Uberstein Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Yes, we get it, you don't like NPO. Apparently you forget this isn't alliance politics. I suggest you get over trolling the NPO is a forum that alliances play no part. It isn't trolling, i'm stating a fact. They attacked NpO, or are you rewritting history? My belief is, people join alliances that reflect how they personally act, unless they don't pay attention to their alliance (what I usually did, lol). Alliances DO seem to play a part to you though, seeing how you have quite a few alliance friends who are only active around here whenever you have a war. I don't care if the NPO is in CNRP, I just find it odd how there are many nations that are completely inactive untill you go to war or raise readiness. Then suddenly, these people with maybe 12 posts to their name on the entire forum appear to give you that extra NS in battle. I'm calling things as I see them. (Important note: I don't HATE the NPO, I more so feel sorry for them and tend to question the reasons behind their actions.) Edited January 30, 2009 by BaronUberstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) First, NPO never attacked NpO. If your going to troll, not only should you do it in the right forum, you should get it right. We abandoned Polar, we destroyed FAN when they were demilitarized. That is the tin foil hat line, if your going to insult us please relate the proper charge to the proper event Secondly, a lot of us RP primarily as militarized states. Of the NPO states you allege that only post during wars, Dilber is busy IRL but is coming back as he has stated in this thread. Guru is active enough and looking for ways to be more, Applesauce, Hawk, Maelstrom, Vasili are all quite active. The only one which I could possibly imagine you are referring to is Prodigyy who I do agree should be encouraged to be more active. The fact is that not all NPOers are my allies though, Esus is not, Vektor and I have a tacit strategic cooperation agreemen, nor is Epiphaneus (though in that case he is a lot closer than the other two). Nor are all my allies NPOers, Shan, Iamthey, Mudd, Merger, and Wighton have equally close alliances with me as Dilber and Hawk. JEDCJT, AngryRacoonia, CodySeb, Stukov, Centurius, Cataduanas, V the King, Voodoo Nova, LeVentNoir, and Ranather are all allies who aren't NPO. Beyond that Rebel Virginia, who actually is NPO Perma-ZI is one of the closest allies we have in this game. Its about friendship, not about what alliance people are a part of. Certain states share our world view, certain ones do not. We'll support those that do. Edited January 30, 2009 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Well there are always exceptions to the rule, but I'm just going off what I seem to see every war. Maybe my quick reading of threads is not sufficient (wouldn't surprise me, lol), but every time you go to war with someone, about 10 more NPO people with about 20 posts to their name suddenly support you. It just seems odd to me. I also notice a almost religious zealotry against certain people for making sure their enemies are destroyed IC and OOC, but maybe I just got a bad first impression of many of you, psychology is certainly an odd thing. Wouldn't surprise me if I'm simply paranoid, but trust me, I don't have hard feelings about being rolled, made the game more interesting actually. I've been going off of hearsay mostly for my facts, mainly because I don't have the time to root though the entire forum. Today is the first time i'm getting conflicting info. As for the whole NpO thing, I was fairly sure you attacked them. What was all that posting on the forums about you betraying them about then? Edited January 30, 2009 by BaronUberstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Enemy propaganda... during war it should be obvious that engaging in disinformation is smart. The fact is however, that neither AlmightyGrub or Zbaldwin have said that the NPO betrayed them. Furthermore, they signed a treaty with us, when their terms expired. You really should listen to actual leaders of alliances, rather than disgruntled people who exaggerate the bad when they don't get there way. As for pursueing enemies and establishing friendly regimes, duh, guilty as charged. I am RPing a nation-state which exists in a world were there is very little frame work of international cooperation. It is unsurprising that the UFE like the United States and Soviet Union, would seek to setup regimes friendly to its national interest in areas which it occupies. Furthermore, as has been said many times, if Sumeragi or you for that matter simply surrendered utterly too us, instead of continueing military resistance post-war, we would have a much different outcome. I point you to the Neo Japanese. They weren't very pro-us, but when they fully complied with the surrender terms we did give them independence rather than annex Honshu and Hokkaido. Sumeragi chose to take up arms after the surrender, in Europe. Under such a circumstance where she was maintaining armed forces, peace is not acceptable. It would have been a return to the same old system. In your case, you launched a radiological attack on our allies and partners. No IRL state