AbysmalPea Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 If Karma as a whole, as unlikely as that is, established a hegemony and oppressed others, then we would have it coming. Oppressing the NPO is still oppression, which is what a lot of people here fail to fully comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Glaucon Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 What's funny is how people were so outraged when NPO wouldn't give GATO peace until all their banks came out of hippy to be "punished". I bet if NPO was beating someone down and decreed that they would never get peace until they all came out of hippy and reached a certain NS, there would be a huge outcry.-Bama Completely unrelated, but in your nation when a citizen kidnaps someone and holds them hostage for a length of time, is it considered hypocritical for the justice system to imprison the criminal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Oppressing the NPO is still oppression, which is what a lot of people here fail to fully comprehend. Yes, but you could say the same thing about the Judge/jury/w.e judging the murderer. There is a difference. Even still, calling it karma is just a glorified term for vengeance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyber Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Whether they thought those in peace were cowards in the past....that was THEIR ignorance in the past and their illogical negligence, us doing the same makes us no better and equally as illogical. Ejay, I agree that it shouldn't be done, but remember there is some anger for the NPO by a lot of people (much of it warrented), and they want their revenge. All you can do is ask those people to turn it down a notch. I appriciate you asking everyone to keep it civil. You know I want to have your babies, so anything you say has me agreeing with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Completely unrelated, but in your nation when a citizen kidnaps someone and holds them hostage for a length of time, is it considered hypocritical for the justice system to imprison the criminal? Most certainly not. But in my nation, judges are unbiased. Who are you to declare yourself judge and jury of the game? -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amyante Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) The saying is "A tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye", not "A tooth for a tooth, and then an eye for that".Edit: That being said, I don't necessarily think that Karma should adopt the foul practices that's been used in the past, but I do believe that it may be necessary to fight fire with fire. There's no reason why extreme measures against an evil is hypocritical! Okay, trying to stay out of this discussion since it's before my time, but i find that bolded line disturbing. Add a little indoctrination and you'd come awfully close to the mindset that existed in a certain country around the 1940's... Having said that, i'd have to agree with posters like Warrior, Bama and Pea that some people are forgetting what karma is, just seeing it as a bandwagon with a fancy nametag. The whole goal of the Karma War should be to punish NPO for the crimes they have committed, but using fire to fight fire is a dangerous thing. Use too much, and you tip the scales in favor of the NPO again, yourself becoming the oppressor (and subsequently gather bad karma). While i agree it may be necessary at times, the thing with karma is that you need to know when to stop, along with acting in a way that does not bring bad karma on yourself. But that's just my two cents. Edited May 11, 2009 by Amyante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Most certainly not. But in my nation, judges are unbiased. Who are you to declare yourself judge and jury of the game?-Bama What's that philosophy your alliance has been championing for so long? "Might makes right"? We're just trying to treat you fairly under your own moral code, and the same goes for NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbysmalPea Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Yes, but you could say the same thing about the Judge/jury/w.e judging the murderer. There is a difference. Even still, calling it karma is just a glorified term for vengeance. The point of the justice system is rehabilitation and removal of unsavory elements in society, not vengeance. I have no qualms with Karma alliances removing their unsavory element, the NPO, from power. However, whether this war is just vengeance or karmic fate remains to be determined. After all, no surrender terms have been accepted as of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-money Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 It's time we got smarter on the OWF. Taunting PM nations was a tool NPO used to punish people. It is and always has been smart strategy. They used so many of these tools. So many people on the OWF ate that up and said "Yes look at those cowards." Stop being sheep and start thinking for yourself. Stop buying into everything that is said here. Those tools included calling alliances WAE, banning people who did not worship them or who even just spoke out against them. They used that #*%$ on every opponent in every war. FAN were not cowards, GATO was not the WAE. Now they have people who every time somebody mentions punishing NPO for their crimes you here the cry of "hypocrites you are just as bad as them." "You are just the same as NPO." I call BS. Nobody is calling for NPO to spend a year under a Viceroy. Nobody is calling for Moo to be banned from the game. Nobody is calling for the disbandment of NPO. So just keep your baby cries of hypocrites to yourself because we are no longer falling for your lame tricks. The propaganda may work on the weak minded but not on the rest of us. Smarten up and see what they are trying to do with this crap and say NO you are full of BS and I am calling you out on it. Karma is not the same. NPO can be punished for their crimes and it is not hypocrisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyber Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Most certainly not. But in my nation, judges are unbiased. Who are you to declare yourself judge and jury of the game?