Doitzel Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 This war is a failure of Diplomacy, a failure to succeed in the art of unilateral submission. Well you're right there: you guys really shouldn't have attacked in the middle of negotiations and then stabbed your allies in the back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athenius Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Well you're right there: you guys really shouldn't have attacked in the middle of negotiations and then stabbed your allies in the back! 'Debate and Diplomacy' is the 'Resolve of Catastrophic Conflict'; yet at times, the 'Catastrophic Conflict' is the 'Resolve of Diplomacy and Debate'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I am an evil nazi who wants to watch the world burn. Also, no. Absolutely this. You call me a fascist? I thank you for the compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 This thread is indeed "a travesty behind measure and thought." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 All this talk of bondage is sure to get a few people excited. That was hot - what are we talking about again? Oh Fascist Ideals - thats right - wait wut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I want to topple the current ebil fascists and set up my own conglomerate of ebil fascists in their stead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodrow Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 This thread is supposed to be propaganda or something I assume, but to be absolutely truthful, I haven't the slightest idea what he's talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maksim Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 You lost me from the first paragraph with your utter lack of objectivity, speaking of "... Fascism and her 'Institutes of Evil.'" You've taken this concept and stated it brings about a number of effects contrary to freedom and Pacifican ideals, yet you've wholly failed to define its presence here on Digiterra, as well as the term itself. It exists as no more than a vague generalisation in your writing. Likewise, you fail to define why the New Pacific Order embodies Democratic Socialism and 'progress', the former requiring proof, the latter being subjective and irrelevant. In regard to progress, I believe Mises' statement from Interventionism, An Economic Analysis to be quite apropos: "Who is 'reactionary' and who is 'progressive'? Reaction against an unwise policy is not to be condemned. And progress towards chaos is not to be commended. Nothing should find acceptance just because it is new, radical, and fashionable. 'Orthodoxy' is not an evil if the doctrine on which the 'orthodox' stand is sound." Your 'progress', barbed with your leaders' deceit and oppression, fully merits reactionary action, as is currently occurring. The alliance you declare the beacon of freedom and progress has clarified itself as their complete antithesis: restricting and decreasing game membership, disbanding alliances at its will, oppressing freedom of speech, and an array of other violations of anything truly meriting the label of 'freedom'. Rather, if you are looking for Fascism on Digiterra, I'd recommend a mirror to permit better analysis of your jack-booted selves. As was stated earlier, your propaganda, saturated with simple generalisations and mindless self-glorification, appears best suited for your alliance forums. Also, I would recommend reviewing the grammar in the OP: you've botched a number of conjugations, specifically when referring to 'the Fascist'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athenius Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I beg to differ. You have a lack of the overall usage. Study 'Francoism' and the very 'Progression' of Pacifica. People are only 'booted' because they refuse to embrace a 'collective whole of progression'. You my friend, are sadly mistaken on your comments! Read the other 'Joint Articles' before you go bashing on something you obviously have no grasp on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He Who Has No Name Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 For a minute, I thought Vlad had posted this. OP, if you are still attempting to qualify ideologies as "fascist" or "socialist", you're stuck in the mud of political philosophy. There is tyranny, and there is liberty. Stop typing so much, and enjoy watching tyranny die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwonam Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I don't know if anyone pointed this out already, but, uhm, do you remember what exactly you did/are doing to FAN? Keeping people in ZI seems very similar to concentration camps. Regardless of whether or not you understand fascism beyond the dictionary definition, the NPO seems to follow these principles more than other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Litler Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) I do not support fascism in any form, and would make any fascist alliance added to my hit list. Fascism/Monarchy mixed with democracy, ruler leads forever, other positions are elected, and every alliance needs a Parliament style thing as well for your members to voice their opinion. You change your politics more frequently than you change your different Boxxy signatures. Edited April 25, 2009 by Tom Litler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogenes Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) Fascism \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\ Function: noun Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces Date: 1921 1) often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition 2) a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism