Ultimatum to the Family

[crushtania]

Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.

So when the Karma coalition assembled, its NS far surpassing that of the Hegemony, should they have asked themselves "hey, just because we CAN do this, SHOULD we??" Doubtful. I think judgment calls are the sole province of the leaders who make them; let their values be the determinant of "if or when or not at all". If the Family allow tech raiding and have decided to hit RV's nation then so be it. They will have to live with whatever the consequences may be.

[BlackjackCF]

Speaking of this, I was attacked with cruise missiles and aircraft. Those weapons do not give the attacker tech or money or land. They merely destroy another nation. Which is what this is all about. Quite hiding behind the "tech raid" excuse, Sorum. Man up and tell everybody what this is really about.

But he already did:

I attacked you because I don't like you. Live with it.

[Sargun II]

If I was accusing you of making threats I would have said something like..."STOP THREATENING ME I AM THE GREAT CORNHOLIO!" But I didn't. I merely asked if you were threatening me and you got snarky.

You asked a stupid question, of course I got snarky.

Speaking of this, I was attacked with cruise missiles and aircraft. Those weapons do not give the attacker tech or money or land. They merely destroy another nation. Which is what this is all about. Quite hiding behind the "tech raid" excuse, Sorum. Man up and tell everybody what this is really about.

CMs and aircraft weaken you, making his job easier. BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

[JWConner]

Well I'm glad infringement of sovereignty is the accepted norm now. I use to think people would at least try and respect other alliances.

Again, most alliances dont consider a group using the same AA under 5 members to be an alliance, including VA. Now, if they have protection or a treaty, thats different. But, if they're under 5 members, no treaties, then we dont consider them an alliance...as many alliances do as well.

If you are trying to argue the opposite, then you're doing so merely for arguments-sake.

[Nintenderek]

I'm also glad that people ignore the CN practice of getting a protectorate or an MDP+.

Usually ignoring this practice leads to raiding.

That doesn't change what this is. It's clearly an infringement of our sovereignty as an alliance. It's not even a freaking tech raid, it's an all out war on one alliance for no reason but because you can.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Nintenderek

[Master-Debater]

Have we all forgotten how things work on Bob? Seriously? If you don't have a protector you leave your micro alliance vulnerable to attack.

RV; do you have a protector? Or an MDP partner?

If yes, call them up and have them retaliate on your behalf.

No?

Then you're on your own. I think I've made this simple enough for both n00bs and veterans to understand.

Ummmm….Not all alliances raid people who have an AA, at any size. And not all alliances want a protectorate. The way Bob works in your mind is quite amusing, if not sad.

[SpacingOutMan]

Speaking of this, I was attacked with cruise missiles and aircraft. Those weapons do not give the attacker tech or money or land. They merely destroy another nation. Which is what this is all about. Quite hiding behind the "tech raid" excuse, Sorum. Man up and tell everybody what this is really about.

You are really bad at playing the victim.

Mind you, this is also the reason why I don't tech raid anymore... I was one of those idiots who used missiles and aircraft. :v

[Moridin]

You're the one accusing me of making threats, good man.

He asked if it was a threat.

The Family is not going to look tough because it can attack a 2 member alliance, nor is FAIL going to gain anything at all by escalating the situation. Now I really am not going to involve myself in this situation any further nor do I intend to make any further posts, but let me just say that if everyone were to take a step back and let cooler heads prevail this whole would probably go away.

[Ebony Wings]

My, what an interesting little turn of events.

[crushtania]

MHA: Might makes right!

So classy guys. I'm sure one day MHA/tF will pay for their transgressions, that is karma after all.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Sure.

Show me an unprotected microalliance that doesn't get tech raided and I'll show you a goose that lays a golden egg.

[Rebel Virginia]

Has RV asked for peace? Or just threatened us with an ultimatum?

You attacked me and have waged an unprovoked war upon my alliance. Don't try to whitewash this simple fact.

RV; do you have a protector? Or an MDP partner?

I have military treaties with the GDI and ION.

[AirMe]

So when the Karma coalition assembled, its NS far surpassing that of the Hegemony, should they have asked themselves "hey, just because we CAN do this, SHOULD we??" Doubtful. I think judgment calls are the sole province of the leaders who make them; let their values be the determinant of "if or when or not at all". If the Family allow tech raiding and have decided to hit RV's nation then so be it. They will have to live with whatever the consequences may be.

I think given the situation, and in my opinion, Karma COULD and SHOULD have done something and did.

You asked a stupid question, of course I got snarky.

CMs and aircraft weaken you, making his job easier. BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

There is no such thing as a stupid question. Just dumb answers.

[Sargun II]

Ummmm….Not all alliances raid people who have an AA, at any size. And not all alliances want a protectorate. The way Bob works in your mind is quite amusing, if not sad.

If they don't want a protectorate, they can deal with the consequences. How hard is it to understand such a simple concept?

[AirMe]

If they don't want a protectorate, they can deal with the consequences. How hard is it to understand such a simple concept?

So when their treaty partners come knocking, you won't complain?