-Bama The excecutionar ofcourse (This was meant to be a joke. I was going to also put Judge Dread.) Honestly Bama, might still makes right, we've all commited mistakes and treated someone badly. And if there is no one to enforce it, which Planet Bob to this date does not have a neutral menace that goes about judgeing alliances, it comes down to individual alliances and their allies dispensing their justice as far as they can. Why argue this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 What's that philosophy your alliance has been championing for so long? "Might makes right"? We're just trying to treat you fairly under your own moral code, and the same goes for NPO. I don't believe TPF's current government has ever championed that principle. Face it: Slayer's government no longer exists. Now, I know we're not going to get easy terms. I accept that. I also know that we're going to get beat up for a while. I accept that too. I chose to join an alliance that I knew was in a losing war and would be for some time. I'm prepared to go to ZI for that decision. Everyone here is prepared to go to ZI for TPF's actions, for crimes real or imagined. But still, the TPF of Mhawk is hardly the TPF of Slayer. As much as I love Slayer, Mhawk is a different leader in most every way. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 A hypocrite of a hypocrite becomes another hypocrite to a hypocrite... Man I lost myself in all those hypocrites..The point being that in one way of another somebody somewhere will find something hypocritical about another individuals actions, beliefs, and overall way of life. Hypocrisy is an existent that will always turn around on itself and the cycle will never end. That is human nature. One could argue that what I'm saying is also hypocritical and have a valid point on it and another could argue on the hypocritical nature of what the said person argued was hypocritical in this said post. The bottom line is that everybody's way of life, moralities, style, etc etc are different and overall no two people are the same--even twins, triplets, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I don't believe TPF's current government has ever championed that principle. Face it: Slayer's government no longer exists. Now, I know we're not going to get easy terms. I accept that. I also know that we're going to get beat up for a while. I accept that too. I chose to join an alliance that I knew was in a losing war and would be for some time. I'm prepared to go to ZI for that decision. Everyone here is prepared to go to ZI for TPF's actions, for crimes real or imagined. But still, the TPF of Mhawk is hardly the TPF of Slayer. As much as I love Slayer, Mhawk is a different leader in most every way.-Bama I agree with you on this, but you're preaching to deaf ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcdt94 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 It's time we got smarter on the OWF. Taunting PM nations was a tool NPO used to punish people. It is and always has been smart strategy. They used so many of these tools. So many people on the OWF ate that up and said "Yes look at those cowards." Stop being sheep and start thinking for yourself.Stop buying into everything that is said here. Those tools included calling alliances WAE, banning people who did not worship them or who even just spoke out against them. They used that #*%$ on every opponent in every war. FAN were not cowards, GATO was not the WAE. Now they have people who every time somebody mentions punishing NPO for their crimes you here the cry of "hypocrites you are just as bad as them." "You are just the same as NPO." I call BS. Nobody is calling for NPO to spend a year under a Viceroy. Nobody is calling for Moo to be banned from the game. Nobody is calling for the disbandment of NPO. So just keep your baby cries of hypocrites to yourself because we are no longer falling for your lame tricks. The propaganda may work on the weak minded but not on the rest of us. Smarten up and see what they are trying to do with this crap and say NO you are full of BS and I am calling you out on it. Karma is not the same. NPO can be punished for their crimes and it is not hypocrisy. Best post in this thread, I'm surprised to see he has so few posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbysmalPea Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Now they have people who every time somebody mentions punishing NPO for their crimes you here the cry of "hypocrites you are just as bad as them." "You are just the same as NPO." I call BS. Nobody is calling for NPO to spend a year under a Viceroy. Nobody is calling for Moo to be banned from the game. Nobody is calling for the disbandment of NPO. The problem with this is that many people actually are calling for some of these things to happen. I'll pull up a couple of posts myself if you can't find any examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I don't believe TPF's current government has ever championed that principle. Face it: Slayer's government no longer exists. Hello. I was in the New Polar Order last July. You guys set the precedent for your own destruction shortly after. I have no sympathy. I like mhawk. I respect him and know he's a lot different from Slayer. But he's not different enough to have detached from its hanger-on position on NPO's underbelly. Maybe, if you wanted to avoid this fate, you should have put more effort into rebuilding the image of your alliance and its diplomatic status rather than jumping at Vox shadows and following electron sponge around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcdt94 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 The problem with this is that many people actually are calling for some of these things to happen. I'll pull up a couple of posts myself if you can't find any examples. The problem with this is that the crimes committed against Digiterra by the NPO are greater than that of all other alliances that have ever existed thus validating any and all