Considering that the NPO seems to promote the well-being of its alliance above the well-being of others, is headed by what is essentially a dictator, has previously monitored the content of these forums and has suppressed its opposition more times than I can count, I think that you may have mistaken who is and who is not "fascist". In regards to the poll, though, I voted "No, I am an evil conglomeration of fascist principles and will continue to progress until all is under the bonds of a fascist state!" Edited April 25, 2009 by Quiziotle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athenius Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Considering that the NPO seems to promote the well-being of its alliance above the well-being of others, is headed by what is essentially a dictator, has previously monitored the content of these forums and has suppressed its opposition more times than I can count, I think that you may have mistaken who is and who is not "fascist". Pacifica believes in 'Authenticity' and 'Just Conformity'; a FAR cry from the principles of 'Fascism'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriais Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I find it so entertaining that because we don't agree with you and we fight againt you we are facists. Could it be more juvenile? :lol: If being good at the game means NPO are facists, then i suppose they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Pacifica believes in 'Authenticity' and 'Just Conformity'; a FAR cry from the principles of 'Fascism'! I understand why you thought this would be a good idea but frankly think you are hurting your own cause. By all means though, carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athenius Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I find it so entertaining that because we don't agree with you and we fight againt you we are facists. Could it be more juvenile? :lol: If being good at the game means NPO are facists, then i suppose they are. Like I have said before, an 'Evil Conglomeration'. It seem to me that the enemies have no foundation of 'Discipline' or care for a fellow Comrade; or an understand what 'True Diplomacy' is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athenius Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I understand why you thought this would be a good idea but frankly think you are hurting your own cause.By all means though, carry on. NOT trying to make a cause. I am 'stating' facts and how to resolve the 'travesty and tyranny' of the enemies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Tolkien Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) And you didn't follow the definition at all. Well, since you want to get into an intellectual debate, and since I've been keeping the Boiler Room at arm's length, this'll be a very liberating reprieve. The etymology of the word fascism is in essence the perfect fit for the ideology itself. Fascism was named as such due to the Mussolini's use of the fasces as a symbol, which dates to Roman times. In Roman times, a fasces (derived from the Latin word fascis, or bundle) was in essence an axe with bundles of sticks tied around it. The symbolism of the fasces as intended by Mussolini was quite obvious: it represents strength in unity: the state, as the axe, would never break, so long as the people, symbolized by the sticks around it, were there to defend it. That is in essence, all fascism is: intense nationalism and jingoism; the promotion of the state over the individual. In essence, it is the polar opposite of Marxist ideologies (from Socialism to Communism to Anarchism), where the individual is promoted over everything else, and is also greatly opposed to liberal democracy (rather obvious, as fascism developed as an alternative to the liberalism of the Western Allies). Fascism promotes the restrictions of personal rights for the good, and in defense of, the state, or nation. Now see the difference between the definition of fascism and your OP stump speech? Now that we know what fascism represents, let us point out what fascism is not. It is not "evil" (evil is a societal/individual viewpoint, and is honestly a stupid and childish way of judging anything: because depending on the society, virtually anything can be labeled as "evil"). Fascism is the antithesis of liberalism, and something I, as a social liberal, oppose with every fiber of my being...yet it is not "evil", simply an opposite viewpoint. Neither does fascism actively promote war, disunity, or all those other buzzwords you decided to throw in there. Ironically, and completely contrary to your OP, fascism developed as an ideology to bring together complete unity and peace within the state. Now we get to your point decrying the New Pacific Order as a Social Democracy and calling everyone else fascists. All I have to say is...what sort of strange, twisted, mirror universe have I stepped into? And why is everyone suddenly sporting a goatee... The New Pacific Order is something no one can quite frankly call democratic, by any stretch of the word. A democratic system requires the people, or in this case, the members, to hold ultimate power, and to have the ultimate say, whether directly (in the form of direct democracy) or indirectly (in the form of indirect/representative democracy, or a republic). That I know of, the New Pacific Order has never held elections for the position of Emperor before: who ultimately, with the IOs, hold the power (and really makes it a dictatorship). The New Pacific Order can best be described as an autocratic meritocracy (and, if you were willing to generalize, fascist). To call it a democracy is a fallacy: nor is it also correct to call