Zhadum reveals NPO information: organized logs

[Branimir]

He mentions him by name, Branimir.

You mean Usurkar?

You for real, Usurkar is a spy lol?

As you might know, he was a member of your alliance and also probably holds some kind of a mask there. All the posts he pointed IOs too, could have been from general membership areas from the time he was a member, or just from areas he can view now as a non member of monologues of your Emperor he likes to make even here.

You would also note that Zha did said that NPO does not actively spy as far as he knows. Obviously, if at one moment he says that, he doesn't consider Usurkar or what he done as being a spy or spying.

But hey, as said, you can always prove Zha right here ya know

Edited September 28, 2009 by Branimir

[Proko]

You mean Usurkar?

You for real, Usurkar is a spy lol?

As you might know, he was a member of your alliance and also probably holds some kind of a mask there. All the posts he pointed IOs too, could have been from general membership areas from the time he was a member, or just from areas he can view now as a non member.

You would also note that Zha did said that NPO does not actively spy as far as he knows. Obviously, if at one moment he says that, he doesnt consider Uusrkar or what he done as being a spy.

But hey, as said, you can always prove Zha right here.

He was lying when he declared NPO does not actively spy. In fact, we know NPO has spied on us on the past. Remember Griswalds? We sure do.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Proko

[WarriorConcept]

I read the logs completely and wasn't surprised about most of the things Zha'dum had said to the others in the channel. My point is, we haven't learned anything we didn't know before. And if you couldn't predict a power struggle coming sooner or later after the Karma war, you should have. Moo has been at the top of NPO for god knows how long and it's only reasonable for the body and his own IO's to defy him after loosing a major war, seeking for the change they deem necessary to return Pacifica to its former glory.

Only thing I didn't know was that GGA had asked NPO to kill VE, and that's because I wasn't playing at the time. It only makes sense that they would, wanting to be the #1 alliance in Green.

The fact remains that there's nothing more interesting to talk about in BOB than something that somehow relates to Pacifica. 21 Pg's

-

Oh then I agree, there really is nothing else to talk about here. And the GGA asking NPO to kill VE thing is pretty old news truth be told, but if you weren't around it's alright I suppose.

[Branimir]

He was lying when he declared NPO does not actively spy. In fact, we have proof NPO has spied on us on the past. Remember Griswalds? We sure do.

Well then this puts us in a pickle. How can we now know where he is lying and where not.

No matter, we can always use the parts we can for our agenda and disregard the rest.

[WarriorConcept]

Well then this puts us in a pickle. How can we now know where he is lying and where not.

No matter, we can always use the parts we can for our agenda and disregard the rest.

Much like you're doing

[Proko]

Well then this puts us in a pickle. How can we now know where he is lying and where not.

No matter, we can always use the parts we can for our agenda and disregard the rest.

You're right. He lies about many things in his logs and it's difficult to sort true from false. But why mention Ursarkar by name if there was no truth to it? It's worth more than blanket statements like "NPO doesn't spy" or "NPO doesn't know anything about the secret terms given to Polaris," two generalizations that are entirely false. If he said "We don't have spies on Polaris" unprovoked, maybe I would believe him. But without provocation, he mentioned that Ursarkar was leaking screen shots.

[Branimir]

Much like you're doing

Much like your doing,.....hey this is easy we can go around all day doing that,....

Now, if you could elaborate, that would be fine. I am not disregarding any part of Zha logs as a priori lies. I am just putting into perspective that what Zha mentioned about Usurkar does not necessary equate to spying, actually, I am quite sure Zha wouldnt hold on and not depict it as such if he considered it as such.

[AirMe]

Interesting read. Nothing new...

I have a question though...

Has any Pacifican leadership other than Ivan ever stepped up and taken responsibility for mistakes? I mean, all this seems to me is Zhadum trying to point fingers at other leadership instead of being a man and taking responsibility for issues he may have had a hand in creating.

Again, all I see is finger pointing here.

[hizzy]

Well then this puts us in a pickle. How can we now know where he is lying and where not.

By knowing what the hell happened in the first place without getting someone else's account of it? I don't know, that might work.

[Proko]

Much like your doing,.....hey this is easy we can go around all day doing that,....

Now, if you could elaborate, that would be fine. I am not disregarding any part of Zha logs as a priori lies. I am just putting into perspective that what Zha mentioned about Usurkar does not necessary equate to spying, actually, I am quite sure Zha wouldnt hold on and not depict it as such if he considered it as such.

[19:10:59] <+Zhadum> Well, Grub hates the NPO according to the posts Ursarkar keeps leaking out of their forums, same with most of their leaders

This information is not readily available by our public boards. If it was, then the screen shots would not need to come from Ursarkar, or even anyone in Pacifica, for that matter. It implies that Ursarkar is getting information from more than simply the area of our forum that anyone can see.

Otherwise, I challenge you to put together a case that Grub "hates" Pacifica based on information gathered from our public lobby. Actually, I would challenge you to do that anyway (I have always considered Grub to be one of the most pro-Pacifican members of our government)

[WarriorConcept]

Much like your doing,.....hey this is easy we can go around all day doing that,....

Now, if you could elaborate, that would be fine. I am not disregarding any part of Zha logs as a priori lies. I am just putting into perspective that what Zha mentioned about Usurkar does not necessary equate to spying, actually, I am quite sure Zha wouldnt hold on and not depict it as such if he considered it as such.

Well taking into account what Grub has said, and the fact that NPO has indeed spied on NpO in the past, and that zha is pointing out someone as an active spy, I'd say there's definitely something going on. If anything I don't think there will be much trust between the 2 alliances for quite a while longer than I originally thought.