would allow for a former government along those lines to ever exist again. I recognize some people prefer to RP a system of jet setting royalty and love triangles, however, the UFE is a very hardnosed realist power. We operate along the lines of what equals our best security. I see no need to apologize to you for that. Also no one has ever said we won't allow any player to RP under a totally different group. If Sumeragi, you, Martens, or anyone wanted to make an eskimo nation for example, I wouldn't care in the least, so long as it was not linked to your previous nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Except Uberstein didn't do the attack, Dodmann did. There is a difference, and while I controlled both characters OOC, there is a difference IC, and no evidence that Uberstein ordered the attack, just that he had the machine build when he was in power, which he stated to the world was to allow him to prevent nuclear attack on his own people by assuring "MAD". Uberstein then made a public announcement over radio saying that if any nation is to find Dodmann, he is to be arrested, and told the 600 troops in Svalbard to stand down. He also never commited any war crimes (as far as you guys know) while he was in power, so your claim that he is a terrorist is kinda...weak so far. And I love war in RP's, but I find it odd how you say "I carpet bomb the entire island" then say "I don't kill any civilians", it doesn't make sense. Edited January 30, 2009 by BaronUberstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 When did I deny killing civilians, I simply deny that my attacks were blind, and that I did not target enemy military positions, I fully accept the possibility of colatteral damage, I do not accept the possibility of your troops being mostly uneffected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) When did I deny killing civilians, I simply deny that my attacks were blind, and that I did not target enemy military positions, I fully accept the possibility of colatteral damage, I do not accept the possibility of your troops being mostly uneffected. The problem is, there WERE no enemy positions by the time you started to bomb again. You killed a good 400 troops and 1000 civilians with your first bombing, because they were inside the city. Then, 400 more came up, but were still in the underground tunnels, and the rest of the troops were in underground tunnels, and made their way to Rebel Army ships. These tunnels were designed to survive bombs, and you don't know where they are, so even if you "bomb the entire island", that would take days because of the size of the island. And you said "bombing everything on the island", that doesn't sound like "only the non-existent military installations" Edited January 30, 2009 by BaronUberstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 If I bombed the island, I find it interesting your survived with no casualties, just as I find it interesting that your units seem to be invincible to LeVentNoirs weapons. Apparently you are god, totally unaccountable for your actions, and I forgot this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 If I bombed the island, I find it interesting your survived with no casualties, just as I find it interesting that your units seem to be invincible to LeVentNoirs weapons. Apparently you are god, totally unaccountable for your actions, and I forgot this. It seems you need to reread my posts. Svalbard has an entire underground military base, the best that Ubersteinia built. The troops used the UNDERGROUND TUNNELS to escape. And there were causalties, about 400 troops, but then more came up from the underground when they heard they had a chance to get off the damn island. As for the weapons, I am currently discussing it with him, because in the original design (the design he used when he attacked me), his weapons would be ineffective against my troops. If he has used his current re-design or a normal 15mm gun, then my troops would have died, but he was using the older version then left the RP. The fact they he left makes his troops a moot point. Also, I don't think you know what "unaccountable" means, because your previous sentance contains no examples of "unaccountability". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Oh god. That was one of the worst catfights I have seen. Anyway. Ubie is not worth it because I ever had a quarrel with him IC. Sumeragi is the source of long running IC hate, and nords in general share some of that hate. Hence, Hate of Camberlain and all of sumeragis elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Oh god. That was one of the worst catfights I have seen.Anyway. Ubie is not worth it because I ever had a quarrel with him IC. Sumeragi is the source of long running IC hate, and nords in general share some of that hate. Hence, Hate of Camberlain and all of sumeragis elements. I hate their actions, but not them. Sumeragi could be a really good rper and I think she's making good headwinds, all people have to do is learn how to accept losses without giving up the kitchen sink and how to give losses without obliterating your friend's kitchen sink in the process. It's not that hard to do co-operative RP. Also, if they kept to