DogeWilliam Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 This whole thing is rather confusing as it is so hard to know what the truth is.There was no motivation for Athens and FoB to declare war on KoN, no motivation whatsoever and thus calling it a war and not a tech raid is wrong. Or did Athens and FoB do it to isolate MASH? See my point? I'd hate to keep bringing up finished business but you are making my case a lot easier with statement like that. If there was no motivations then what you did was even more uncalled for. If you paint a chicken blue and call it a fish, that doesn't make it a fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperonic Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 He nuked the guy before he said he was quitting, multiple times. For all we know penkala's dastardly behavior has provoked the desire to quit! Yeah, he must have had real interest running his nation unaligned. That would have been real fun. How dare Penkala ruin that guy's plans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Don't spin this into a morality debate, especially when morality is flexible and not standard across CN.Morality is an accepted thing and just because YOUR morals are different from mine, doesn't mean you get to define what is right and wrong about this situation. Especially when its a unaligned nation. unaligned nation. unaligned nation. And, the person running the nation was planning on abandoning it. Why in the world do you care about that guy's nation more than he does? I'm from the Moralist Front, for Admin's sake. You asked for a morality debate, you've got one. The only flexible morality displayed here is Penkala's. He seems to believe that there's some fundamental difference between destroying one nation for kicks and destroying an alliance for kicks. Here's the thing: there isn't, and you haven't provided a counter-argument other than "he's unaligned, he has no rights!" Guess what, bucko? Some people don't fall for that nonsense. There's no difference between attacking an unprotected nation and an unprotected alliance. Care to try again? Edited November 19, 2009 by Vilien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperonic Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I'm from the Moralist Front, for Admin's sake. You asked for a morality debate, you've got one. The only flexible morality displayed here is Penkala's. He seems to believe that there's some fundamental difference between destroying one nation for kicks and destroying an alliance for kicks. Here's the thing: there isn't, and you haven't provided a counter-argument other than "he's unaligned, he has no rights!" Guess what, bucko? Some people don't fall for that nonsense. There's no difference between attacking an unprotected nation and an unprotected alliance. Care to try again? Right now, you are the only person talking about morality. I don't care if you come from the alliance of funions and you think you know everything about funions. Look at you, funion authority; everyone else is going for the hypocrite approach and you run in to tell us to think of the children. And, it doesn't matter what you think because you aren't going to do anything about this anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Right now, you are the only person talking about morality. I don't care if you come from the alliance of funions and you think you know everything about funions. You just asked me to compare alliance raids vs. nation raids, I complied with your request. I'm sorry for defeating you so soundly. Look at you, funion authority; everyone else is going for the hypocrite approach and you run in to tell us to think of the children. Yes, think of the children. Think of other people. Think of something else besides yourself for once. And, it doesn't matter what you think because you aren't going to do anything about this anyway! Do something about it? Haven't we gotten tired of this one yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balougahfitz Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Are you kidding me? The guy he nuked was QUITTING?And, you all guys are angry about this? Why? Yes.He nuked the guy before he said he was quitting, multiple times. For all we know penkala's dastardly behavior has provoked the desire to quit!No.Why in the world do you care about that guy's nation more than he does?Yes. Edited November 19, 2009 by Balougahfitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Stalin Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Yeah, he must have had real interest running his nation unaligned. That would have been real fun.How dare Penkala ruin that guy's plans Oh sorry, I didn't realize you have to be in an alliance to enjoy this game. If only more unaligneds knew about this, then they'd all be having so much more fun. Just quit while you're ahead please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The General Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Thread title: 10/10 Penkalas actions 10/10 Community response: 10/10 *The General pops a boner* Edited November 19, 2009 by The General Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperonic Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 You just asked me to compare alliance raids vs. nation raids, I complied with your request. I'm sorry for defeating you so soundly.Yes, think of the children. Think of other people. Think of something else besides yourself for once. Do something about it? Haven't we gotten tired of this one yet? Heh