[Branimir]

But without provocation, he mentioned that Ursarkar was leaking screen shots.

I am not reading the logs again, but what he said was that the guy pointed out some Grubs posts on the NpO board.

Now, with that being said, he could have just provide them with Grub rantings addressed in general membership areas from the time he was a member, or from areas he can still see on your board.

But hey man, you do what you want.

[Proko]

Also I would observe, Branimir, that you did not respond to my allegation that Z'ha'dum's statement "NPO does not spy" is proven false by Griswalds. If NPO has spied on Polaris in the past, as with Griswalds, it is not illogical they would do so currently, as with Ursarkar.

[Branimir]

Well taking into account what Grub has said, and the fact that NPO has indeed spied on NpO in the past, and that zha is pointing out someone as an active spy, I'd say there's definitely something going on. If anything I don't think there will be much trust between the 2 alliances for quite a while longer than I originally thought.

"Active spy" lol. Yes, well sure whatever mate. Your verdict is in.

[hizzy]

Actually, I would challenge you to do that anyway (I have always considered Grub to be one of the most pro-Pacifican members of our government)

I really need to support this statement. Even after we got rolled, I was pissed as hell at NPO, and pissed even more at Grub's attitude towards them. In hindsight, I can admit I was the one in the wrong. Grub didn't let his vision get clouded by emotion; he only worked to better Polaris. To say that he had anything on his mind otherwise it to be wrong.

[Proko]

I am not reading the logs again, but what he said was that the guy pointed out some Grubs posts on the NpO board.

Now, with that being said, he could have just provide them with Grub rantings addressed in general membership areas from the time he was a member, or from areas he can still see on your board.

But hey man, you do what you want.

[19:10:59] <+Zhadum> Well, Grub hates the NPO according to the posts Ursarkar keeps leaking out of their forums, same with most of their leaders

"Keeps leaking" implies that it is currently and actively going on. If he had leaked old material, then the verb "leaked" would have been more appropriate. It doesn't help that Ursarkar always has the password to our private channel, too.

[hizzy]

I am not reading the logs again, but what he said was that the guy pointed out some Grubs posts on the NpO board.

Now, with that being said, he could have just provide them with Grub rantings addressed in general membership areas from the time he was a member, or from areas he can still see on your board.

But hey man, you do what you want.

How about you DO read the logs again so you're not talking out of your $@!?

<+Zhadum> Well, Grub hates the NPO according to the posts Ursarkar keeps leaking out of their forums, same with most of their leaders

[WarriorConcept]

"Active spy" lol. Yes, well sure whatever mate. Your verdict is in.

[19:10:59] <+Zhadum> Well, Grub hates the NPO according to the posts Ursarkar keeps leaking out of their forums, same with most of their leaders

While I don't want to go OOC on this post, I know your first language is not english as neither is mine, but this implies that it's current and actively happening in the present.

[Kim Jaym Il]

Now, with that being said, he could have just provide them with Grub rantings addressed in general membership areas from the time he was a member

Because that's absolutely Ok regardless, right?

[Branimir]

Also I would observe, Branimir, that you did not respond to my allegation that Z'ha'dum's statement "NPO does not spy" is proven false by Griswalds. If NPO has spied on Polaris in the past, as with Griswalds, it is not illogical they would do so currently, as with Ursarkar.

Also Proko, I would observe that Branimir doesn't like to speak about things he doesn't know, but only about things he can definitely see.

So Branimir isn't aware of the entire Gris ordeal and as such, can not comment. What he can is though provide with a certain different interpretation of Zha words in regard to Usurakrs activity which can be made, taking into account the entirety of the logs and not handpicking anything.

[Branimir]

Listen mates, I am not going to battle a horde gang up here.

I did said in my posts that the posts the guy provided IOs with could be from the days he was a member and also from now from the areas he can see. Now, you interpret the lines however you wish.

[hizzy]

Because that's absolutely Ok regardless, right?

dammit shut up J, now you're gonna give him some retarded tangent to run with.

Also Proko, I would observe that Branimir doesn't like to speak about things he doesn't know, but only about things he can definitely see.

So Branimir isn't aware of the entire Gris ordeal and as such, can not comment. What he can is though provide with a certain different interpretation of Zha words in regard to Usurakrs activity which can be made, taking into account the entirety of the logs and not handpicking anything.

You know what's better than taking a "certain different interpretation"? Taking the actual meaning of the words that someone used.

[WarriorConcept]

Listen mates, I am not going to battle a horde gang up here.

I did said in my posts that the posts the guy provided IOs with could be from the days he was a member and also from now from the areas he can see. Now, you interpret the lines however you wish.

Because giving NPO screenshots of posts from private NpO forums, even not the leadership ones, would be OK, right?

[HellAngel]

Haha this is getting better every minute. Almost makes you want to feel sorry for NPO.

[Branimir]

You know what's better than taking a "certain different interpretation"? Taking the actual meaning of the words that someone used.

They are contradictory at best.

If you take Zha using the words "leaking" as in having access where he shouldn't have had and providing info from, then he is spying.

But Zha also said how he isn't aware of NPO spying as in having access where it shouldn't have had and gathering info from there.

Now, its a pickle. One could handpick the lines and meanings to suit his agenda and have a go at it. Sure that is politics.

Jaymjaym, at this point, coming from an alliance which was spied upon constantly and their info leaked from ex members, is it ok or not I am totally beyond that. Obviously it is when its NPO on the receiving end.