it social. In general, there are very few issues or policies concerning the New Pacific Order that would make it even eligible to be considered a social democracy. Nor does it's track record in foreign policy or on player rights actually support that either... Whereas quite a few within Pacifica may view it as socially democratic...belief does not necessarily correspond to reality. Similarly, the so-called "Communist" states of the 20th century, with very few exceptions, were neither Communist or Marxist. Now on to Karma. Karma as a bloc cannot be considered fascist: nor can the alliances aligned with it. I'm actually sure quite a few of them are offended you would even dream of making them out to be fascist pig-dogs (sorry INT, sorry LSF, sorry commies, you're actually fascists in disguise ). The vast majority of alliances on both sides actually hold elections (of varying degrees). Since alliances are the closest approximations for nations, it's not really rational to label the entire Karma bloc as "fascist" or "anti-democratic" or whatever it is you view them as. Karma is in essence knocking Pacifica from it's position as the leading power in the world hegemony: a hegemony that quite frankly has done everything you've postulated. Stripped alliances of the ability to exist entirely, used fear as a weapon to silence the opposition, and deprived alliances of the freedom to exist peacefully and independently. I mean GPA was TOTALLY never attacked. Nope. Not at all. Then the rest is unconcealed pro-Pacifican propaganda, which really doesn't seem to be realistic at all. As for the quotes: perhaps you should use relevant quotes, that actually mean something. Socialists saying bad things about Fascism. WHY I NEVER! If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. John Stuart Mill This would be more relevant. Mostly because you just condemned Pacifica as being anything but fascist with your: People are only 'booted' because they refuse to embrace a 'collective whole of progression'. You my friend, are sadly mistaken on your comments! Read the other 'Joint Articles' before you go bashing on something you obviously have no grasp on! Also: JUST Conformity? Everyone believes their standards of conformity are "JUST", so you're just shooting yourself in the foot and making Pacifica look even more Fascist. Edited April 25, 2009 by Tolkien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maksim Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I beg to differ. You have a lack of the overall usage. Study 'Francoism' and the very 'Progression' of Pacifica. People are only 'booted' because they refuse to embrace a 'collective whole of progression'. You my friend, are sadly mistaken on your comments! Read the other 'Joint Articles' before you go bashing on something you obviously have no grasp on! Again, your leaders are able to define the vague requirements of ideas such as embracing the 'collective whole of progression' at their leisure. Likewise, ideological self-definitions are entirely irrelevant, as they will, time and time again, define themselves favourably. Your ideology may preach its support of freedom and mutual progress, but its manipulative nature and betrayal of its allies (in favour of annihilating them and subsequently subjugating them, or removing their right to assemble as an alliance) have been displayed, at this point, repetitively. Anyhow, keep drinking the Kool-Aid, bud -- you seem to have it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Litler Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Like I have said before, an 'Evil Conglomeration'. It seem to me that the enemies have no foundation of 'Discipline' or care for a fellow Comrade; or an understand what 'True Diplomacy' is! Just drop this whole act. You're really not much more charismatic than Vladimir and being in the alliance you are in, which belongs to the group of alliances that it does, you have no room to speak of True Diplomacy with the first letters capitalized and the former word (true) being red given that your allies' (within the NPO and without) idea of diplomacy is coercion which can lead to nothing less than what you want. I won't try to claim any moral high ground; I can't say I blame you for your conduct. However, your denial of your true nature is shameful and cowardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Tolkien Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Again, your leaders are able to define the vague requirements of ideas such as embracing the 'collective whole of progression' at their leisure. Likewise, ideological self-definitions are entirely irrelevant, as they will, time and time again, define themselves favourably. Your ideology may preach its support of freedom and mutual progress, but its manipulative nature and betrayal of its allies (in favour of annihilating them and subsequently subjugating them, or removing their right to assemble as an alliance) have been displayed, at this point, repetitively.Anyhow, keep drinking the Kool-Aid, bud -- you seem to have it down. I honestly don't think there's hope. The NPO...a Social Democracy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athenius Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 And you didn't follow the definition at all. Well, since you want to get into an intellectual debate, and since I've been keeping the Boiler Room at arm's length, this'll be a very liberating reprieve.The etymology of the word fascism is in essence the perfect fit for the ideology itself. Fascism was named as such due to the Mussolini's use of the fasces as a symbol, which dates to Roman times. In Roman times, a fasces (derived from the Latin word fascis, or bundle) was in essence an axe with