heh heh. "I'm sorry for defeating you so soundly" You've done that twice already towards me. Maybe even a third time. It makes you and your argument look weak. If you spent more time thinking logically instead of assuring yourself that you are "defeating me soundly" you'd have realize that your moral high ground is not getting anything done. Good luck with that, though. I honestly can't be bothered to waste my time arguing clouded thinking, but I guess I'll try to discipher your next intelligent retort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperonic Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Yes.No. Yes. Okay you guys. Keep hopping up and down on Penkala's business while the whole reason you are doing so walks out the door nonchalantly. Beautiful you guys base your moral high ground on absolutely nothing by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Stalin Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Beautiful you guys base your moral high ground on absolutely nothing by the way. Same could be said of Penkala, bro. In fact thats the whole reason this thread is here, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperonic Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) I'd say the topic is more about Penkala's blood than actually debating his stance on something. You'll pretend otherwise, though. How moral is it to use horrible incidents as a political weapon, by the way, guys? Edited November 19, 2009 by Hyperonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Heh heh heh."I'm sorry for defeating you so soundly" You've done that twice already towards me. Maybe even a third time. It makes you and your argument look weak. If you spent more time thinking logically instead of assuring yourself that you are "defeating me soundly" you'd have realize that your moral high ground is not getting anything done. Good luck with that, though. I honestly can't be bothered to waste my time arguing clouded thinking, but I guess I'll try to discipher your next intelligent retort. You've stated multiple times that you're just too good/too incapable to actually make an argument. That's not how you win a debate. I'd argue, again, that there's no real difference between raiding an unaligned nation and an unprotected alliance, but you still haven't addressed a single point that I've made. Please tell me you're not trying. How moral is it to use horrible incidents as a political weapon, by the way, guys? I do it all the time when I'm trying to prove a point. People tend to pay more attention to real situations than hypothetical abuses. Edited November 19, 2009 by Vilien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balougahfitz Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Okay you guys.Keep hopping up and down on Penkala's business while the whole reason you are doing so walks out the door nonchalantly. Beautiful you guys base your moral high ground on absolutely nothing by the way. I wouldn't say nonchalantly. Suave is much more accurate. I just want to make sure no one thinks I went and made threats against Penkala (I've proven that I haven't, by now.). But if I proved that it would just fuel the morality argument and then more discussions would start and yelling and threats and then somewhere in my dreams I will have started GW9001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Okay you guys.Keep hopping up and down on Penkala's business while the whole reason you are doing so walks out the door nonchalantly. Beautiful you guys base your moral high ground on absolutely nothing by the way. Maybe but did Penkala know the guy was quitting or that he didn;t care about his nation? If not then it doesn;t matter because for all he knew he was attacking someone who did care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trout Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperonic Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 You've stated multiple times that you're just too good/too incapable to actually make an argument. That's not how you win a debate. I'd argue, again, that there's no real difference between raiding an unaligned nation and an unprotected alliance, but you still haven't addressed a single point that I've made. Please tell me you're not trying.I do it all the time when I'm trying to prove a point. People tend to pay more attention to real situations than hypothetical abuses. Why do you insist on dragging me into a debate with morality? Is that the only ground you feel like you stand a chance on because you come from the moralityland? There is nothing we could possibly get done. I will repeat this for you one more time. We don't have the same morals. You are telling me my morals are wrong rather than explaining to me what a single nation has to do with an incident mentioned before. I don't care about unaligned nations, and you don't care that you use incidents like this as a poorly calibrated political weapon. I didn't even ask to debate with you about morals. You tell me how YOU feel about an incident rather than WHAT the incident had to do with an incident with an alliance and started rewarding yourself a gold star about how oh so good you are at debating morals. There are a lot of people who are going to disagree with you. Get used to it. Actually, scratch that. You must be used to it by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperonic Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Maybe but did Penkala know the guy was quitting or that he didn;t care about his nation? If