An Asian and Oceania Summit-Conference - Bangkok

[Lavo]

OOC: Use the GDR's Mark.

Then everyone's happy. Especially me.

*scurries away*

OOC: No. /me kicks Lynneth out of this thread D:<

[king of cochin]

Listening the discussions about the international currency, Vikram thought, "Yet another attempt to impose the Hanseatic Mark on other nations. Dont they see that such attempts only malign the name of the old Hanseatic Commonwealth?"

[Amyante]

"The Hanseatic Mark comes to mind, though given its history as an international currency it is understandable to think of it in this context. Still, we feel the idea of adopting a second currency next to our national one would make trading unnecessarily complicated as it would add another monetary layer. National to international to foreign sounds more complicated than exchanging national to foreign currency directly, and any trader worth their salt would be aware of the exchange rates anyway."

Edited December 28, 2009 by Amyante

[Thomas Grimshaw]

OOC: Not to to be insolent, but if you'll notice, KoC said "Vikram thought". Not said, so that whole post assumes mind-reading.

[Amyante]

OOC: True, edited. Zargathia (well... most of it) is former Hanseatic protectorate btw, so that's why i'm bringing it up independently from Cochin this time

Edited December 28, 2009 by Amyante

[Sarah Tintagyl]

"Excellencies." Hannah sighed taking her head out of her hands, after seeing through the conference for about four hours or more. She had lost track of time, hearing that her SWORD Commander had nearly been assassinated, and so forth, the continued bickering from the representatives in Bangkok had driven her to her last nerve. "I really believe you are all making this much too complicated. Personally, I have my individual doubts of this Unity Treaty even holding out, point one being is that there is always that chance that one of us sitting here will grow discontent with their current situation and begin pressuring their neighbors for various deals, expansions, and so on. We have been sitting her for god knows long and I see two things. Queen Ava and your entourage, you are making far too many developments for a treaty between peoples who do not all have a strong history together, some don't even like each other. While I can assure you, Rebel Army and Vaule, given their current political power will continue to maintain their power and influence on either this continent or multiple continents no matter what this treaty says."

"My final proposal is this. This treaty be simplified to reflect the idea of not a united Asia immediately, but a burgeoning Asia, coming together in unity, friendship, and discussion. The talks here are helpful, but these talks should occur as events happen. Not all at once. In simplistic terms, we approve that no nation to interfere on a neighbors sovereignty. Sovereignty defined as: supreme power over all their affairs, therefore, their military, their economy, and their people, and no foreign nation should ever interfere in this. In light of that definition of sovereignty, to further friendship between our peoples and in the advancement of unity, our Asian nations should have no reason to attack each other, if the friendship is true and the saying goes, what's yours is mine and what's mine is yours, Asia can combine its strength when needed. Look at Australia's relationship with Pacifica, we have islands intertwined, territory intertwined and yet we get along just fine, that should be the aspiration. To continue, to further and reflect Asia's power in the world, and I mean, Asia, again, Australia will not under any circumstances agree by treaty to defend Cochin territories in Africa, Rebel Army territories in America, and so on, by our definition these are colonies. Are we angry? No, of course not, every country deserves to have territory and if the people of Bossao and Ecuador wish to be apart of these people, that is their choice. Their sovereign choice. Australia will pick and choice on a case by case basis to defend outside of the Asian sphere or continuous countries on the Asian continent. Therefore, yes, if Egypt would be attacked, we would come to the RA's aid. Sound strange to you people? Welcome to politics, it is continuous territory and therefore logical."

"As to this debate on economics, an international currency will never be agreed on and the Hanseatic Mark is dead." She turned to the Cochin representative, who's eyes and face seemed to be lost in thought. "And maybe if you're in such deep thought maybe you'd like to share with the rest of us. You're hear to waste your breath after all." She sighed and turned back to the crowd. "A simple treaty on reduction of tariffs between Asian countries is enough. If, in the future, a unanimous decision comes to use a single currency or an international currency then it is only down with consent of our new Asian family."

She turned around her to one of the Lillians standing on guard behind her. "Brianna. You have a piece of paper and a pen?"

"Um..." The Lillian reached into her coat and felt around finally bringing out a crinkled piece of paper and a bic pen. "Will this do?"

"Perfect." Hannah took them off of her and turned back to the Asian representatives. "Since I know that you all need to see this on paper to agree with anything:" She began to scribble.

The Treaty of Bangkok

Article I: Preamble

In the interest of unifying the Asian and Oceanic continents through friendship, but not to create a hegemonic bloc that will extend its control to any other continents, Asian and Oceanic representatives have come together to create a suitable working treaty to provide mutual friendship to each other, respect for their neighbor's sovereignty, mutual defense and respect in economic trade.

