A discussion on Infrastructure

[Overlord Shinnra]

I am currently hanging on at 4,999.99 Infrastructure and am trying to decide whether to go further.

I have no concern for being the top nation or in the top 20 or anything like that. What concerns me most is being prepared to defend my nation adequately if the occasion arises. I have heard many varying debates and decisions on this matter and it is deeply divided. That is why I would like to open up the discussion on the matter.

Here are a couple pros and cons to each level.

4,999.99 Infra

-Stopping at 4,999.99 Infra will save you a larger war chest then going to 7,999.99 or beyond.

-Much harder to bill lock with cheaper bills

-Much Easier to rebuild this type of nation

7,999.99 Infra

-Will increase the max soldiers you can buy thus increasing your chances of anarchying an opponent

-Makes more money per collection then 4,999.99 Infra

-Easier to bill lock without a decent war chest

-Harder to rebuild this type of nation

Beyond

-Will increase max soldiers you can buy thus increasing you chances of anarchying an opponent even farther

-Makes more money per collection then other two

-Very Easy to bill lock if not careful and without large war chest

-Impossible to rebuild this nation in any decent sort of time

So what do you guys think? Bigger war chest or Bigger Nation?

[Nova Bacia]

voted 7,999.99 Infra, but only because you have to spend your money on something.

[Lord Sharpe]

voted 7,999.99 Infra, but only because you have to spend your money on something.

This is a good point, though I believe it takes years for that much infra to pay for itself. I'd stop at 4999.99, war chest and wonder it up. If you don't feel like going to war after that, than go for infra.

[Bob Janova]

It depends what your nation's purpose is. For nuclear war, 4999 is probably the place to stop, as the infra upkeep jump makes you considerably easier to bill lock. For non-nuclear war, more infra is good because of the extra military, but on the other hand you need a larger war chest to pay bills again. For just living and increasing the worth of your nation, buying more infra is clearly the way to go.

[Guido]

Look at it this way, althought right now >8k infra doesn't do much for a nation, and in fact oyu start losing money eventually for every infra point you buy, admin is going to have to change this since a large portion of the game is getting to this point. Therefore buying more infra is always better IMO.

[SpacingOutMan]

For an efficient militarized nation, staying at 4,999.99 is fine. There is honestly no need to go on unless you really want to.

[Boondock]

Truthfully, except for tech raids or very small scale wars, every war from now on will be nuclear. 4999.99 is the best place to stop for that. However, banking nations, etc. Should have higher infra.

[Eastern Ruler]

You must never stop buying infra until 15k because the more infra you have the harder it is for someone to ZI you

[Rozalia]

You must never stop buying infra until 15k because the more infra you have the harder it is for someone to ZI you

If they bill lock you then you're basically finished if you don't go into peace mode. So that 15K infra advantage could vanish into nothing.

[Eastern Ruler]

If they bill lock you then you're basically finished if you don't go into peace mode. So that 15K infra advantage could vanish into nothing.

Then just sell infra until you're out of bill lock. Better to have more than less.

[myruler]

If they bill lock you then you're basically finished if you don't go into peace mode. So that 15K infra advantage could vanish into nothing.

Also, a war that lasts 7 days can't destroy 15k infra.

[MrThor]

Truthfully, except for tech raids or very small scale wars, every war from now on will be nuclear. 4999.99 is the best place to stop for that. However, banking nations, etc. Should have higher infra.

All of TOP disagrees with you.

You get nuked 20 times+the pains of war, your nation ceases to exist.

[Rozalia]

Also, a war that lasts 7 days can't destroy 15k infra.

Lets look at possible damage shall we.

Nukes x 7 = 1050 infra

Ground x 42 = 1040 infra

Airforce x 42 = 1040 infra

Cruise missles x 42 =780 - 520 - 260 infra.

Spies x 14 = 70 infra

*This is without outside factors of course*

This can add up to a grand total of 3960 infra. However you'll be in anarchy proberly after the first attacks or nukes meaning you won't have much to collect. Now you siad, sell your infra to pay your bills. One fatal flaw, you're also dropping your income so that doesn't help.

Also even if you do avoid it what are you going to do, you're still getting pounded afterwards.

[myruler]

Since when do spies work every time and you can't nuke on the first day making the max there at 900 infra destroyed. Also, there's almost no way that if you get a decent way up there in strength that the nation attacking you will be able to send off a full 6 nukes. you nuke them back and there is no way the alliance will be able to pay for more days of bills in a fullscale war. As long as you don't do anything stupid and go to war against an alliance by yourself, you should only get nuked 3 times(you can nuke them back and they can't nuke you in billlock).

[Drai]

If your only goal is to be a war machine, which I would assume means going nuclear, then only go to 4,999.99 infra, just be sure to be involved in the odd tech deal to stay in range to buy nukes. Once you get all 12 wonders, which will take forever if you don't have any, then you can go on to 7,999.99 and you shouldn't have to worry about getting bill-locked as you will be making far too much money anyway.