not then it doesn;t matter because for all he knew he was attacking someone who did care. Realistically ---- If you care about your nation, you won't make it unaligned. And, people are going to come in and tell me I'm wrong because if we were moral, that just wouldn't happen normally! Edited November 19, 2009 by Hyperonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Why do you insist on dragging me into a debate with morality? Is that the only ground you feel like you stand a chance on because you come from the moralityland? There is nothing we could possibly get done. I will repeat this for you one more time.We don't have the same morals. You are telling me my morals are wrong rather than explaining to me what a single nation has to do with an incident mentioned before. I don't care about unaligned nations, and you don't care that you use incidents like this as a poorly calibrated political weapon. I didn't even ask to debate with you about morals. You tell me how YOU feel about an incident rather than WHAT the incident had to do with an incident with an alliance and started rewarding yourself a gold star about how oh so good you are at debating morals. There are a lot of people who are going to disagree with you. Get used to it. Actually, scratch that. You must be used to it by now. You seem to not understand the basic concepts and facts being argued here. I'll help you out. 1. Your man, Penkala, posts a thread criticizing Athens for launching a tech raid against an alliance. That thread pans out into a !@#$storm that results in Athens being threatened with destruction and having its hide dragged all over the OWF. 2. Your man, Penkala, launches a tech raid against an unaligned nation, which is later revealed by Unavailable Contact. 3. You come in here shouting in disbelief at how anyone could possibly consider Penkala to be a hypocrite. 4. I then argue, point by point, why there is no difference between Penkala's actions and Athens' actions, supporting my argument that Penkala is a hypocrite. You don't care about unaligned nations. Fantastic. Turns out I don't care about any alliances at all. None of you have the right to freedom from being attacked without provocation. What's the difference, again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Realistically ----If you care about your nation, you won't make it unaligned. Join an alliance or be smashed! im pro tech raiding but that was kind of a dumb statement...not everybody wants to be in an alliance. That was, and i cringe to admit this, the one pro to Moldavi's doctrine to protect unaligneds unfortunatly that got out of hand and well thats another discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Stalin Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Realistically ----If you care about your nation, you won't make it unaligned. To be fair, not everyone is an infra hugger who feels they need to hide behind an alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChimpMasterFlash Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) "morality doesn't exist; much like this sentence." -God Edited November 19, 2009 by ChimpMasterFlash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperonic Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I have some problems with your last post. Especially 3. You come in here shouting in disbelief at how anyone could possibly consider Penkala to be a hypocrite. Hahahahaha... Okay. 4. I then argue, point by point, why there is no difference between Penkala's actions and Athens' actions, supporting my argument that Penkala is a hypocrite. You argued with a lot of opinions and a lot of odd comparisons that I didn't agree with and you are shocked that I'm not buying what you are selling. Not a single fact at all, really. You don't care about unaligned nations. Fantastic. Turns out I don't care about any alliances at all. None of you have the right to freedom from being attacked without provocation. What's the difference, again? One is an alliance, and the other is a nation. Duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dujek Onearm Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Man.... The guy couldn't wait a few days to show his real face. This is what I call hypocrisy. Where are the world police and the Moralist Crusaders now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Beck Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 You seem to not understand the basic concepts and facts being argued here. I'll help you out.1. Your man, Penkala, posts a thread criticizing Athens for launching a tech raid against an alliance. That thread pans out into a !@#$storm that results in Athens being threatened with destruction and having its hide dragged all over the OWF. 2. Your man, Penkala, launches a tech raid against an unaligned nation, which is later revealed by Unavailable Contact. 3. You come in here shouting in disbelief at how anyone could possibly consider Penkala to be a hypocrite. 4. I then argue, point by point, why there is no difference between Penkala's actions and Athens' actions, supporting my argument that Penkala is a hypocrite. You don't care about unaligned nations. Fantastic. Turns out I don't care about any alliances at all. None of you have the right to freedom from being attacked without provocation. What's the difference, again? In a way KoN was an unaligned alliance as in they had no treaties. Just an observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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