Article II: Sovereignty

Sovereignty is defined as a nations supreme power over all their affairs, therefore, their military, their economy, and their people, and no neighbor of Oceania or of Asia will be allowed to interfere with this right.

Article III: Non Aggression

As we are coming together as two continents in friendship, the idea of being able to attack our neighbors goes against all principles of this treaty and therefore, all Asian and Oceanic nations swear that they will not commit any acts of outward aggression toward their neighbors as open territorial expansion through military might. In addition to covert aggression in the case of espionage and puppeteering as was done with the Dragon Empire. We are a family, we should learn to act like one.

Article IV: Mutual Defense

Coming together in friendship also means the ability to defend your friend. As two continents united in friendship, any act of aggression on Oceania or Asia by either an Asian or Oceanic power or a completely foreign power will be dealt with all possible retaliation from this alliance. However, as this is a treaty of unity for Asia and Oceania, non-continuous territories. (Ecuador, as an example) Will not be required defense, does this mean that Asian and Oceanic countries cannot aid the Rebel Army in Ecuador? No, it just means it is not covering in this treaty. Only continuous territory in Asia and Oceania apply.

Article V: Trade Rights

As a family, we should desire to help each other out economically as well. We have the benefit of having some of the strongest powers in the world on these continents as well as hopeful advancing nations and in light of that, should want to create a fair playing field for all economic growth. This being said, a reduction of tariffs should take place to lessen the burden of inter-Asian/Oceanic trade, strengthening our economic and political ties with one another and bringing the continents closer together through trading of resources. In addition making competition stronger and in our favor between our continents and the other continents of the world.

Article VI: Expulsion and Exiting

Family takes time and may not always be agreed by all parties. As such, all countries have the ability and the right to leave this treaty after a seventy two hour notice(RL), to all members of this treaty. As to Expulsion, any nation that breaks one of the previous article will be expelled indefinitely after notice and evidence of article breaking.

"Can you people live with this or is there more pointless arguing over a defunct currency?"

[Lavo]

"Can you people live with this or is there more pointless arguing over a defunct currency?"

"Has anyone told you that your a voice of reason yet? As you damned sure are, being able to stop all of this bickering. Rebel Army supports this write-up and would be more than happy to sign it."

[king of cochin]

The Kingdom of Cochin would sign this.

[iamthey]

This treaty is suitable to us. We await the responses of others. And to be clear, we will not be accepting any unified oceanic, or asian currency. Our respective economies are simply too diverse, the regulator of the currency would have problems properly adjusting monetary policy.

Edited December 28, 2009 by iamthey

[Sarah Tintagyl]

This treaty is suitable to us. We await the responses of others. And to be clear, we will not be accepting any unified oceanic, or asian currency. Our respective economies are simply too diverse, the regulator of the currency would have problems properly adjusting monetary policy.

"I think the last thing many of us want is a unified currency. I for one am completely against it and with this new write up, that is completely stricken from the idea. Relationships such as these should start off small and build up."

[Imperator Azenquor]

Lady Sharova scribbled several points down as she skimmed the draft proposal put forward by the Australian Representative.

“We have several concerns regarding the draft presented. While we do believe that the draft proposal is a significant step forward, we do have some key reservations.

Firstly, in Article II of the draft presented, it reads as follows:

‘Sovereignty is defined as a nations supreme power over all their affairs, therefore, their military, their economy, and their people, and no neighbor of Oceania or of Asia will be allowed to interfere with this right.’

While we agree to the necessity of defining Sovereignty vis a vis nations in the Asian and Oceanic regions, we request that the portion highlighted be clarified. Is it the intention that this would state that no neighboring state to Oceania or Asia would be allowed to violate the sovereignty of an Asian or Oceanic nation? Or is this intended to state that no neighboring state to Oceania or Asia will be allowed to violate the sovereignty of an Asian nation who is a signatory to this agreement? We feel that this clarification is significant and needs to be reflected in the text of the treaty.

Secondly, regarding Article III which reads as follows:

‘As we are coming together as two continents in friendship, the idea of being able to attack our neighbors goes against all principles of this treaty and therefore, all Asian and Oceanic nations swear that they will not commit any acts of outward aggression toward their neighbors as open territorial expansion through military might…’

Again, non Aggression is vital to the proposed treaty, but again the text may need to be clarified, or perhaps even amended. The text requires all Asian and Oceanic nations to swear not to commit such acts of aggression such as ‘open territorial expansion through military might’ , and deals with covert acts of aggression. Again we request that the text be modified to specify explicitly that members of the pact, rather than all regional nations, should not commit any acts of aggression against each other such as open territorial expansion into lands that form a part of a sovereign member nation. This is an important distinction that should be made. As all Asian and Oceanic nations will not be signing this agreement, the agreement needs to reflect the difference between a non-signatory and a signatory unless it is the intention that this pact be slammed down the throats of all Asian and Oceanic nations (the very definition in fact of a political hegemony). We are certain that this is not the case, but still insist upon the clarification.

