My take on Jarheads v New Pacific Order

[bbrownso]

Jimmy, it's not that you can't attack a red sphere nation. You can and the NPO can't stop you. However, they can cause serious repercussions/consequences on your nation for your attacks.

If you want to do something, do it. Just don't come on these forums crying when you get hit.

[Sal Paradise]

If you want to do something, do it. Just don't come on these forums crying when you get hit.

What if what he wants to do is come on these forums and cry when he gets hit?

[Marty McFly]

Okey, so here are my questions.

1. What have all of the original 52 nations done that you feel the need to attack them?

2. What peace options have you provided to those 52 nations?

3. Have you specifically not engaged the rest of the nations in the Jarheads alliance (except the aforementioned 52)

[OOC] And perhaps most importantly,

4. Why do you feel the need to rob the rest of the nations of their community, for which they joined the game? And don't you think that by doing so, you will cause many of them to quit? And if so, would you not agree that this is a negative outcome for CN?

I believe they attacked first, not the NPO or the rest of the alliances at war with them.

[Strykewolf]

As I understand, the Jarheads (made up of many people who watched the Youtube advertisment) and the New Pacific Order (A domininant, well devoloped, and number one alliance in the CN rankings) are at war. Everyone has thier own opinion on this war, and I am here to state mine.

The NPO has always been a domininant power in the CN 'Cyberverse' they have passed many treatys, trying to keep as much peace and harmony throughout CN as they can. The Jarheads, made up of many nations who saw the recruitment video, have plowed through the rankings and now have over 300 members. They grew at an extreme rate because (as I have heard) they ripped of IRON for aid to attack NPO.

I, personally, have decided to support the Jarheads cause. Many people will argue with this desicion I have made. I have reasons why, which are debatable.

1. NPO has been the overwhelming power in the CN for many months. They are practicly unreachable, and they will only get stronger. One strong point is their charter which states that when a red nation is attacked, the attacking nation will be attacked back. This is making many alliances, like my own, fearful of attacking and tech raiding a red nation. Since NPO receives loads of new members everyday, many nations are turning to the red side.

This charter is unjust, and is secretly frustrating many alliance members, like myself. Of all the alliances I have checked out, a vass majority of them has a ban on attacking a red nation. This is just silly. A nation should be able to attack any nation within any alliance without having to worry about the entire NPO squad hounding over them.

2. In the real world, every country has opposers and anti-everything persons. These people can start riots and mini skirmishes, which may lead to the outbreak of war. This is how the civil war happened in the United States. One side got upset, and a war broke out.

I am not sure if there are any rebelious people in the NPO, but if there is, they can easily spread their ideas into other peoples heads in the alliance, causing a rebellion, or maybe even a coup. If the person is caught before something like this happens and is kicked out the the alliance, he/she can still spread his/her ideas throughout CN, and make the NPO look bad for doing such a thing to that member.

3. This is very vague point here, but all great nations/alliances fall at some point or another. Take for example Napoleons French Empire, Hitlers Germany, All of Great Britains Colonys and the Soviet Union. All of these nations used to be (or could have been) giant super powers, but lost power throughout time.

Maybe this is NPOs time. Who knows.

Well there are my points. Maybe they changed your mind about things, maybe they didnt. Either way, this war will decide an important date in history for either alliance.

Comment away if you wish

Ummmm... kay, since you have so many members try this? Hit me. Reason I say that? You need to step back a bit. And there are no other members of my alliance who are in ranger to support me if things become problematic. I'll just have to rely on my warchest....early on. Am pretty sure it will hold up. Take a step back and learn the game.

If you're going to infiltrate a game...go small; learn its mechanics....etc. Then shake things up.

I've only been here a year. But, I gotta say 'yer doin it wrong' Take some time to learn the game.

I don't feel so bad saying this now....

"Bloody Noobs"

[Blacky]

I know you really don't want to get this point, but I'm going to repeat it here anyway.

The only Jarheads we are interested in are the original 52+ nations. All new nations are being given options to avoid this war. If they decide to stay, however, and participate in the war then all bets are off. We have had some interesting exchanges between some of the new nations. They seem like they will be good additions to the game if they decide to stay. It is clear that they are only here because their Runescape friends are here, though.

I always get those two wrong. Carry on defending your undoubtedly just war.

