Captain Flinders Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 So, you would make screenshots of every package of aid your alliance is sending? Im sure thats not the way GRAN rolls and it shouldn't be the way to roll at all. This is all about trust, and about trusting to get all of your investments back in the exact way that was agreed to by both parties before even entering said deal. I do wish now that I had taken record of my aid received. But the thing to remember here is that GRAN adamantly defends that they do have evidence of what aid I received. So why don't we all just skip this trust issue and get on with facts and payment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 [...]I never tried to make myself relevant. I took the behind the scenes and rather quiet job of organizing tech within GRAN. It was certainly not I who made this thread so if you have a problem with people making threads about stuff that the CN public probably doesn't care about, talk to the thread creator. [...] I remember a certain treaty cancellation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I do wish now that I had taken record of my aid received. But the thing to remember here is that GRAN adamantly defends that they do have evidence of what aid I received. So why don't we all just skip this trust issue and get on with facts and payment? Okay, I would love to see that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordite Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 An alliance, at least one with a decent econ department, should be keeping track of any and all government sponsored aid transactions, even if only to make sure that everything is proceeding smoothly in a deal and that no one claims they haven't received the money they were due. Screenshots for every transaction aren't necessary, just some record. (OOC: A google spreadsheet works well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akama Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 So, you would make screenshots of every package of aid your alliance is sending? Im sure thats not the way GRAN rolls and it shouldn't be the way to roll at all. This is all about trust, and about trusting to get all of your investments back in the exact way that was agreed to by both parties before even entering said deal. Since they're trying to extort an ex-member who had issues with the way things were run in GRAN, I can't say I really trust the numbers they put up. They changed their charter so ex-members had to pay back twice the money they recieved, only after Captain Flinders was already talking with outworld about leaving GRAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Okay, I would love to see that then. As would I. Though I'm frankly shocked that this escalated to the point of a coalition ZI against me. One moment I'm discussing what is owed, the next there is talk of sanctions, and the next we find ourselves in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) An alliance, at least one with a decent econ department, should be keeping track of any and all government sponsored aid transactions, even if only to make sure that everything is proceeding smoothly in a deal and that no one claims they haven't received the money they were due. Screenshots for every transaction aren't necessary, just some record. (OOC: A google spreadsheet works well) I totally agree. But a spreadsheet might be disputed (could be edited to anyone's linking) - screenshots can not (thats quite a bit harder). Those are the only watertight forms of evidence nowadays - something I regret, I like to believe in trust rather then hard evidence. Edited March 16, 2009 by erikz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijaya Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 1. He tried to overthrow TGE's government a couple months ago. So what? What's in the past is in the past, this is just revenge on TGE's part2. He is a reroll of a very unpopular person. So what? What's in the past is in the past, this is just grasping at straws for a valid CB. Which you don't have. 3. Stole $60million from GRAN. He said he'll pay it back and you know, judging by what I've seen from him around here, he seems respectable and worthy of a chance. $60mil, if its even that amount which I highly doubt it, won't be very easy to pay back. Such pathetic excuses... tsk tsk. I think TGE and GRAN just need more negative publicity. Good job. Best of luck, Flinders. And this from the man who, ghosting TGE, attacked another alliance, and should probably be on at least 2 ZI lists that I can think of. Tsk, tsk. I thought you had turned over a new leaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchboy00 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Nothing like a good "who are you" to make yourself feel important.And really....requesting sanctions? Very weak. I'm not sure who I believe less in this whole sordid affair. There is a whole lot of "lack of credibility" going around. probably so he cant get more nukes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijaya Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) Are you implying Argent has something to do with Captain Flinders? That is how I read it, and I don't care for the implication. I'm not quite sure how you inferred that I was referring to Argent, but that would be an incorrect reading, Sir, and I apologize if what I wrote seemed anything more than a blanket statement. Edited March 16, 2009 by Valdemar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 probably so he cant get more nukes? I do not intend to fight if I can at all help it. Sanctions this early in the negotiations are a very disappointing move especially to my poor trade partners that I only just organized a couple weeks ago. Some are going to lose upwards of 50 million if this cannot be resolved soon and I do feel very sorry for that even though it is largely out of my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernkastel Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) From the OP... ...flinders was given... I am amused. How can one steal something that was given? Even if he did leave, he left. Oh well. He promised to pay it back by signing the thing and they should give him a deadline to pay what he owed (which I highly doubt is $60mil, that's way over exaggerating), even though clearly by the wording, he's