Thirdly, we examine Article IV of the treaty regarding mutual defense. This article specifies that non-contiguous territory such as our province of Novaya Zemlya (which happens to be situated in Europe) are exempt from the defense clause. By a direct examination of the text, it also implies that non-contiguous territory in Asia and Oceania itself are not covered. Regarding Novaya Zemlya, it is not a colony, it is not an outpost, it is not a territory. It is, and has always been a fundamental and integral part of the Vauleo-Buryatian state. We did not conquer it, and those there are our citizens and ethnic kin. This would mean that, God forbid our territory is invaded through Novaya Zemlya and we are rendered unable to defend the territory, then (despite a treaty) there would be no binding obligation to assist until the forces of the aggressor set foot on the mainland. The text in question equates non contiguous provinces, and areas where the presence of an Asian/Oceanic nation is at the behest of the people there, with colonies and colonialism.

This is something that we do not agree with. If it is the position of the pact that non-contiguous territories are not covered by the mutual defense portion of the pact, then we will opt out of signing that Article.

Fourthly, regarding the economic aspects of the treaty, we agree with the decision to simply move towards a reduction of tariffs to favor Asian and Oceanic nations in the hopes of fostering greater economic cooperation. Despite our agreement to reduce tariffs we will still maintain our existing import quota restrictions that favors our local producers rather than foreign ones, and limits the amounts and nature of products that can be imported. As long as it is not the intention to mandate ‘free and open competition’ between economies via mandating changes, then we can agree upon this clause.

This is a brief outline of some of the concerns that we in the Vauleyo-Buryatian delegation have at this juncture. Upon the resolution, in part or in whole, of our reservations by the others present, and at the point in which this resolution is reflected in the text of a second draft document, and pending the agreement upon the final version of said document by the other nations represented here, then we would be prepared to, after consultations with our Parliament and an analysis of the economic impact of the treaty on our existing economic situation, add our signature to the agreement.”-Lady Sharova

Edited December 28, 2009 by Imperator Azenquor

[thenb]

The New Chinese Empire also has a concern, with the last article

Article VI: Expulsion and Exiting

Family takes time and may not always be agreed by all parties. As such, all countries have the ability and the right to leave this treaty after a seventy two hour notice(RL), to all members of this treaty. As to Expulsion, any nation that breaks one of the previous article will be expelled indefinitely after notice and evidence of article breaking.

as it makes for no clear way to determine who is expelled. We suggest the following revision.

Article VI: Expulsion and Exiting

Family takes time and may not always be agreed by all parties. As such, all countries have the ability and the right to leave this treaty after a seventy two hour notice(RL), to all members of this treaty. As to Expulsion, any nation that breaks one of the previous article will be expelled indefinitely after notice and evidence of article breaking, and with the approval of at least 2/3 of all signatory nations.

[Thomas Grimshaw]

"This treaty is more than acceptable to USET, and I personally and glad someone here was not as myopic. I would be more than willing to put my signature on that document."

[Ray Matveyev]

Esteemed delegates of this convention,

As a new nation, the Pacifican Republic looks out for allies and new partnerships. In return we hope to see wealth, peace, and prosperity from cooperation with other nations in the world. An investment in the Republic is an investment in our development, and will pay off dearly. I aim to assist the people of the world and become a nation of global cooperation and an administration promoting the best ideals for the world.

It is my humble request that delegates from the Democratic Republic of the Pacific attend this convention, and my interject on current proceedings as to serve for the interests of the people of this small Asian nation.

Thank you,

Ray Matveyev

President of the Democratic Republic of the Pacific

[iKrolm]

Selenarctos is willing to sign with the exception of Article IV. While there is no problem with the article per se, we do not wish to enter an MDP at this time.

Edited December 28, 2009 by iKrolm

[thenb]

The NCE would like to invite Democratic Republic of the Pacific to the conference. We will escort their delegation in.

[Ray Matveyev]

Anton Mikhail, Minister for Pacifican Foreign Affairs for the Democratic Republic of the Pacific, arrives in Singapore at the delegation to represent the interests of the Pacifican state. His Chinese escorts are gracious in introducing themselves and the other representatives present at the convention. After being caught up to speed on the current affairs of this meeting, Minister Mikhail gives his opinion on the currently proposed agreement:

"If at all possible, couldn't the fourth article of this treaty be an optional agreement? From what I can see here is a will of these nations to be united and work together for a better future. While some may not want to commit any military forces, others might find the resources or the necessity to do so. I propose that the treaty be put into two parts: a tactical agreement and a economic agreement. Those wishing to commit military promises may do so, while others who wish to be within the agreement from an economic standpoint may still be able to."

