Ranather Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Except we were half inactive :/ Oh sure I can't get Tigers, Leopards, or Vessla anymore, but I don't particularly miss REPO all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Except we were half inactive :/Oh sure I can't get Tigers, Leopards, or Vessla anymore, but I don't particularly miss REPO all that much. Actually, you can still get the Vesslas, I'm pretty sure you own the factories, and Ubie said that they were still running. Jed owns all my old factories now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'll tell you the budget during the trial. You'll be surprised Translation: "I need more time to type out my lies and godmods". Actually, there was a funnier version of this said on IRC, but its a warnable offense to post it here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Translation: "I need more time to type out my lies and godmods". Hint: Check the military budget of South Korea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranather Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Actually, you can still get the Vesslas, I'm pretty sure you own the factories, and Ubie said that they were still running.Jed owns all my old factories now Not to be argumentative, but.... Uber - 500 Tech at his peak Me - Anywhere from 20 to 150 at any given time So, No, but meh, I don't need em as I'm 'neutral', right? Edited January 21, 2009 by Ranather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Hint: Check the military budget of South Korea. Which can be ignored as A: you don't Rp south korea, B: you have a closed economy, damning you to poverty as explained above, and C: I though we weren't allowed to pull stuff out of our ****?. However, I must say, it was only 719mil, nowhere near the level needed to buy your weapons. Example, a M1A2 tank costs 4.35million. Your budget (if based on ROKs {Which you can't use anyway}) includes the purchase of 9500 cruise missile launchers (among other, more expensive things..). 719,000,000 / 9500 = 75,684 each. And thats a load of ****. You have too much stuff and too little money to have a nation not in poverty. Your beaten, and throwing more junk around will not change that. NINJA EDIT: Cruise Missiles are expensive. Lets go at that price, and you need a military budget of 5.4 billion to buy just 9500 missiles (one per launcher, plus the actual launchers). And remember, you have to front up with the capital used to rebuild your nation (three times....) Edited January 21, 2009 by LeVentNoir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Which can be ignored as A: you don't Rp south korea, B: you have a closed economy, damning you to poverty as explained above, and C: I though we weren't allowed to pull stuff out of our ****?. A. I RP a nation based on Japanese and Koreans. Think they didn't bring their knowledge with them? B. As I already gave the example of RL Japan, a country can comfortably live without imports or exports, if given the tech and the resources. It would be of optimal benefits, but reasonable. C. I never pull stuff out of my ****. However, I must say, it was only 719mil, nowhere near the level needed to buy your weapons. Example, a M1A2 tank costs 4.35million. The ROK military budget is 25.5 billion. Shove it LVN, you're the one who ran away when things are going against you. I do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsage Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 You aren't ROK. Besides, with 512 Million citizens, you'd be a bit strained just trying to feed them and collect taxes with that little infrastructure, much less withdraw gigantic sums of money for military purchases... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) You aren't ROK.Besides, with 512 Million citizens, you'd be a bit strained just trying to feed them and collect taxes with that little infrastructure, much less withdraw gigantic sums of money for military purchases... 55,458,000 citizens. Also, I calculate my GDP to be around $756 billion. Edited January 21, 2009 by Sumeragi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) A. I RP a nation based on Japanese and Koreans. Think they didn't bring their knowledge with them? This is CNRP, that point is invalid. You can't claim that they are smart, because they don't exist. B. As I already gave the example of RL Japan, a country can comfortably live without imports or exports, if given the tech and the resources. It would be of optimal benefits, but reasonable. It fails. Why do you think that blockading island nations works. Because it chokes them massively. When no money is incoming, and money goes out, (as in your example), the level of capital in the