Ragnarok Announcement

[HeinousOne]

This thread topic was about Ragnarok and peace term negotiations, not TOP's wartime nuclear policy. I'd say it can't be saved at this point.

This is all I see whenever I look into this thread.

[PrideAssassin]

I agree with this man.

If Paradoxians are going to try and make out to be better than everyone else, they seriously need to increase the originality of their prose. How can our excellence be communicated through such cliches?

Also, I find it amusing how we get cast in every possible role in this war. So far we've been hegemonist villain, karmic savior, backroom brute, sappy pushover, fierce warrior, sniveling coward, too slow to act, too quick to act, too generous, and too stingy.

Ah, life in the Order of the Paradox is never boring.

You know, because "Karma" is so decisive.

[Krull]

RoK leadership could have easily gone to the leadership of these other mentioned alliances and voiced their complaints. Then these alliances could have informed their membership to cease and desist from spreading the lie. Easy, and doesn't make the drama. Posting such a public announcement=drama.

Spreading an unconfirmed rumor=drama.

Making sure everyone knows the truth=/=drama.

[Poobah]

This thread is a !@#$@#$ joke. We went to hell to defend SF and this is what we get in return? We broke the Lux Aeterna, we attacked a direct treaty partner of our ally whom we had a ToA with. We risked everything in place to save your asses.

Thanks. Thanks to everyone included for making you show your true face.

Ok first things first.

1. Chill

He is getting bashed for wanting to make a deal with IRON. If you want to bash him, at least bash the whole alliance, because all archons stood behind that plan. And you know why? Winning wasnt so clear at the beginning. Nobody knew how it would blow up. I know the first thought i had when i heard about NPO and OV clashing was that we would either let SF get destroyed or get destroyed with them. It was natural we tried everything in our power to weaken the opposing side. A major alliance drawing out early would have brought odds to our side. Of course the TOP-IRON relationship also played a role. You know how this war would have ended if TOP joined the hegemony side. You would all not be here to tell the story.

The only thing he did wrong was claiming Gre would not join should the deal not get through. I can ensure you this would have cause internal riot and revolution. There are means to coup a government in Gremlins and i damn sure would have made use of it, but history disproved that point anyway.

2. "You did the same thing as Polar and therefor deserve the same fate"

ES was a huge dick to many alliances. He did threaten, ridicule and belittle others, always using the power of his allies. It is true that polar mainly got attacked for him, but the final straw was AlmightyGrub saying he would destroy TOP at the first given chance. When did Gremlins become a threat to SF alliances? When did we talk about bringing your demise behind your backs? Our intention was to make our side WIN, not to destroy it. You can believe it or you can not, i dont care anymore.

3. "TOP didnt go nuclear making all other alliances involved take more damage"

Seriously, wtf? This is war. Every alliance fights a war differently, and if you want to have them on your side, you better respect their way of playing the game. TOP, to my knowledge, never sanctioned first strike nukes in any war i know of. If you really think they care about the #1 spot then you definately never spoke to any one of them and your opinion lacks any facts to base it on.

Have I told you lately that I love you?

[ROMMELHSQ]

This thread is a !@#$@#$ joke. We went to hell to defend SF and this is what we get in return? We broke the Lux Aeterna, we attacked a direct treaty partner of our ally whom we had a ToA with. We risked everything in place to save your asses.

Thanks. Thanks to everyone included for making you show your true face.

Ok first things first.

1. Chill

He is getting bashed for wanting to make a deal with IRON. If you want to bash him, at least bash the whole alliance, because all archons stood behind that plan. And you know why? Winning wasnt so clear at the beginning. Nobody knew how it would blow up. I know the first thought i had when i heard about NPO and OV clashing was that we would either let SF get destroyed or get destroyed with them. It was natural we tried everything in our power to weaken the opposing side. A major alliance drawing out early would have brought odds to our side. Of course the TOP-IRON relationship also played a role. You know how this war would have ended if TOP joined the hegemony side. You would all not be here to tell the story.

The only thing he did wrong was claiming Gre would not join should the deal not get through. I can ensure you this would have cause internal riot and revolution. There are means to coup a government in Gremlins and i damn sure would have made use of it, but history disproved that point anyway.

2. "You did the same thing as Polar and therefor deserve the same fate"

ES was a huge dick to many alliances. He did threaten, ridicule and belittle others, always using the power of his allies. It is true that polar mainly got attacked for him, but the final straw was AlmightyGrub saying he would destroy TOP at the first given chance. When did Gremlins become a threat to SF alliances? When did we talk about bringing your demise behind your backs? Our intention was to make our side WIN, not to destroy it. You can believe it or you can not, i dont care anymore.

