SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED MONTHS AGO while TPF was at war against Athens and 6 or 7 other AA's.

To boot, they hit with out any talks from TPF GOV to prove any of this BS was true, or even why.

Not saying this is true but For heavens sake, when you are at war- being beat down by many AA's with no peace or end to the war in sight....YOU MUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO!

I don't think any less would of happened from any alliance in CN under those conditions.

Regardless of whats going on, I understand TPF allies predicument....Its almost as bad as being attacked by 5 or 6 AA's yourself.

And the last thing you want to do is be the only one jumping in to feed the sharks.

I've been in TPF since day one of me playing CN, this was since late spring, early summer of 07. I've stayed in TPF because I've found them to be an honorable, respectful and committed

alliance. The people are very friendly and helpful, but thats not to say that we don't have a bad apple or 2 or that I agree with all of the decisions made by TPF GOV.

What I do know is that any actions done by TPF gov is keeping the best interest of TPF members at the top of priorities with our allies as a close second.

Also you can't please everyone, people are going to be judgmental, hypocritical, and biased based on what best suits their interest and it doesn't matter how kind or how polite you are, they are going to dislike you or hate you and find a reason to justify those feelings with out regard to them being in that position or what they would do or how they would act.

I will say this, THIS IS CN things change, Shiat happens, and nothing is ever the same for very long...One day you just might find yourself in the very shoes you condemn.

BG.

[Dochartaigh]

Speaking on my own accord, I really don't know whats going on but The whole WAR is BS.....I mean really, to attack an alliance that was at best 1/3 rd of What they were pre-karma

with 500 plus nations spanning over 5 or 6 AA's because of SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED MONTHS AGO while TPF was at war against Athens and 6 or 7 other AA's.

To boot, they hit with out any talks from TPF GOV to prove any of this BS was true, or even why.

BG i love you man but seriously? just because TPF sux at rebuilding they should escape punishment?

also it is 4 total alliance hitting TPF, not 5-6.

also, TPF was never at war with Athens and thus that nullifies that point.

i don't get why ya'll seem to think that Athens was the only one who should have conducted diplomacy. TPF concocted a plan to destroy Athens as an alliance and never once tried to talk to Athens. after the war ended, TPF never once went to Athens and discussed that plot. so why, oh why, is it only Athens getting &#33;@#&#036; on for not using diplomacy, when TPF never once used diplomacy for all of that 6 month period of time.

Not saying this is true but For heavens sake, when you are at war- being beat down by many AA's with no peace or end to the war in sight....YOU MUST DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO!

I don't think any less would of happened from any alliance in CN under those conditions.

wait so we have not even finished a single round of this war and people are already trying to spin it into an eternal war? unless you are talkin of the Karma war in which TPF had peace offered to them and chose to stay at war. TPF put themselves in that "eternal" war where they knew they would get peace whenever they chose to come to the table. so please, what desperate situation were they in exactly? oh that is right, one of their own making.

Regardless of whats going on, I understand TPF allies predicument....Its almost as bad as being attacked by 5 or 6 AA's yourself.

And the last thing you want to do is be the only one jumping in to feed the sharks.

so basically TPF's allies won't fight for TPF unless they know they can win. you are saying that they will abandon TPF since they may get outnumbered? awesome allies or is this just how TPF thinks of their allies?

I've been in TPF since day one of me playing CN, this was since late spring, early summer of 07. I've stayed in TPF because I've found them to be an honorable, respectful and committed

alliance. The people are very friendly and helpful, but thats not to say that we don't have a bad apple or 2 or that I agree with all of the decisions made by TPF GOV.

What I do know is that any actions done by TPF gov is keeping the best interest of TPF members at the top of priorities with our allies as a close second.

Also you can't please everyone, people are going to be judgmental, hypocritical, and biased based on what best suits their interest and it doesn't matter how kind or how polite you are, they are going to dislike you or hate you and find a reason to justify those feelings with out regard to them being in that position or what they would do or how they would act.

so honorable and respectful they concocted a plan to destroy a community? so honorable they came clean at the end of the Karma war and took their punishment for those actions? so honorable, they are trying to connect this to a peace treaty that Athens had nothing to do about since TPF never came clean about their actions in order for Athens to actually get involved in the peace talks?

yeah, such an honorable bunch there.... seriously poster boys of honor./sarcasm

I will say this, THIS IS CN things change, Shiat happens, and nothing is ever the same for very long...One day you just might find yourself in the very shoes you condemn.

BG.

well if i was ever in an alliance that did what TPF did, i would be lambasting that alliance on these forums and will most likely leave (after the war of course) and would avoid that alliance until i feel they have changed. unlike TPF and ya'll who seem to think it is alright for TPF to do what they attempted.

[Kellory]

Again I do not blame Shuru for this, because she was as fustrated and angry as I was, At not being allowed to go in and help her closest allies and tbh, I was utterly disgusted with not being able to do the job I was asked to do.

I dont disagree with you your sentiments here Hiro, but at the same time a question we had to ask was if we were here for our own honor or to satisfy our own desires, or if we were honestly here to help our allies.

I spoke to mHawk shortly after TPF was hit, and we had alerts going out shortly thereafter. We were prepared to hit everyone before turnover. But we waited because we were asked to do so. TPF has been kept apprised of the efforts from the beginning, and while I dont know if they were truly happy with it (I suspect not) they also agreed with that. As such I believe we had an obligation to honor their wishes, and to work within the strategic framework.