nation reduces, and poverty happens. Look at it this way. You have a bucket. Water goes in the top (money coming in from over seas), Water goes out the bottom (money going off shore / internal capital expenditures), and the level of water in the bucket (the money in the country). Since you have no money in, your bucket is empty. C. I never pull stuff out of my ****. I have many examples. It starts with a certain cold fusion reactor. The ROK military budget is 25.5 billion. My bad, I got the wrong figure, some how got the 1974 one. Still thats 20% of your years military budget on one missile per 9500 launchers. And since we can assume that you have more than one missile per launcher, you are looking very short of funds. Using the forumla from page 50, and military expenditures of 4% of GDP, you get 27 billion. So, assume at least 50% for personnel costs, 2 missiles per launcher, ands 2.7billion left for everything else (the torpedoes, coilguns, maintaining that fortress, your cruise missile lanchers, maintaining (and replacing your navy {and thats billions on its own})) I have you beat. And that last attack? That was low and pretty horrible. I though you had some points, not personnel attacks. EDIT. My bad, it was not 9500 cruise missile lanchers, it was 9500 auto flaks, at a million each. So thats 9.5billion. Edited January 21, 2009 by LeVentNoir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Frost Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 55,458,000 citizens. and here is where you are wrong 6.7 million citizens at x100 or 67,423 using exact IG number. You forget that x1000 and RL population is not recognized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 and here is where you are wrong6.7 million citizens at x100 or 67,423 using exact IG number. You forget that x1000 and RL population is not recognized It's not recognized by you, but most people said that they had no problem with people's multipliers if they didn't do crazy things with them, and that they were less than or equal to x1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirreille Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 It's not recognized by you, but most people said that they had no problem with people's multipliers if they didn't do crazy things with them, and that they were less than or equal to x1000. I think somewhere in this thread LVN mentions Triyun is using x 5000 for his multiplier. Well, he is playing China so you won't see me arguing with him LVN, what would the numbers look like for my nation based on your formula? I can't make heads or tails of it. If you are just looking at gross, are you taking into account you only get 30% of that number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Here is a IRC chat about Sumeragi, closed economy and poverty. [7:17pm] LeVentNoir: hey sumeragi[7:17pm] JerreyRough: Brüllen! [7:17pm] LeVentNoir: you can't claim your people are smart because they are korean / japanes [7:17pm] Voodoo_Nova left the chat room. (Ping timeout) [7:17pm] LeVentNoir: neither of them exist in CNRP as they do RL, your point fails [7:18pm] LeVentNoir: besides, your entire budget is going on personnel costs and buying two missiles per launcher. (that doesn't include other things like the launchers, your navy, coilguns etc) [7:19pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: ok someone please tell me what the hell a coil gun is? [7:19pm] JerreyRough: its a gun thats a coil [7:19pm] JerreyRough: [7:19pm] Sumeragi: o\ [7:19pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: lol [7:19pm] LeVentNoir: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun [7:19pm] Sumeragi: it seems LVN missed the point [7:20pm] LeVentNoir: no, it seems you don't have enough money [7:20pm] Sumeragi: I do [7:20pm] LeVentNoir: well then, please show us your national budget and a list of purchases and costs of each [7:20pm] Sumeragi: estimated over 10 billion surplus [7:20pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: coil guns and rail guns and emp bombs all sound like a bunch of hooey to me [7:20pm] LeVentNoir: right [7:20pm] JerreyRough: it has a barrel that is in teh shape of a coil [7:20pm] JerreyRough: and the bullet goes round n' round [7:21pm] JerreyRough: then comes out and goes somewher random [7:21pm] LeVentNoir: so, what percent of GDP did DKT use as a military budget? [7:21pm] Sumeragi: before the buying spree [7:21pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Hrmm, almost making 3 million suprlus/ day [7:21pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: idk why we cant just lob a bunch of bombs at each other and kill as many people as we can [7:21pm] LeVentNoir: nice one MV [7:21pm] Sumeragi: 