3. "TOP didnt go nuclear making all other alliances involved take more damage"

Seriously, wtf? This is war. Every alliance fights a war differently, and if you want to have them on your side, you better respect their way of playing the game. TOP, to my knowledge, never sanctioned first strike nukes in any war i know of. If you really think they care about the #1 spot then you definately never spoke to any one of them and your opinion lacks any facts to base it on.

HellAngel

Edited May 30, 2009 by ROMMELHSQ

[Bob]

RoK leadership could have easily gone to the leadership of these other mentioned alliances and voiced their complaints. Then these alliances could have informed their membership to cease and desist from spreading the lie. Easy, and doesn't make the drama. Posting such a public announcement=drama.

The rumor was raised publicly, and as such required a public answer because it was voiced time after time after time. I think RoK would have been foolish to not post this publicly because now we all know they didn't demand ridiculous reparations, and our respect for RoK is increased, at least mine personally.

[Carter]

We went out of our way to minimise damage to ourselves

That just about proves everyone's point right there. That's exactly what you did, and that's what's caused this problem. The fact that you're trying to justify it just makes it look worse.

[Luis Quezada]

This thread is a !@#$@#$ joke. We went to hell to defend SF and this is what we get in return? We broke the Lux Aeterna, we attacked a direct treaty partner of our ally whom we had a ToA with. We risked everything in place to save your asses.

Thanks. Thanks to everyone included for making you show your true face.

Ok first things first.

1. Chill

He is getting bashed for wanting to make a deal with IRON. If you want to bash him, at least bash the whole alliance, because all archons stood behind that plan. And you know why? Winning wasnt so clear at the beginning. Nobody knew how it would blow up. I know the first thought i had when i heard about NPO and OV clashing was that we would either let SF get destroyed or get destroyed with them. It was natural we tried everything in our power to weaken the opposing side. A major alliance drawing out early would have brought odds to our side. Of course the TOP-IRON relationship also played a role. You know how this war would have ended if TOP joined the hegemony side. You would all not be here to tell the story.

The only thing he did wrong was claiming Gre would not join should the deal not get through. I can ensure you this would have cause internal riot and revolution. There are means to coup a government in Gremlins and i damn sure would have made use of it, but history disproved that point anyway.

2. "You did the same thing as Polar and therefor deserve the same fate"

ES was a huge dick to many alliances. He did threaten, ridicule and belittle others, always using the power of his allies. It is true that polar mainly got attacked for him, but the final straw was AlmightyGrub saying he would destroy TOP at the first given chance. When did Gremlins become a threat to SF alliances? When did we talk about bringing your demise behind your backs? Our intention was to make our side WIN, not to destroy it. You can believe it or you can not, i dont care anymore.

3. "TOP didnt go nuclear making all other alliances involved take more damage"

Seriously, wtf? This is war. Every alliance fights a war differently, and if you want to have them on your side, you better respect their way of playing the game. TOP, to my knowledge, never sanctioned first strike nukes in any war i know of. If you really think they care about the #1 spot then you definately never spoke to any one of them and your opinion lacks any facts to base it on.

/thread 2.0

[ROMMELHSQ]

That just about proves everyone's point right there. That's exactly what you did, and that's what's caused this problem. The fact that you're trying to justify it just makes it look worse.

selection quoting ftl. You ignored the tens of posts in which we said that we came to save some people asses in ( in which we succeeded) and try to minimize our damage. Sorry, but we aren't a kamikaze squadron

Edited May 30, 2009 by ROMMELHSQ

[Carter]

selection quoting ftl. You ignored the tens of posts in which we said that we came to save some people asses in ( in which we succeeded) and try to minimize our damage. Sorry, but we aren't a kamikaze squadron

No one is, we all enter war to "save peoples asses" but we don't do is to try and minimize our damage. That's the problem.

[Krull]

selection quoting ftl. You ignored the tens of posts in which we said that we came to save some people asses in ( in which we succeeded) and try to minimize our damage. Sorry, but we aren't a kamikaze squadron

The only $@! you guys succeeded in saving was IRON's.

[HellAngel]

Thats usually what allies do, Krull.

[Bob]

selection quoting ftl. You ignored the tens of posts in which we said that we came to save some people asses in ( in which we succeeded) and try to minimize our damage. Sorry, but we aren't a kamikaze squadron

Sorry you aren't willing to use your full resources? Its not suicide at all to use nukes, you just actually take damage

And you definitely saved RIA's asses by making their middle ranks eat WRC nukes because you didn't actually nuke, so they ended up with guys with 20 nukes and a ridiculous amount of tech on their middle tier nations.

[DogeWilliam]

we all enter war to "save peoples asses"

War is the art of physically defeating your enemy right? I think you might be referring to something more akin to Aid Relief.

[Bob]

War is the art of physically defeating your enemy right? I think you might be referring to something more akin to Aid Relief.