[Timeline]

Jarheads can't hit Pacifica. All they will get are small nations incapable of reaching to the upper echelons. Sure they can obliterate the lower ranks, but that can only go on for so long. The only result I see coming of this is a drop in new active members (being discouraged by the wars) for a few days and thats it.

Think about it, Jarheads have grown very fast, forget taking aid from IRON, but Jarheads seem to have many friends out side of CN that they are bringing to CN, left to grow and grow, how long would it be before they had the support from other allainces and the power to take on NPO.

NPO did a smart thing, hit them before they was able to hit back.

As to the OP.

NPO protection over the red is very simple, they will have a better pool of trades, RED due to the fact NPO controls it in a dictatorship manner lost many members, making it harder for NPO to gain the trades they wish, so by protecting all NONE on red sphere from tech raids have boosted this pool of trades. something i do not agree with how ever, you have to give it up to them, very smart idea.

just to note, I think people who technology raid are pretty lame anyway.

[Marty McFly]

Think about it, Jarheads have grown very fast, forget taking aid from IRON, but Jarheads seem to have many friends out side of CN that they are bringing to CN, left to grow and grow, how long would it be before they had the support from other allainces and the power to take on NPO.

NPO did a smart thing, hit them before they was able to hit back.

just to note, I think people who technology raid are pretty lame anyway.

Sure they can grow in numbers, but how long would it take to get to 80k NS? Even without war its hard and takes months upon months.

[Blacky]

Think about it, Jarheads have grown very fast, forget taking aid from IRON, but Jarheads seem to have many friends out side of CN that they are bringing to CN, left to grow and grow, how long would it be before they had the support from other allainces and the power to take on NPO.

Any new nation could potentially oppose the NPO in the future. Is that a justification to prevent new nations or alliances from growing and playing the game? Obviously it is not.

Just for the record in no way am I endorsing the rantings of the OP.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Blacky

[Alterego]

Jimmy, you admit they lied cheated and stole yet you have taken their side because the damage to their massive enemy in minimal. This is an idiotic take on the events of the past week and is more to do with your hatred of the NPO than interest in the Jarheads plight.

Like other enemies of a certain red alliance you are happy to condone any method of fighting against them and in the same breath slate them for their tactics. This is what infuriates me in CN these days, all the people who are full of honour and fighting for justice who will lie, cheat, steal and more to achieve their alleged noble goal. You, like they are a hypocrite.

This charter is unjust, and is secretly frustrating many alliance members, like myself.

I might say the same about your own. I want to attack people with the same wording in their AA as you and not have others attack me. This is really unjust, think of my right to attack sunny side up or shinpah without fear of retaliation. this is really frustrating.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Alterego

[shahenshah]

1. All new Jarhead nations have been messaged and given option to choose peace or war. It is up to them now, not NPO or any other attacking parties. If Jarheads are tricking the new nations to join an alliance that is being rolled for backstabbing, its not our problem. Contact Jarheads about misinforming the new players. We aren't running a public service organization here. If you are so concerned about Jarheads, instead of whining, why don't you msg them and ask them to take up the peace?

2. What brought war upon Jarheads? They stabbed IRON on its back. They were offered protection, they were offered economic deals..and for what? so they grow and hit our allies in NPO? We wont allow it whether that ally is NPO or anyone else. They broke our trust, we had given them a new chance to start and even assisted them. I'm sorry but we wont allow anyone to run their full course of conspiracy and harm our alliance or our allies funded by our protection and economic deals. We invested our time and money into these guys..and thats how they repaid us. They have squandered two chances..and in a very rash manner. GG.

[Electron Sponge]

I know you really don't want to get this point, but I'm going to repeat it here anyway.

The only Jarheads we are interested in are the original 52+ nations. All new nations are being given options too avoid this war. If they decide to stay, however, and participate in the war then all bets are off. We have had some interesting exchanges between some of the new nations. They seem like they will be good additions to the game if they decide to stay. It is clear that they are only here because their Runescape friends are here, though.

Bit off more than you could chew, didn't you?

[JayOvfEnnay]

Every update Jarheads member count goes up more than 25. EVERY TIME.

I don't think you meant what you wrote there.

But it could also be said, properly,

An alliance should be able to attack any alliance that is conspiring against it without having to worry JimmyChang thinking it is wrong

I don't think you meant you wrote there.

But it could also be said, properly,

JimmyChang can have his own damn opinions expressed in his own god damn way without without Bilrow making a completely contradictory statement without the least bit of explaining.