3.5% [7:21pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: That should expedite my wonder construction [7:21pm] LeVentNoir: so, assuming 50% personnel costs... [7:21pm] Sumeragi: but you need to reduce that a LOT [7:22pm] Sumeragi: As I said, ROKA maintains a force that's 3~4 times bigger [7:22pm] LeVentNoir: and that a Reppu costs the same as a tomahawk, and you want at least two missiles per launcher [7:22pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: too many big words in that wiki article [7:22pm] LeVentNoir: the costs of the missiles alone come to 10.8 billion [7:22pm] LeVentNoir: oh, i'm sorry, so your based on the south korean military, but not? [7:22pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: like "the" and "is" [7:23pm] Sumeragi: tomahawk is about $569,000 [7:23pm] LeVentNoir: yeah [7:23pm] LeVentNoir: multiply by 9500 launchers... [7:23pm] LeVentNoir: 5.4 billion [7:23pm] Sumeragi: 9500? [7:23pm] LeVentNoir: yes [7:23pm] LeVentNoir: thats how many launchers you claimed to have... [7:23pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: bill gates could afford it [7:24pm] Sumeragi: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...c=41693&hl= [7:24pm] Sumeragi: no, 9500 are the autoflaks [7:24pm] Tanis[TSI] joined the chat room. [7:24pm] Tanis[TSI] was granted voice by ChanServ. [7:24pm] LeVentNoir: ah, how much do those cost each? [7:24pm] LeVentNoir: I would say one million at a minimun, due to the AI and general level of advancement of the things [7:24pm] Sumeragi: Martens did say 1 million [7:25pm] Sumeragi: so, if I maintain the same budget as ROK [7:25pm] Sumeragi: 25.5 billion [7:25pm] Sumeragi: and given that I use about 1/4 the size [7:26pm] LeVentNoir: thats 9.5 billion for tha launchers alone [7:26pm] Sumeragi: I have a serplus of aroun 8~9 billion [7:26pm] Sumeragi: a year [7:26pm] LeVentNoir: thats 37% of the militar budget [7:26pm] Sumeragi: of course, this is assuming I'm buying as much stuff as ROK [7:26pm] LeVentNoir: sumeragi, did you budget for rebuiling your entire industry, three times? [7:26pm] Sumeragi: with all the f-15s and such [7:27pm] LeVentNoir: well, you are buying torpedoes, cruise missiles, submarines, AA guns... [7:27pm] Sumeragi: LVN, you forgot that you and sargun paid up for the damages [7:27pm] LeVentNoir: and building a navy [7:27pm] LeVentNoir: where did I say that? [7:27pm] Sumeragi: I have a smaller navy than ROK [7:27pm] LeVentNoir: I probably did [7:27pm] LeVentNoir: so? [7:27pm] LeVentNoir: it still costs losts [7:27pm] LeVentNoir: *lots [7:27pm] Sumeragi: yes, but I'm at a smaller scale than ROK [7:27pm] Sumeragi: which is currently buying tons of stuff [7:28pm] Sumeragi: ranging from new tanks to fighters, to developing cruise missiles, subs, etc [7:28pm] Sumeragi: that's where the difference is [7:28pm] LeVentNoir: but sumeragi, you are buying lots of new stuff [7:28pm] LeVentNoir: see.. [7:28pm] LeVentNoir: ?? [7:29pm] Sumeragi: yes, and I figure they cost about 15~20 million total [7:29pm] LeVentNoir: you will have to increase the percentage of GDP that goes to militray [7:29pm] LeVentNoir: LOL? [7:29pm] Sumeragi: er, billion [7:29pm] LeVentNoir: ah, right [7:29pm] Sumeragi: typo >_> [7:29pm] LeVentNoir: and how much does it cost to maintain all this? [7:29pm] Sumeragi: you know, I figure there isn't any maintaince bills yet [7:29pm] Tashir joined the chat room. [7:30pm] LeVentNoir: lol [7:30pm] LeVentNoir: it is purchased, it needs maintainance [7:30pm] Sumeragi: because things happened too fast to actual record it [7:30pm] Tanis[TSI]: oh gawd [7:30pm] Sumeragi: come on now, LVN [7:30pm] LeVentNoir: what? [7:30pm] LeVentNoir: if you buy something, it will need maintainance [7:30pm] Sumeragi: Oceanic war happened like less than 6 months from the Pacific War [7:31pm] LeVentNoir: ? [7:31pm] LeVentNoir: thats lots of time to rack up some big maintenance bills [7:31pm] Sumeragi: not much, [7:31pm] LeVentNoir: actually, it is [7:31pm] Tanis[TSI]: argue argue argue... blah blah blah... bicker bicker bicker... I dunno, I seem to not make myself clear sometime in this [7:31pm] Sumeragi: given that most came about less than 2 months [7:31pm] LeVentNoir: its roughly half the yearly maintenance bill [7:32pm] LeVentNoir: Whatever. [7:32pm] LeVentNoir: Your nation was in either poverty or close [7:32pm] LeVentNoir: its what you get with a closed economy [7:32pm] Tanis[TSI]: ^ thisssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssnakkke [7:32pm] LeVentNoir: and until you can prove otherwise (with real examples) [7:33pm] Sumeragi: All in less than 6 months? [7:33pm] LeVentNoir: i will not accept anything other wise [7:33pm] Tanis[TSI]: (cannot compute) [7:33pm] Sumeragi: you don't know government budgetting [7:33pm] Sumeragi: I'll leave it at that [7:33pm] LeVentNoir: actually, you had a closed economy for 30-40 years... [7:33pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: [7:33pm] Sumeragi: if I did this like 2 years ago RP-wise [7:33pm] Tanis[TSI]: Yes, do produce the sad face Justinian [7:33pm] Sumeragi: LVN, the full closing happened about 7~8 years ago [7:33pm] • Tashir meow mix song? [7:34pm] LeVentNoir: oh? so now you are godmodding [7:34pm] Sumeragi: nope [7:34pm] Sumeragi: I always wrote things, LVN [7:34pm] LeVentNoir: "its only been closed a short while.." just so you can excape [7:34pm] Tanis[TSI]: ohhhhhh... quick people place your bets in the argument! [7:34pm] Sumeragi: always [7:34pm] Sumeragi: also, it doesn't really matter [7:34pm] Tashir: half on LVN half on sumeragi, both at 3 to 1 odds [7:34pm] Sumeragi: I had that budget for ages [7:35pm] LeVentNoir: right? [7:35pm] Tanis[TSI]: Excellent [7:35pm] LeVentNoir: right.... [7:35pm] LeVentNoir: yeah right [7:35pm] Sumeragi: and even if we say that it was only durring Ryumu's reign [7:35pm] Sumeragi: that's 3 years [7:35pm] Sumeragi: enough to have a surplus of 20 million [7:35pm] LeVentNoir: sumeragi, you are making up facts after the event to cover the holes, just like you have done many times [7:35pm] Sumeragi: billion* [7:35pm] Sumeragi: LVN, you never read [7:36pm] Tashir: Dranagg spent its yearly external budget already </3 [7:36pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: its a common strategy that governments use [7:36pm] Sumeragi: read my threads, and be educated [7:36pm] Tashir: I'm going to get use outta it though [7:36pm] LeVentNoir: i will not listen to your BS, DKT is considered to be pretty much economically equivilent to DPRK [7:36pm] Tanis[TSI]: oh snap fail [7:36pm] Sumeragi: *chuckles* [7:36pm] LeVentNoir: and you can't prove other wis [7:36pm] Tashir: <---has da cheap armiez guyz [7:36pm] LeVentNoir: lol [7:36pm] Sumeragi: can you prove it, then? [7:36pm] Tanis[TSI]: lolz [7:36pm] LeVentNoir: yes [7:37pm] Sumeragi: do it [7:37pm] LeVentNoir: closed economies bleed money [7:37pm] LeVentNoir: you have a closed economy [7:37pm] Tashir: I substitue massive training for expensive equipment [7:37pm] LeVentNoir: and it has been for at least 40 years [7:37pm] LeVentNoir: and so your nation is in poverty [7:37pm] Tashir: substitute* [7:37pm] Sumeragi: closed economies bleed money-> not necessarily [7:37pm] Tanis[TSI]: I cannot see logical RP tax moniez... (insert imaginagary figures here) [7:37pm] LeVentNoir: well, they ahve no money in [7:37pm] LeVentNoir: how do they gain money? [7:37pm] Tashir: Cuba still has cars...from 1950 [7:37pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: i went into the future and bought an amry of cyborg monkeys [7:37pm] Sumeragi: even the US managed to survive for over 20 years with less than 7% GDP trades [7:38pm] Sumeragi: during the 50~60s [7:38pm] LeVentNoir: 7%? try 0% [7:38pm] LeVentNoir: who has tried that... [7:38pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: 500,000 cyborg monkies [7:38pm] LeVentNoir: DPRK... [7:38pm] LeVentNoir: got any other RL examples of closed economies? [7:38pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: lol monkeys [7:38pm] Sumeragi: yes, 0% due to the abundance of resources within your lands [7:38pm] Tashir: Cuba?;o [7:38pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: i never learned how to spell [7:38pm] Tashir: join the club justinian [7:38pm] LeVentNoir: Who are you going to sell them to? [7:39pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: lol [7:39pm] LeVentNoir: you can't make everything in your nation [7:39pm] Sumeragi: do I need to sell them? [7:39pm] LeVentNoir: well yes [7:39pm] Tashir: If I could get a geo-thermal plant I can make nearly anything [7:39pm] Tanis[TSI]: An entirely closed economy has never been truly tested at a modern level, those that do, I would like to point out (insert third world country or North Korea) [7:39pm] LeVentNoir: you can't make everything, and if you flood the market, proce goes down, and you end up with large amounts of worthless thigns [7:39pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON] joined the chat room. [7:39pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON] was promoted to half-operator by ChanServ. [7:39pm] LeVentNoir: IW was in poverty, we just never let the people know [7:40pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Closed markets are economic godmoding. [7:40pm] LeVentNoir: yeah [7:40pm] LeVentNoir: thanks MV [7:40pm] Sumeragi: no, they aren't [7:40pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: So guys [7:40pm] Sumeragi: if