Edited December 28, 2009 by Ray Matveyev

[thenb]

"The DRP is absolutely correct, and I believe this was mentioned before. We should have a 2 level block, one with all of the articles present, and the other with OPTIONAL defense only. Those who sign only for the ODP section would have the option to defend other nations, but other signatories would not be required to come to their defense."

[Subtleknifewielder]

Thirdly, we examine Article IV of the treaty regarding mutual defense. This article specifies that non-contiguous territory such as our province of Novaya Zemlya (which happens to be situated in Europe) are exempt from the defense clause. By a direct examination of the text, it also implies that non-contiguous territory in Asia and Oceania itself are not covered. Regarding Novaya Zemlya, it is not a colony, it is not an outpost, it is not a territory. It is, and has always been a fundamental and integral part of the Vauleo-Buryatian state. We did not conquer it, and those there are our citizens and ethnic kin. This would mean that, God forbid our territory is invaded through Novaya Zemlya and we are rendered unable to defend the territory, then (despite a treaty) there would be no binding obligation to assist until the forces of the aggressor set foot on the mainland. The text in question equates non contiguous provinces, and areas where the presence of an Asian/Oceanic nation is at the behest of the people there, with colonies and colonialism.

This is something that we do not agree with. If it is the position of the pact that non-contiguous territories are not covered by the mutual defense portion of the pact, then we will opt out of signing that Article.

Anthony considered the compromise concering the mutal defense article. That sounded a little like the old Pax Pacifica treaty, he had to admit. He had mixed feelings about that; it would allow more nations to feel free to sign the treaty, promoting continental unity. On the other hand, Optional Defense was always unpredictable. Though admittedly Promised Land had never had trouble with the one ODP it had ever signed, one treaty did not necessarily illustrate an entire rule. He decided to mull that over a bit before expressing any thoughts on the subject, Instead, he turned to one of the Vaulean concerns.

"Since islands are often not considered part of any continent, no matter their proximity, and Australia herself has Island posessions, perhaps it could be clarified that such possessions are included in the MDP article, provided they are not an unreasonable distance from the regions this conference concerns."

Edited December 29, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[Acca Dacca]

We approve of this draft of the treaty provided by Hannah

Democratic Republic of the Pacific is more than allowed to sit at this table.

As for those who do not wish to enter under the MDP part, can we have an article for optional defense?

[Ray Matveyev]

"I object to an optional defense clause. You either defend your comrades, or you do not, and to put option of not defending your neighbors allows for the dissolution of unity. Those ready to commit their armed forces to service and helping those in this treaty should expect that clause to be enacted immediately and automatically - no deliberation on whether or not they should enter the war - a commitment was made and should be honored.

However I believe it is the goal of this union that we won't even need a defense clause to ensure that in good nature, we'll come to our neighbors' defense if they are attacked. This leaves though, the question of what happens to those who do commit to mutual defense. Well, to ensure that it is fair, nations that ratify the fourth article of this treaty shall only defend other nations who have also ratified the fourth article. But, as I said, it is the goal that we won't need a legal document to force those to do the goodwill gesture of defending friends."

[Acca Dacca]

"I object to an optional defense clause. You either defend your comrades, or you do not, and to put option of not defending your neighbors allows for the dissolution of unity. Those ready to commit their armed forces to service and helping those in this treaty should expect that clause to be enacted immediately and automatically - no deliberation on whether or not they should enter the war - a commitment was made and should be honored.

However I believe it is the goal of this union that we won't even need a defense clause to ensure that in good nature, we'll come to our neighbors' defense if they are attacked. This leaves though, the question of what happens to those who do commit to mutual defense. Well, to ensure that it is fair, nations that ratify the fourth article of this treaty shall only defend other nations who have also ratified the fourth article. But, as I said, it is the goal that we won't need a legal document to force those to do the goodwill gesture of defending friends."

Ava nodded her head, and was only able to say just about one word. "Word."

[Elrich von Richt]

Haruhi spoke up after an oddly long silence.

"I believe it is a potentially good option to allow for two categories of member, partial and full signatories. Full signatories agree to all articles within, while the partial signatory would only partially agree to the bloc treaty. For example, if a nation does not wish to adhere to the mutual defense they can be considered a partial signatory and thus have only the 'option' of defense."

[Ray Matveyev]

Anton Mikhail responds Haruhi's statement:

"I think it's inappropriate to label nations of this bloc as 'partially' committed and 'fully' committed. All nations are committed to this bloc, Haruhi, we are all here in the spirit of unity of the Asian continent. It's more appropriate to have there a nations who commit militarily and nations who commit economically. Two treaties can be written, both under the umbrella of Asian unity"

[Imperator Azenquor]

"Should the Mutual Defense Clause be reworded to include non-contiguous territory, such as Novaya Zemlya, and be worded to focus entirely upon the defense of member states, then we will be willing to withdraw our reservations regarding that article."-Lady Sharova