not obligated to pay it back since he was given and/or donated this money, not loaned or borrowed. Last I checked... given/donated doesn't equal loan/borrowed. Even if someone betrayed you and ran off with only half the money returned to its righteous owner? They wouldn't get very far if I were involved. I think this mess is just GRAN and TGE bored as heck. A shame Flinders has to be the out for the boredom. Both should be ashamed for what they are doing. TGE for dogpiling and a revenge kick ... and GRAN for well, making an absurd change to their charter and very poor wording on a CB. Edited March 16, 2009 by Balsamic Vinegar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrik Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Props to Stonewall for the Pink skin! (o/ Pink) Props to Flinders for using 'nefarious' in a sentence! Overall those were high-quality screenshots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princessro07 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Props to Stonewall for the Pink skin! (o/ Pink)Props to Flinders for using 'nefarious' in a sentence! Overall those were high-quality screenshots! It's such a beautiful skin, I want it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordite Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I totally agree. But a spreadsheet might be disputed (could be edited to anyone's linking) - screenshots can not (thats quite a bit harder). Those are the only watertight forms of evidence nowadays - something I regret, I like to believe in trust rather then hard evidence. Usually those sort of records indicate the last time they were altered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWConner Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oh, the drama llama has found my good friends in GRAN. Good times. Outworld and Alaric, you know we've always got your collective backs. This Captain Flinders guy sounds like a real winner. Oh, and for clarity, $33 =/= $60. That's just simple math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall14 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well the pink is from my wife and my laptop went out so I have to share the pc with her now...yeah yeah I know...likely story... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steinfeld Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oh, the drama llama has found my good friends in GRAN. Good times. Outworld and Alaric, you know we've always got your collective backs. This Captain Flinders guy sounds like a real winner. Oh, and for clarity, $33 =/= $60. That's just simple math. thats what i said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerbum Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Quick question: When Captain Flinders applied to GRAN, did it say in the charter that those that resign have to pay back double that they are aided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Dracula Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Don't get me wrong with this post, I do think Flinders deserves his fate laid before him by Gran. I guess I've been out of the loop for too long, but why is TGE involved at this stage in this? Flinders hasn't been in TGE for a while, isn't he now Gran's responsibility? Were we just brought back in because of our past relationship with him? Again, Flinders knows he deserves to be on a few ZI lists. I think if he was truthful he would admit that himself. But I don't think at this point TGE should be involved, we've moved on and I thought we put Flinders behind us. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Don't get me wrong with this post, I do think Flinders deserves his fate laid before him by Gran. I guess I've been out of the loop for too long, but why is TGE involved at this stage in this? Flinders hasn't been in TGE for a while, isn't he now Gran's responsibility? Were we just brought back in because of our past relationship with him? Again, Flinders knows he deserves to be on a few ZI lists. I think if he was truthful he would admit that himself. But I don't think at this point TGE should be involved, we've moved on and I thought we put Flinders behind us. Vlad Well stick me in a dress and call me sally, I never thought I'd find myself in wholehearted agreement with Vlad. Especially in a mess of a situation like this. I certainly don't believe I should be on any ZI lists. The rest is good stuff though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germanicus Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Oh, the drama llama has found my good friends in GRAN. Good times. Outworld and Alaric, you know we've always got your collective backs. This Captain Flinders guy sounds like a real winner. Oh, and for clarity, $33 =/= $60. That's just simple math. o/ conner o/VA we love you guys too yes we love the drama llama infact this will be the first time we reach a hundred replies in a GRAN thread. like to give a shout out to flinders, youmaka, and all the other wonderful players that helped us reach this achievement party at #GRAN beer is on us.....unless your flinders we aint picking up your tab anymore we got you on collections. Edited March 19, 2009 by germanicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steinfeld Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 o/ conner o/VA we love you guys too yes we love the drama llama infact this will be the first time we reach a hundred replies in a GRAN thread. like to give a shout out to flinders, youmaka, and all the other wonderful trolls that helped us reach this achievement party at #GRAN beer is on us.....unless your flinders we aint picking up your tab anymore we got you on collections. LOL TO PEACE MODE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordite Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 LOL TO PEACE MODE My, that certainly makes you sound mature, and completely invalidates his claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Wow, screwed us and stole 60 million.... too bad destroying him won't bring back the money/tech Well, GRAN will still be able to loot some of that tech and cash while carrying out the ZI sentence so it's not a *complete* loss, though still a loss none the less. Unfortunate but not a surprise. Have fun, you two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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