When we offered help to TPF we did not do so with conditions attached. We did not tell them that we would be doing X or Y and that was final. We asked them what we could do to help. Help, not to hinder. In the end, TPF's long range goals such as survival must be taken into account even beyond our own wishes. When this started, we expected nothing more than a chance to die with TPF. Not because we wanted to, but because there was nothing else to be done. TPF has been there with us for the last 18 months, if they were going down the least we could do is be there with them on the way. We'd pick up our pieces and move on afterwards. But we intend to be there with them in this.

Later, things changed in terms of the overall strategic picture. Yes, Shuru had to actually tell me to stand down because by day 2 I was ready to go in alone. But while it was obvious she didnt like standing down, she also understood the larger picture here. That is was not just about us, but about TPF and everyone else. As long as TPF was okay with it, I will honor their wishes. And after that, I had to explain our new position to our other officers and our members. If you think your job sucked, imagine how it was for Shuru and I.

Now, things are looking different than they did 6 days ago. Hopefully TPF will even manage to pull through this. I hope so, I really do. And while I do not know what waiting 6 days to finally help will have done to TPF's long term morale and survival, if it gives them even a slightly better chance at a better tomorrow then my being called a coward is worth it.

Ultimately others can call us cowards if they desire. But it is not our own honor that we look to in this. It is the long term survival of an ally that we are looking to. If it means sacrificing our honor to do so, then so be it. If we are ready to sacrifice our very nations and even our own alliance in their cause, then what is honor? Yet something else to be sacrificed in the end. It is, in my mind, a greater cost than even our alliance, but if that is what is called for then so be it. I give no limits to what I will sacrifice for an ally.

I would have wanted to engage on day 1. But if waiting has helped, then I have done part of my duty even if it means being called names. So be it. We are here to support TPF, not to do whatever we want to. As long as what we did supports TPF, then I can handle the rest.

[Burning Glory]

BG i love you man but seriously? just because TPF sux at rebuilding they should escape punishment?

also it is 4 total alliance hitting TPF, not 5-6.

also, TPF was never at war with Athens and thus that nullifies that point.

i don't get why ya'll seem to think that Athens was the only one who should have conducted diplomacy. TPF concocted a plan to destroy Athens as an alliance and never once tried to talk to Athens. after the war ended, TPF never once went to Athens and discussed that plot. so why, oh why, is it only Athens getting &#33;@#&#036; on for not using diplomacy, when TPF never once used diplomacy for all of that 6 month period of time.

wait so we have not even finished a single round of this war and people are already trying to spin it into an eternal war? unless you are talkin of the Karma war in which TPF had peace offered to them and chose to stay at war. TPF put themselves in that "eternal" war where they knew they would get peace whenever they chose to come to the table. so please, what desperate situation were they in exactly? oh that is right, one of their own making.

so basically TPF's allies won't fight for TPF unless they know they can win. you are saying that they will abandon TPF since they may get outnumbered? awesome allies or is this just how TPF thinks of their allies?

so honorable and respectful they concocted a plan to destroy a community? so honorable they came clean at the end of the Karma war and took their punishment for those actions? so honorable, they are trying to connect this to a peace treaty that Athens had nothing to do about since TPF never came clean about their actions in order for Athens to actually get involved in the peace talks?

yeah, such an honorable bunch there.... seriously poster boys of honor./sarcasm

well if i was ever in an alliance that did what TPF did, i would be lambasting that alliance on these forums and will most likely leave (after the war of course) and would avoid that alliance until i feel they have changed. unlike TPF and ya'll who seem to think it is alright for TPF to do what they attempted.

Yeah I feel the love

But seriously, punishment? We didn't deserve punishment, what happened happend months ago and as i said planned while we were at war. TPF didn't OWE ATHENS any talks while what we did was planned in war time, you don't go to the enemy and ask if its ok or talk about your plans before you do it. Besides that ATHENS acted on words that they didn't know was true or not, so yes they owed us that much...and as it turns out only part of it is true!

TPF honored our treaty in the KARMA war, We were offerd peace at/towards the end of the war but with BS terms, but i guess you would have taken them just to end the fighting with your AA while your allies were still be rolled? Well we didn't and we never will, so no we couldn't of ended it at anytime...you just have no clue what actually went on.

And yes we are being attacked by 5 or 6 AA's; RAGNAROK, \m/, Athens, GOD, may be the main ones but we have all of the others trying to pick us clean UPN, IFOK, NNK, TOoJ, AI.

Not as if just ATHENS and RAGNARK wouldn't be enough, but they made sure we had no chance by bringing in the others.

Let me guess it ok though because its not your AA, or your friends? Thats right the EVIL TPF deserves punishment.

For the record, in the karma war, TPF did have athens nations attacking us. IT MAY HAVE NOT BEEN A FULL ATTACK, but they piled on us just like all the others.

So yeah, you keep your opinion your intilted to it. I don't agree with it, nor would i if it was a different AA but i'll respect it....however when the time comes that you have to wear our shoes I hope you remember how good it felt to throw stones from accross the street

One more thing, the very thing you think TPF deserves punishment for, ATHENS plan was just posted on OWF by OBM and they were not even at war with them, nor did they have a treaty in any way.

They simply tried to coup the leader and split up the AA just so they could reap the tech from them.

I know you can find a way to justify that or twist it around, spin it what ever and thats cool, I expect nothing less from the ATHENS followers.

BG.

EDIT* Kellroy You guys have my highest respect, it matters not how some people of CN see you, only who matters

Edited January 2, 2010 by Burning Glory

[Ludacrism2]

MDoAP partners being treated like this over an ancient CB???? I would have rolled immediately.

I'm not supporting either side but the CB may be ancient but I doubt anyone here would not want to attack if they found out that another alliance was trying to destroy them like that. A bit rushed maybe but not unjustified.

Just food for thought.