I'm happy to help, Bilrow, honestly I am.

----

Now to my opinion, Jarheads is going to increase in numbers for a very long time and by the time they finally stop (a long ways down the road) they will have played CN long enough to understand a little more of what they are doing. It will get to the point far before then when NPO realizes that they're lower echelons are outnumbered. Last night a friend of mine combed through the wars between Jarheads and NPO (probably a bit further back in the war pages now, but meh) and it took him four pages of looking to find a single unanarchied NPO nations. Take it from someone who just spent about 47 days fighting their lower NS: They are no less misinformed than any Jarhead. NPO can do one of two things at that point:

a. Abandon them and let them fight on their own, causing many to lose a lot of NS and probably quite a few to quit.

b. Peace out Jarheads (AKA Swallow their pride, that won't work now will it? I'm not so sure Jarheads will take a loss. It'd turn to white peace if anything else. NPO won't do that )

c. Come up with a battle plan of some sort, which is nearly impossible due to vast growing number of Jarheads. They'll only get better over time that they've had to play.

So have fun NPO, this is not a decision I'd like to make. But then again, Jarheads is not an alliance I would DOW on.

EDIT- Also I wouldn't have named it Jarheads Every time I type it I think back to that old comic Jughead or whatever. >_>

Edited March 7, 2009 by Jofna

[JimmyChang]

Ok, thank you for all the responses. I understand that I might be wrong in some cases. This is just my opinion. In real life im known for always rooting for the underdog, so maybe its showing a bit here.

[eragon55]

This is an idiotic take on the events of the past week and is more to do with your hatred of the NPO than interest in the Jarheads plight.

i would question this statement. just because someone takes the other side does not mean they are hater of the other side! just because in RL i vote for one political party not another does not mean that i hate the other party!

moving on....

Like other enemies of a certain red alliance you are happy to condone any method of fighting against them and in the same breath slate them for their tactics. This is what infuriates me in CN these days, all the people who are full of honour and fighting for justice who will lie, cheat, steal and more to achieve their alleged noble goal. You, like they are a hypocrite.

i do not support jarheads actions but i do think that they where declared upon for no good reason. if anyone where to DoW on them it should be IRON not NPO

I might say the same about your own. I want to attack people with the same wording in their AA as you and not have others attack me. This is really unjust, think of my right to attack sunny side up or shinpah without fear of retaliation. this is really frustrating.

where talking about raiding red nations, not attacking nations with something in their AA. the difference between attacking shin or sunny side up is that they have a AA. they won't have ppl protecting them because of their team, but because they are in a alliance

and i would like to also ask what points do you really make about jarheads except that you assume that jimmy hates NPO?

[GOONS]

Jarheads have no point except to cause chaos.

[Homura]

1. NPO has been the overwhelming power in the CN for many months. They are practicly unreachable, and they will only get stronger. One strong point is their charter which states that when a red nation is attacked, the attacking nation will be attacked back. This is making many alliances, like my own, fearful of attacking and tech raiding a red nation. Since NPO receives loads of new members everyday, many nations are turning to the red side.

This charter is unjust, and is secretly frustrating many alliance members, like myself. Of all the alliances I have checked out, a vass majority of them has a ban on attacking a red nation. This is just silly. A nation should be able to attack any nation within any alliance without having to worry about the entire NPO squad hounding over them.

That's not part of the NPO Charter, it was a declared policy. And why do you think it's your right to attack any nation you want and not expect retaliation for it? You're a fool if you can't figure out the answer.

[Reachwind]

(IC) Looks like the Jarheads have taken to defending themselves. It appears they have a lot of new nations eager to participate in their common defense

(ooc) Damn. Jarheads has a LOT of nations.

I seriously hope that these guys aren't driven completely out of the game.... If a quarter of these guys stay that is still a huge addition to the population of the game.

[Akama]

If it's #1, I'm staying DEFCON 1 indefinitely because of my small stature

EDIT: forgot an alliance.

That's what I'm doing.

[JayOvfEnnay]

Jarheads have no point except to cause chaos.

And this post had no point but to make an idiotic misinformed statement without any backing or explanation.

Jarheads were about 50 members. Only when they were attacked did they skyrocket in membership and size.

THEY WERE ATTACKED, Walford H. Christ people, it's not a hard concept.