bundles of sticks tied around it. The symbolism of the fasces as intended by Mussolini was quite obvious: it represents strength in unity: the state, as the axe, would never break, so long as the people, symbolized by the sticks around it, were there to defend it. That is in essence, all fascism is: intense nationalism and jingoism; the promotion of the state over the individual. In essence, it is the polar opposite of Marxist ideologies (from Socialism to Communism to Anarchism), where the individual is promoted over everything else, and is also greatly opposed to liberal democracy (rather obvious, as fascism developed as an alternative to the liberalism of the Western Allies). Fascism promotes the restrictions of personal rights for the good, and in defense of, the state, or nation. Now see the difference between the definition of fascism and your OP stump speech? Now that we know what fascism represents, let us point out what fascism is not. It is not "evil" (evil is a societal/individual viewpoint, and is honestly a stupid and childish way of judging anything: because depending on the society, virtually anything can be labeled as "evil"). Fascism is the antithesis of liberalism, and something I, as a social liberal, oppose with every fiber of my being...yet it is not "evil", simply an opposite viewpoint. Neither does fascism actively promote war, disunity, or all those other buzzwords you decided to throw in there. Ironically, and completely contrary to your OP, fascism developed as an ideology to bring together complete unity and peace within the state. Now we get to your point decrying the New Pacific Order as a Social Democracy and calling everyone else fascists. All I have to say is...what sort of strange, twisted, mirror universe have I stepped into? And why is everyone suddenly sporting a goatee... The New Pacific Order is something no one can quite frankly call democratic, by any stretch of the word. A democratic system requires the people, or in this case, the members, to hold ultimate power, and to have the ultimate say, whether directly (in the form of direct democracy) or indirectly (in the form of indirect/representative democracy, or a republic). That I know of, the New Pacific Order has never held elections for the position of Emperor before: who ultimately, with the IOs, hold the power (and really makes it a dictatorship.). The New Pacific Order can best be described as an autocratic meritocracy (and, if you were willing to go general beyond belief, fascist). To call it a democracy is a fallacy: nor is it also correct to call it social. In general, there are very few issues or policies concerning the New Pacific Order that would make it even eligible to be considered a social democracy. Nor does it's track record in foreign policy or on player rights actually support that either... Whereas quite a few within Pacifica may view it as socially democratic...belief does not necessarily correspond to reality. Similarly, the so-called "Communist" states of the 20th century, with very few exceptions, were neither Communist or Marxist. Now on to Karma. Karma as a bloc cannot be considered fascist: nor can the alliances aligned with it. I'm actually sure quite a few of them are offended you would even dream of making them out to be fascist pig-dogs (sorry INT, sorry LSF, sorry commies, you're actually fascists in disguise. ). The vast majority of alliances on both sides actually hold elections (of varying degree). Since alliances are the closest approximations for nations, it's not really rational to label the entire Karma bloc as "fascist" or "anti-democratic" or whatever it is you view them as. Karma is in essence knocking Pacifica from it's position as the leading power in the world hegemony: a hegemony that quite frankly has done everything you've postulated. Stripped alliances of the ability to exist entirely, used fear as a weapon to silence the opposition, and deprived alliances of the freedom to exist peacefully and independently. I mean GPA was TOTALLY never attacked. Nope. Not at all. Then the rest is unconcealed pro-Pacifican propaganda, which really doesn't seem to be realistic at all. As for the quotes: perhaps you should use relevant quotes, that actually mean something. Socialists saying bad things about Fascism. WHY I NEVER! If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. John Stuart Mill This would be more relevant. Mostly because you just condemned Pacifica as being anything but fascist with your: Also: JUST Conformity? Everyone believes their standards of conformity are "JUST", so you're just shooting yourself in the foot and making Pacifica look even more Fascist. Haha. Pacifica is 'Democracy' entwined with 'Principles of Conformity'. Having a Central Head and Upper House of Government, in no way 'bars' the expression of the people. People in Pacifica are to 'respect' the State, but also express 'individuality'. Thus 'Francoism' is born! My friend. The enemy is 'fascist' and wants to 'place' a Viceroy over Pacifica and her Allies, to 'suppress' them and to make them 'suffer' at the 'command' of evil principles. Fascism may not define the 'overall' agenda of the enemy, but it does play a 'strong' role. Pacifica is far from 'fascism', she is 'progressive' in all she does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Litler Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 The way you place things in quotations makes you sound like you're being sarcastic; yet when you spout such nonsense, that is not at all hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I never thought I'd see a Kyoon thread in CN. Thanks, guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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