[Sargun II]

He asked if it was a threat.

If he has to ask if it's a threat then it obviously isn't one.

There is no such thing as a stupid question. Just dumb answers.

There is no such thing as a dumb answer. Just stupid questions.

[BlackjackCF]

That doesn't change what this is. It's clearly an infringement of our sovereignty as an alliance. It's not even a freaking tech raid, it's an all out war on one alliance for no reason but because you can.

All out war? Please.

One nation raiding another does not a full out war make.

[Matthew Conrad]

That doesn't change what this is. It's clearly an infringement of our sovereignty as an alliance. It's not even a freaking tech raid, it's an all out war on one alliance for no reason but because you can.

If it were an all out war, wouldn't you be under attack right now? If they wanted to ZI RV, wouldn't his slots be filled?

[Sargun II]

So when their treaty partners come knocking, you won't complain?

Point me out a treaty that says "we're gonna attack an entire alliance because one member tech raided our partner" and I'll give you 50 tech.

[JWConner]

Ummmm….Not all alliances raid people who have an AA, at any size. And not all alliances want a protectorate. The way Bob works in your mind is quite amusing, if not sad.

The way Bob works in his mind? Really?

What world are you living in? Reality and your perception are MILES apart. Stop pretending that you didnt know that alliances under 5 members without protection was a smart and successful idea. Doing so, well, looks unfavorable upon you. RV likes to complain. He likes drama. He ticks off the wrong people, baits them, sits alone waiting to be attacked, then throws around ultimatums to garner attention. And look, we're giving it to him.

[HeinousOne]

"Looks like Rebel Virginia is going to end up having what happened to Opethian, I can't wait to watch the results."

Actually Opethian was the aggressor in his situation. So your comparison is a whole lot of fail.

Ask STA and heinousone about condemning an entire alliance over the actions of one. It's routine practice for them, so.. I guess it's become acceptable for everyone else now? But airme did the same to me, so he might be the authority on it, so.. yeah, lemme know what he says to you.

I see he hasn't really answered your question at all.. keep pressing him for more info.

Oh, look here AJ makes a failed comparison as well.

In your situation I condemned MA because they allowed you to commit and threaten acts that go against their policies and then said they would defend you while you did such. That is why MA was at fault in your situation. Perhaps if you weren't busy trying to score points, not to mention failing at such, you might wonder why I hadn't put in my two cents on this. Since I am now brought into the discussion by you I will give that two cents worth. According to The Family's policies of allowing tech raids it would appear the attack would be a legal attack from their end. Now maybe Sorum has committed some acts that might go against that but the case in most tech raids is pm for peace not start up an OWF thread to make your raider look bad. I am not surprised Sorum has decided to bomb you. Its heavyhanded and bullyish but you dont have a protector and you are a two man alliance. I know RV is gonna be spitting venom at such and AJ will probably try to turn this on me for appearing to change my opinion even though I am not but having a two man alliance with no protector is really asking for situations like this so it appears to me as if RV has been waiting for this to happen and is probably happy that it involves MHA and their branch off alliance of tech raiders, The Family.

So, basically I might caution Sorum and The Family from taking it too far due to this obviously being what RV wanted to happen, in the end though I dont see anyone doing anything about it. They havnt yet made any massive threats of ZI, EZI or PZI. Will watch and see how this plays out.

[Rebel Virginia]

lol you know you wanted this you specifically plan out your little incidents and nudge people to doing stuff like this so you can go blow it out of proportion for all planet bob to see and play the martyr I'm surprised anyone feels bad for you at all. There are bullies and then there are the small kids on the playground who go around acting tough and pushing around the bigger kids until the big kid just punches out the little kid who was bugging him. Your that annoying little kid and while the rest of enjoy watching you getting punched out it does get old after awhile.

Wait, so this is my fault? Because I'm not nice and I'm in a small alliance I'm just such a juicy and tempting target? I get it, Sorum couldn't help himself. He's the victim of his own uncontrollable urges. Its not his fault. He just can't control himself.

[James Maximus]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Sure.

Show me an unprotected microalliance that doesn't get tech raided and I'll show you a goose that lays a golden egg.

This isn't a "tech raid" its already been stated that the reason for attack is that Sourm doesn't like RV. Pathetic.

[Ivellios]

wow this is quite suprising. I feel that their is a bit of malicious intent on the part of the attackers on Rebel Virginia's nations above a mere tech raid, but i suppose thats already been clarified. I hope things are resolved peacefully.

[crushtania]

So when their treaty partners come knocking, you won't complain?

I would hope not. Like I said, all actions have consequences. If their treaty partners retaliate, IF they have any, the Family will have to defend against them, and the attackers will have to defend against tF's allies.

[Guido]

I see a lot of sarcastic and asinine posts from people of "The Family". It's nice when you prove the OP right time and time again in this single thread.

Also, I wasn't aware that "I don't like you" was a justifiable CB anymore now that The Great Karma is here. Aren't we still playing the "Greater than Thou" part or are we done with that?