And are they anywhere nearby physically defeated if they still have 20 nukes after they are done with their war with you and use them on another person involved on the front? You didn't serve a front, you served your own interests.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris

[Krull]

Thats usually what allies do, Krull.

So they joined the war on the opposite side to save IRON's $@!? Because that's what I was responding to.

[Carter]

War is the art of physically defeating your enemy right? I think you might be referring to something more akin to Aid Relief.

You can dodge around the true statement all you want. You can enter war to save someone, people do it all the time. Both IC and OOC.

[Poobah]

Next time, if you don't want TOP to enter, how about you make a public request that they don't enter. The truth is, everyone on the Karma side breathed a sigh of relief when we found out TOP was entering, because they are one of the top, if not the most, devastating alliance left. Them not using nukes does much more damage than pretty much any other alliance using nukes. If you (read: SF alliances and other people !@#$%*ing) didn't like the help they were providing, you could have kindly asked them to leave. Since they are the infra lovers you say they are, I think they would have been more than happy to oblige.

Stop !@#$%*ing because they fought the war different than you, they were still a lot more effective.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Poobah

[shahenshah]

The only $@! you guys succeeded in saving was IRON's.

They succeeded in saving alot of Karma alliances.

IRON would also like to thank Duckroll allies, MHA, Gramlins and FCC. Also a small hai to FARK.

HellAngel, o\ An Excellent post.

Edited May 30, 2009 by shahenshah

[King DrunkWino]

And you definitely saved RIA's asses by making their middle ranks eat WRC nukes because you didn't actually nuke, so they ended up with guys with 20 nukes and a ridiculous amount of tech on their middle tier nations.

If need be we can speak for ourselves, thankyouverymuch.

/I appreciate the thought behind what your saying though, so don't get annoyed by that line.

[President Obama]

This thread is a !@#$@#$ joke. We went to hell to defend SF and this is what we get in return? We broke the Lux Aeterna, we attacked a direct treaty partner of our ally whom we had a ToA with. We risked everything in place to save your asses.

Thanks. Thanks to everyone included for making you show your true face.

Ok first things first.

1. Chill

He is getting bashed for wanting to make a deal with IRON. If you want to bash him, at least bash the whole alliance, because all archons stood behind that plan. And you know why? Winning wasnt so clear at the beginning. Nobody knew how it would blow up. I know the first thought i had when i heard about NPO and OV clashing was that we would either let SF get destroyed or get destroyed with them. It was natural we tried everything in our power to weaken the opposing side. A major alliance drawing out early would have brought odds to our side. Of course the TOP-IRON relationship also played a role. You know how this war would have ended if TOP joined the hegemony side. You would all not be here to tell the story.

The only thing he did wrong was claiming Gre would not join should the deal not get through. I can ensure you this would have cause internal riot and revolution. There are means to coup a government in Gremlins and i damn sure would have made use of it, but history disproved that point anyway.

2. "You did the same thing as Polar and therefor deserve the same fate"

ES was a huge dick to many alliances. He did threaten, ridicule and belittle others, always using the power of his allies. It is true that polar mainly got attacked for him, but the final straw was AlmightyGrub saying he would destroy TOP at the first given chance. When did Gremlins become a threat to SF alliances? When did we talk about bringing your demise behind your backs? Our intention was to make our side WIN, not to destroy it. You can believe it or you can not, i dont care anymore.

3. "TOP didnt go nuclear making all other alliances involved take more damage"

Seriously, wtf? This is war. Every alliance fights a war differently, and if you want to have them on your side, you better respect their way of playing the game. TOP, to my knowledge, never sanctioned first strike nukes in any war i know of. If you really think they care about the #1 spot then you definately never spoke to any one of them and your opinion lacks any facts to base it on.

This post is a great post so I quoted it.

HellAngel

[Krull]

and yours by entering on Karma's side.

The war was won by the time they entered.

[HellAngel]

So they joined the war on the opposite side to save IRON's $@!? Because that's what I was responding to.

Your post doesnt make a lot of sense then, but maybe im just not seeing it. Please elaborate.

[Death666Angel]

And you definitely saved RIA's asses by making their middle ranks eat WRC nukes because you didn't actually nuke, so they ended up with guys with 20 nukes and a ridiculous amount of tech on their middle tier nations.

If RIAs nations are unhappy about eating our WRC nukes, there are individual surrender terms and I am sure Echelon gov't would accept if RIA surrender and give them reasonable terms (probably white peace) .

[Poobah]

The war was won by the time they entered.

If TOP had entered on the Hegemony side, I think that Hegemony could have won. When Argent entered, I was hoping that we got countered because us being attacked would be 1 more reason for TOP to be on the Karma side.