Public Notice from Karma

[FiremandDave]

Oh cool, don't even try to argue against me. Just insult me, that's a perfectly good way to win an argument. The only reason NPO has made it as far as they have is because they are damn good with politics. Apparently that didn't save you this time though, better luck next time.

I don't enjoy your subtle hints of racism either. You can take that elsewhere as it does not belong on these forums.

Here's what Lord of Destruction means by "drinking the Kool Aid"

http://www.raptureready.com/rr-kool-aid.html

[lcdt94]

I don't enjoy you calling me a racist. I do not 'hint' at anything. I say exactly what I mean. This may be a new tactic to you as you may be used to seeing everyone try to be cloak and dagger with what they say, but I do not do that. It is a waste of my time.

Take your accusations elsewhere, as that doesn't belong here, or anywhere else.

Would you care to explain your Kool-Aid reference, then?

[Delta1212]

Would you care to explain your Kool-Aid reference, then?

It's a reference to a famous cult.

[Bob Janova]

These are fair terms for those who don't want to fight the war. Much respect to the many Hegemon nations who do not wish to surrender individually and who are continuing to fight for what they believe in.

[Lord of Destruction]

It's a reference to a famous cult.

Thank you, Delta.

I suggest you read this to understand the reference, lcdt94. Next time, don't assume I'm being a racist.

[lcdt94]

It's a reference to a famous cult.

Oh, thanks for clarifying that.

[bloopbleep38]

Oh cool, don't even try to argue against me. Just insult me, that's a perfectly good way to win an argument. The only reason NPO has made it as far as they have is because they are damn good with politics. Apparently that didn't save you this time though, better luck next time.

I don't enjoy your subtle hints of racism either. You can take that elsewhere as it does not belong on these forums.

Its not racist he's talking bout jim jones. Who is a famous cult leader. Cyanide spiked koolaid is yummy mmmm good/

Edited April 26, 2009 by bloopbleep38

[Nonvalid]

These are fair terms for those who don't want to fight the war. Much respect to the many Hegemon nations who do not wish to surrender individually and who are continuing to fight for what they believe in.

I'm glad to see there are some that are still able to show respect.

I may be wrong in my assumption, but I don't believe the 'Hegemon nations' prefer to be referred to as such. I for one am a Pacifician. No more, no less.

[Delta1212]

I'm glad to see there are some that are still able to show respect.

I may be wrong in my assumption, but I don't believe the 'Hegemon nations' prefer to be referred to as such. I for one am a Pacifician. No more, no less.

It's just easier to use Hegemony to refer to everyone on your side since that's what your side has taken to calling itself. (Why it adopted that name as its own I could not tell you).

[Lord of Destruction]

It's just easier to use Hegemony to refer to everyone on your side since that's what your side has taken to calling itself. (Why it adopted that name as its own I could not tell you).

Actually, I believe that's just a default name

[Ogaden]

It's just easier to use Hegemony to refer to everyone on your side since that's what your side has taken to calling itself. (Why it adopted that name as its own I could not tell you).

We have never referred to ourselves by such a name. Our alliance is the New Pacific Order, and our alliance blocs are The Continuum and One Vision.

The Hegemony is a name that our opponents have chosen for it's negative connotations, and it is not a neutral name.

[Tulafaras]

All this whining in this thread is unbecomming. No one is forcing anyone to accept these terms.

The point of these terms is not if they are necessary (frankly since a few nations have already accepted them, they obviously are) the point is are they fair?

They seem pretty much standard for individual terms so yes they seem to be fair. If you are so confident no one will give up anyway, then why are you complaining so much?

Ps: Might i remind you that in the UJW similar terms were posted by both sides within 2 days of the start of the war?

[Nonvalid]

It's just easier to use Hegemony to refer to everyone on your side since that's what your side has taken to calling itself. (Why it adopted that name as its own I could not tell you).

I'm honestly unable to locate the first use of it. I dought it is the 'Title' we wish to be given. I can understand the usage, and that some of my fellow Pacificians also use the name. For me, it would seem 'Karmas' attempt to spin information around to thier benefit. (Reference to my sig.)

[Delta1212]

We have never referred to ourselves by such a name. Our alliance is the New Pacific Order, and our alliance blocs are The Continuum and One Vision.

The Hegemony is a name that our opponents have chosen for it's negative connotations, and it is not a neutral name.

You might want to tell that to the people making your side's propaganda images and the guys who named the channel #hegemony. I'm still confused as to why they accepted the label we gave them.

[Tulafaras]

I'm honestly unable to locate the first use of it. I dought it is the 'Title' we wish to be given. I can understand the usage, and that some of my fellow Pacificians also use the name. For me, it would seem 'Karmas' attempt to spin information around to thier benefit. (Reference to my sig.)

easy solution, think of a different name for your side and get back to us with your request. Considering how many different alliances are on both sides i think no one can be bothered to refer to them individually.

[Nonvalid]

All this whining in this thread is unbecomming. No one is forcing anyone to accept these terms.