[uaciaut]

All 3; a properly organized alliance should have a big pack of guys sitting on 4.999 who are most prepared for a nuclear war, a pack of exceptional guys at 7.999 prepared for mostly anything (but less mobile because of high bills) and a few over 8k, that truly want to go pass that (realizing they can hit bill lock early) and who can take on nations of equal infra that the 7.999k ones can't (in an equally number-wise matched war )

[Rozalia]

Since when do spies work every time and you can't nuke on the first day making the max there at 900 infra destroyed. Also, there's almost no way that if you get a decent way up there in strength that the nation attacking you will be able to send off a full 6 nukes. you nuke them back and there is no way the alliance will be able to pay for more days of bills in a fullscale war. As long as you don't do anything stupid and go to war against an alliance by yourself, you should only get nuked 3 times(you can nuke them back and they can't nuke you in billlock).

Please read the very important statement in my post.

Nukes x 7 = 1050 infra

Ground x 42 = 1040 infra

Airforce x 42 = 1040 infra

Cruise missles x 42 =780 - 520 - 260 infra.

Spies x 14 = 70 infra

*This is without outside factors of course*

[steodonn]

I am just coming up on the 4999 infa and I plan to go to 7999. The lager nation more soldiers and less people stronger than you are the main advantages of going to 7999

[Syzygy]

i think people care too much. really, just keep buying some infra everytime you feel you should do. restricting yourself to 4999,99 only because "there could be a nuclear war some day" is not very clever. after all its just a game and it can easily be that you wont be in a nuclear war for the next year... (except you want to start one of course ^^).

if you want to have some fun, go for 1999infra + masstech + 20nukes. there is no way you can be bill locked, you still make around 1M profit per day which enables you to buy a wonder per month and you can drop a nuke every day on a nation with 10times higher infracosts then your own. pretty funny. even if he ZIs you, you rebuild in 10days...and he not even in 10weeks.

[Rozalia]

i think people care too much. really, just keep buying some infra everytime you feel you should do. restricting yourself to 4999,99 only because "there could be a nuclear war some day" is not very clever. after all its just a game and it can easily be that you wont be in a nuclear war for the next year... (except you want to start one of course ^^).

if you want to have some fun, go for 1999infra + masstech + 20nukes. there is no way you can be bill locked, you still make around 1M profit per day which enables you to buy a wonder per month and you can drop a nuke every day on a nation with 10times higher infracosts then your own. pretty funny. even if he ZIs you, you rebuild in 10days...and he not even in 10weeks.

That would be a harsh thing to do. Whoever dos that will be a force.

[Boondock]

All of TOP disagrees with you.

You get nuked 20 times+the pains of war, your nation ceases to exist.

Any decent warrior nation has a large warchest. Large enough to keep themselves out of billock and doing more then twice the damage they take. However, i agree with uaciaut. 7999.99, a few guys up there for conventional, etc. a few guys at 4999.99 for the best nuclear recovery, and a few guys past that for the hell of it, and to keep the massive guys in check if the 7999.99 guys need help.

But i also agree that this is argued too much, the point is to have fun. If you want to buy infra you should. Hell, do what Syzygy said, make a baby nuker.

[Veritas]

This probably depends on what kind of alliance you are in and how likely you are to get in a war but even past 7,999.99 infra you are raking in soooo much cash that keeping a large warchest is just something that happens naturaly if you are labor camp rotating properly. Also building a 8k+ inf nation is not exactly something you can just decide to do if you are able to do it go for it as you can just jump in peace mode and send out aid rather than being directly involved in a war. Anyways just my .02.

-Veritas

P.S. The baby nuker would be SWEET!

Edited October 30, 2007 by Veritas

[Smallfrog]

Lets look at possible damage shall we.

Nukes x 7 = 1050 infra

Ground x 42 = 1040 infra

Airforce x 42 = 1040 infra

Cruise missles x 42 =780 - 520 - 260 infra.

Spies x 14 = 70 infra

*This is without outside factors of course*

This can add up to a grand total of 3960 infra. However you'll be in anarchy proberly after the first attacks or nukes meaning you won't have much to collect. Now you siad, sell your infra to pay your bills. One fatal flaw, you're also dropping your income so that doesn't help.

Also even if you do avoid it what are you going to do, you're still getting pounded afterwards.

I worked it out as 5020 infa as a max. 4600 with missile defense at maximum and opponent without satellites.

[MegaVolt]

Depends on if the war you want to fight is nuclear or not.

Conventional: Go for 7999 infra.

Nuclear: Go for 4999 infra.

[Mjolnir]

That is... kinda true.

The infra system should be on an exponential relationship (to the extreme that is). More infra you have = more taxes you can collect. I just passed the 8000 infra (granted I'm mid 8000s) but there doesn't seem to be much difference compared to the mid 7000s. That should be changed drastically. And nukes should focus more on population happiness than infra loss.