punishments called for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Hello. I was in the New Polar Order last July. You guys set the precedent for your own destruction shortly after. I have no sympathy. Citadel pushed for NpO's destruction more than TPF did, if you're alluding to the War of the Coalition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Hello. I was in the New Polar Order last July. You guys set the precedent for your own destruction shortly after. I have no sympathy.I like mhawk. I respect him and know he's a lot different from Slayer. But he's not different enough to have detached from its hanger-on position on NPO's underbelly. Maybe, if you wanted to avoid this fate, you should have put more effort into rebuilding the image of your alliance and its diplomatic status rather than jumping at Vox shadows and following electron sponge around. Polar got hit because people wanted revenge for Sponge. It was wrong, but not only was TPF under different government last July and August, but TPF didn't take part in the attack on Polar. So don't say "we" set a precedent. This is one of the things that galls me on these forums. Anyone allied to NPO is a puppet/hanger-on/etc. I believe Mhawk has shown that he is a true friend of NPO, rather than a hanger-on (example: LoSS), when he left TPF to fight for NPO because he thought there was no support in TPF for backing NPO up. He had an obligation to a friend and was going to honor it no matter what. That's true friendship, not being a hanger-on. -Bama EDIT: and as Mogar said, Citadel and others who were directly involved against Polar now get a free pass because they've "seen the light". Edited May 11, 2009 by BamaBuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Wow, I made sure I took as much damage as possible during the war so Zenith's members didn't think I was shirking my duties. I couldn't imagine sitting in peace mode during a war I authorized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Citadel pushed for NpO's destruction more than TPF did, if you're alluding to the War of the Coalition. Typical. Always casting blame everywhere else. Your esteemed leader was foaming at the mouth before, during, and after, viciously eager to tear at the shadow of sponge. You think I don't know what happened and who is responsible? I do. Polar got hit because people wanted revenge for Sponge. It was wrong, but not only was TPF under different government last July and August, but TPF didn't take part in the attack on Polar. So don't say "we" set a precedent.This is one of the things that galls me on these forums. Anyone allied to NPO is a puppet/hanger-on/etc. I believe Mhawk has shown that he is a true friend of NPO, rather than a hanger-on (example: LoSS), when he left TPF to fight for NPO because he thought there was no support in TPF for backing NPO up. He had an obligation to a friend and was going to honor it no matter what. That's true friendship, not being a hanger-on. -Bama EDIT: and as Mogar said, Citadel and others who were directly involved against Polar now get a free pass because they've "seen the light". No, instead you were giving declarations of support for GGA who attacked Hyperion without any casus belli whatsoever and pounding on the C&G alliances, giving TDSM8 terms so harsh that they eventually were forced to disband. Nice, clean conscience with that one, eh? Just a day of the week like any other, for TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Typical. Always casting blame everywhere else. Your esteemed leader was foaming at the mouth before, during, and after, viciously eager to tear at the shadow of sponge. You think I don't know what happened and who is responsible? I do.No, instead you were giving declarations of support for GGA who attacked Hyperion without any casus belli whatsoever and pounding on the C&G alliances, giving TDSM8 terms so harsh that they eventually were forced to disband. Nice, clean conscience with that one, eh? Just a day of the week like any other, for TPF. And how many current TPF government officials were in government then? I'll be the first to tell you that Hyperion and Polar were hit for two of the worst CBs of all time. But again, the TPF government that supported those CBs no longer exists. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Typical. Always casting blame everywhere else. Your esteemed leader was foaming at the mouth before, during, and after, viciously eager to tear at the shadow of sponge. You think I don't know what happened and who is responsible? I do.No, instead you were giving declarations of support for GGA who attacked Hyperion without any casus belli whatsoever and pounding on the C&G alliances, giving TDSM8 terms so harsh that they eventually were forced to disband. Nice, clean conscience with that one, eh? Just a day of the week like any other, for TPF. Stumpy and I are opposite sides of most things, but I doubt he would even hold me as the reason TDSM8 disbanded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I know what's pathetic, this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 And how many current TPF government officials were in government then? I'll be the first to tell you that Hyperion and Polar were hit for two of the worst CBs of all time. But again, the TPF government that supported those CBs no longer exists.-Bama As I said, your alliance should have made more attempts at correcting its path from its past perhaps in place of chasing circles around the mulberry bush with Vox. You stuck with each and every one of those alliances you supported them over the continued months and months of incompetence, arrogance, and tyranny. You remained in Q, maintained your treaties, were in on the planning for this war, and fight for them now. Sorry, it reeks of insincerity. Stumpy and I are opposite sides of most things, but I doubt he would even hold me as the reason TDSM8 disbanded. Debatable, I suppose. TDSM8 was tiny and the war and surrender terms certainly didn't help. 100 tech deals was an insane amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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