The point of these terms is not if they are necessary (frankly since a few nations have already accepted them, they obviously are) the point is are they fair?

They seem pretty much standard for individual terms so yes they seem to be fair. If you are so confident no one will give up anyway, then why are you complaining so much?

Ps: Might i remind you that in the UJW similar terms were posted by both sides within 2 days of the start of the war?

I do believe the terms are 'fair'. If anything, I personally encourge those that wish to escape the war to surrender.

Those that abandon thier comrades in a time of war are not wanted. Thier absense only makes us stronger.

[paultl]

The most persistent sound which reverberates through men's history is the beating of war drums. ~Arthur Koestler

Onwards, Pacifica will prevail

Basic Karma:-

We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.

You are not me, therefore you are not my karma. hence i can not surrender to you, and i personally never will

[lcdt94]

I'm glad to see there are some that are still able to show respect.

I may be wrong in my assumption, but I don't believe the 'Hegemon nations' prefer to be referred to as such. I for one am a Pacifician. No more, no less.

Sorry, but you aren't special enough to be referred to as a Pacifican. You're a nation fighting for the Hegemony, get over it. Can you imagine if the 40+ alliances fighting for Karma insisted upon being referred to by their alliance names?

[Ogaden]

You might want to tell that to the people making your side's propaganda images and the guys who named the channel #hegemony. I'm still confused as to why they accepted the label we gave them.

It's not insulting, and we never really had a name for our metabloc before. It's not really accurate but who cares.

[Ogaden]

Sorry, but you aren't special enough to be referred to as a Pacifican. You're a nation fighting for the Hegemony, get over it. Can you imagine if the 40+ alliances fighting for Karma insisted upon being referred to by their alliance names?

Show some respect. It is his right and the flag he fights under.

[Miriais]

Forget that, i stop when my alliance says so. No surrender.

[lcdt94]

Show some respect. It is his right and the flag he fights under.

When this war is over I'll happily refer to him as a Pacifican, but for now he is a part of the Hegemony coalition.

[Nonvalid]

easy solution, think of a different name for your side and get back to us with your request. Considering how many different alliances are on both sides i think no one can be bothered to refer to them individually.

Would you then consider the NSO part of Karma? I believe Ivan would say otherwise.

In the end this war will likely be named: Karma vs NPO (and allies) by the majority of CN. But to Pacificians it will be known as the Second Patriotic War.

[Augustus Autumn]

I have trouble seeing how anyone can have a problem with these terms, based upon the terms themselves. They are quite fair and equitable, and in fact are lighter for the most part then has been seen in many wars past.

For what it's worth, my take on the situation.

I don't beleive anyone's problem rests with the specificities of the terms (outside of the very reasonable discussion concerning the classification of factories). Rather, the problem rests with the manner in which these terms were offered and the timing of said terms.

As many have noted across the Cyberverse have noted, the "Karma" movement is not in fact a unified set of beliefs codified in a document and signed by member alliances (the "Karma" movement defined here). Rather, the alliances making up this coalition have demonstrated over the course of history many different points of view. Even within this discussion it appears that the interpretations of these terms are unclear. Without clear signatories on the terms being offered and a clear understanding of what precisely is being offered people are unlikely to flock to accept them.

As for the timing, it could certainly be inferred that they are being offered as a means of undermining the morale of the "Hegemony" (similarly ill-defined) with the intent of sapping away numerical strength of nations as well as being a sort of potential economic form of warfare. By offering a lienient set of terms while their own parent alliances are exhorting these nations to fight, the "Karma" movement is giving a powerful incentive to simply slip away from the war. The departure of these nations means, in turn, potential increased difficulties in the establishment of internal trade rings and the acquisition of war funds and/or technology which would enable alliances to carry on.

As to the first point, this will require some thought to correctly address. As to the second, if true, this is a very astute move and deserves praise for its creativity.

That all being said, I doubt that I shall be accepting such terms. While I appreciate them, I have pledged my service to the Initiative first and feel that I can do more good there than I could as a prisoner of war in this conflict.

For those who took the time to read this, thank you.

When this war is over I'll happily refer to him as a Pacifican, but for now he is a part of the Hegemony coalition.

I feel that it is worth noting that, no matter what coalition one belongs to, they are still members of a sovereign alliance. Affording the proper forms of address would be an excellent demonstration of the respect that those alliances belonging to the "Karma" movement have endorsed.

Edit: To address lcdt94's comment.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Tokugawa Mitsukuni

[Nonvalid]

Sorry, but you aren't special enough to be referred to as a Pacifican. You're a nation fighting for the Hegemony, get over it. Can you imagine if the 40+ alliances fighting for Karma insisted upon being referred to by their alliance names?

Those I serve, the brothers that share the blood I have shed, they are special, they are the heroes of this war. And the men that have remained true to themselves and thier word deserve to be shown respect. (On both sides)

Karma has established it's own name. If any alliance would prefer to be acknowledged separatly, I can honor that request.