context, that'd help things, but some do not understand that pushing the envelope of what can be done is a very bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Oh god. That was one of the worst catfights I have seen.Anyway. Ubie is not worth it because I ever had a quarrel with him IC. Sumeragi is the source of long running IC hate, and nords in general share some of that hate. Hence, Hate of Camberlain and all of sumeragis elements. Contrary to the social stigma, a fight between two cats can actually get quite messy. Just because housecats are small doesn't mean they can't fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Wilding Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Actually, I think that fight was more like watching two four-year old's argue who has the better Hot Wheels car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Actually, I think that fight was more like watching two four-year old's argue who has the better Hot Wheels car. ...How exactly is it like that? I don't see it that way, I see it as an argument between...I don't really know what it's between but he doesn't believe that my troops were underground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Actually, I think that fight was more like watching two four-year old's argue who has the better Hot Wheels car. No, it is actually two four year old kids fighting over a Lego piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Care to explain why it is like that or are you people just trolling now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDCJT Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Hm, perhaps I can sum it up better: "Hey, my Wheels car looks so cool!" "Yah, so is mine!" "Uh, mine looks cooler than yours!" "OH yah? Well, mine looks cooler than yours!" "NO! Mine is cooler!" "U lie! Mine cooler!" "NO MINE COOL!" And so it continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Lol, the topic of this agruement is a past arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Hm, perhaps I can sum it up better:"Hey, my Wheels car looks so cool!" "Yah, so is mine!" "Uh, mine looks cooler than yours!" "OH yah? Well, mine looks cooler than yours!" "NO! Mine is cooler!" "U lie! Mine cooler!" "NO MINE COOL!" And so it continues. And the argument doesn't follow those lines at all. The only similar part is the back-and-forth, but it's hardly a debate if someone doesn't reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demut Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) You have arguments? Edited January 31, 2009 by Demut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 You have arguments? Unfortunately, it would be much much worse if this was freeform RP though. Everyone would be arguing if their immortal god tropps could withstand the super earth destroyer weapons.. Oh wait..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 You have arguments? Yes, but ours are resolved after a day or so. Not six odd months like somewhere else we both know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasili Markov Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I hate their actions, but not them. Sumeragi could be a really good rper and I think she's making good headwinds, all people have to do is learn how to accept losses without giving up the kitchen sink and how to give losses without obliterating your friend's kitchen sink in the process. It's not that hard to do co-operative RP. Also, if they kept to context, that'd help things, but some do not understand that pushing the envelope of what can be done is a very bad thing. The funny thing is if she got caught, then good forum RPG etiquette would not let anyone actually kill her or permanently wreck her RP. She would lose a fair proportion of her high command NPCs and probably have some restrictions placed on her for a while by other characters, but she would be allowed to go after that storyline finished. Good manners would prevent anything less, but actions have consequences and those consequences have to be resolved in some way before the story can progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 The funny thing is if she got caught, then good forum RPG etiquette would not let anyone actually kill her or permanently wreck her RP. She would lose a fair proportion of her high command NPCs and probably have some restrictions placed on her for a while by other characters, but she would be allowed to go after that storyline finished. Good manners would prevent anything less, but actions have consequences and those consequences have to be resolved in some way before the story can progress. Already there is no etiquette, as this case of character assassination NOT in the midst of war shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Already there is no etiquette, as this case of character assassination NOT in the midst of war shows. First, you are allowed to kill characters, but not leaders. Second, for them to be a leader, they have to have a nation state to be leader of. But I agree, etiquette left these boards a long while ago, and there have been some horrendous examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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