Jarheads got hit and decided "Hey, instead of rolling over and growing strings for the National Puppetry Organization like so many others, I'm going to put up a fight." Shame on you Jarheads! How dare you have enough bottle to actually cause damage to someone who declared WAR upon your nation.

[OOC] For those who don't know, here's a merriam-webster.com definition of the word war. Used so often, understood by so few.

1 a (1): a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2): a period of such armed conflict (3): state of war b: the art or science of warfare c (1)obsolete : weapons and equipment for war (2)archaic : soldiers armed and equipped for war

2 a: a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b: a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end.

Read the bolded areas. If you think there's any sort of morality needed for war that don't involve the phrase propaganda, I probably dislike and disagree with you. [OOC]

Edited March 7, 2009 by Jofna

[eragon55]

nice job of explaining it

[Alterego]

i would question this statement. just because someone takes the other side does not mean they are hater of the other side! just because in RL i vote for one political party not another does not mean that i hate the other party!

moving on....

Saying you know an alliance done a lot of bad things but you still side with them along with the fact he is talking directly to NPO only shows it is an anti NPO issue. There are other alliances at war and he didnt direct questions at them. He also decided to attack the Revenge Doctrine, another NPO only issue he wants answers to.

i do not support jarheads actions but i do think that they where declared upon for no good reason. if anyone where to DoW on them it should be IRON not NPO

Plotting against an alliance is about a clearcut a CB as you will find. This was not just spitballing around the camp fire, it was a genuine aim even if it was unachievable.

where talking about raiding red nations, not attacking nations with something in their AA. the difference between attacking shin or sunny side up is that they have a AA. they won't have ppl protecting them because of their team, but because they are in a alliance

The game is anything people say it is. If someone wants to protect red and can back it up they have the same right to do that as protecting people of the same AA, you might not like it but thats life. For the record there are 13 colours to raid including no colour are the other 12 not enough for him?

and i would like to also ask what points do you really make about jarheads except that you assume that jimmy hates NPO?

NPO and only NPO have been asked to explain themselves in his post, none of the other alliances were brought into the discussion, why is that? because he has singled them out as have others. Nine mentions of NPO and one mention of IRON that is used in a back story.

This quote explains it all

This charter is unjust, and is secretly frustrating many alliance members, like myself

Edited March 7, 2009 by Alterego

[Uralica]

And this post had no point but to make an idiotic misinformed statement without any backing or explanation.

Allow me:

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...rheads+Imperium

Why was Galactic Imperium attacked when they had nothing to do with this at all? I think Darth Maul is simply venting frustration that his mate was attacked without provocation. Which is perfectly understandable. He might have exaggerated in his frustration, but y'know, who doesn't do that once in a while?

I certainly wouldn't be raising a stink if Jarheads would actually keep their aggressive declarations to alliances that actually declared on them. I do agree with you on the points that people who get hit have every right to declare aggressively against other nations of those alliances that attacked them.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Uralica

[JayOvfEnnay]

Allow me:

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...rheads+Imperium

Why was Galactic Imperium attacked when they had nothing to do with this at all? I think Darth Maul is simply venting frustration that his mate was attacked without provocation. Which is perfectly understandable. He might have exaggerated in his frustration, but y'know, who doesn't do that once in a while?

I certainly wouldn't be raising a stink if Jarheads would actually keep their aggressive declarations to alliances that actually declared on them.

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...&Extended=1

See that? It's an MHA member hitting a member of STA and a member of NADC. Neither the NADC or the STA members have any other active wars going, so we can assume it wasn't an MHA sanctioned action.

My point here is that EVERY alliance has members that rogue x_x. The fact that Jarheads is at war with multiple alliances and that the majority are newer people doesn't help this, but the majority of Jarheads wars we can say are focused on those they are at war with.

I exaggerate my frustration a lot, but I try not to say things that clearly aren't true.

Jarheads were not the aggressors and are not here "just to cause chaos". =_= That's all I'm saying on the statement.

[Uralica]

Jarheads were not the aggressors and are not here "just to cause chaos". =_= That's all I'm saying on the statement.

I agree on both sentiments. However, my point is that, with the number of Jarheads seeming to be going rogue, it is understandable how DM could come to such a conclusion.

[MisterShadow]

This is a GREAT time to be in Pacifica for any small nation, you get yourself into a war and then you get lots of juicy aid