the tech manages to catch up, that is [7:40pm] LeVentNoir: so, as a price for that, you are in poverty, case closed [7:40pm] Sumeragi: hey, I'm an econ major, people [7:40pm] LeVentNoir: so/ [7:40pm] Sumeragi: I knmow what I'm saying [7:40pm] Tashir: as per geographical issues I've given up the "feed me" argument of populations [7:40pm] LeVentNoir: then give us some damn figures [7:40pm] LeVentNoir: a total budget for the DKT [7:40pm] Tashir: its not possible for to many nations [7:40pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: I have a PhD in slackerology [7:40pm] Tanis[TSI]: Numbers would be nice... [7:41pm] LeVentNoir: and how it is spent [7:41pm] LeVentNoir: and what it was used on [7:41pm] LeVentNoir: and what was made in country [7:41pm] Sumeragi: for the %&*(^(*& time, LVN [7:41pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Sumeragi. I've been an international banker. I've handled multimillion dollar transactions around the world, holding a series 7 and 63 license in the U.S. There are only a few countries in the world that cannot participate directly in U.S. markets. [7:41pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: The few that cannot are either broke.. or have oil. [7:41pm] Sumeragi: I TOLD YOU MY ECONOMY SIZE/BUDGET IS BASED ON KOREA [7:41pm] LeVentNoir: no it is not [7:41pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Which one? [7:41pm] Sumeragi: ROK [7:41pm] LeVentNoir: it is based (very poorly) on south korea [7:41pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Ok. [7:41pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: THEN YOUR ECONOMY/MARKET IS OPEN MARKET LIKE ROK.. [7:41pm] LeVentNoir: but south korea is open [7:41pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: I dunno what a ROK is. [7:42pm] LeVentNoir: but you use a closed economy, unlike ROK [7:42pm] LeVentNoir: SNAP [7:42pm] Sumeragi: of course, the only difference is that ROK relies on 80% on trade [7:42pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: S. Korea would lose 75% of its GDP with a closed market.. or more. [7:42pm] Tashir: ROK economy = massive SC zergling rushes [7:42pm] Sumeragi: that's where the Japanese part comes it [7:42pm] Tanis[TSI]: The ROK economy is raked what in the world... please tell me. [7:42pm] Sumeragi: in* [7:42pm] Tanis[TSI]: Top 10 I suppose [7:42pm] Sumeragi: 11th [7:42pm] Tanis[TSI]: Close [7:42pm] Sumeragi: 2008: 919 billion [7:42pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: I know Norway's is pretty well up there [7:42pm] Sumeragi: nop [7:42pm] Sumeragi: within the 20th, yes [7:42pm] Sumeragi: but it's not that big [7:43pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: The Republic of Korea is a heavy exporter of technology.. [7:43pm] Tashir: isnt the economies listed as USA, Germany, Japan for the top 3? [7:43pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: You close it. [7:43pm] LeVentNoir: and you get poverty [7:43pm] Tanis[TSI]: China replaced Germany [7:43pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: You ain't got jack.. the companies would bail the ship like it were a sinking fishing trawler in the antarctic. [7:43pm] LeVentNoir: you lose sumeragi [7:43pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Closed economies cannot last. [7:43pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: It's just not possible. [7:43pm] Sumeragi: o\ [7:43pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: "Sorry, you can't sell your cell phones over seas anymore to cell phone hungry Americans.." [7:43pm] Tashir: tanis, liar [7:43pm] Tanis[TSI]: Open economies = pwning the top 20 [7:43pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Unless you have a self-sustaining economy. [7:43pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: "Oh !@#$! Lets head to .. er.. China or somewhere!" [7:43pm] Sumeragi: seriously, I figure free-traders will be zealots [7:44pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Sumeragi. [7:44pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Did your nation produce it's own food? [7:44pm] Sumeragi: yes [7:44pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Sumer, it's not a matter of free trade, it's a matter of simple math an free-market corporate survival. [7:44pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Fuel? [7:44pm] Tanis[TSI]: Well it's true based off the figures... numbers don't lie [7:44pm] Sumeragi: yes [7:44pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Metals? [7:44pm] Sumeragi: YES [7:44pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Construction materials? [7:44pm] Tashir: According to the Global Competitiveness Index 2007 – 2008, the top ten economies of the world are: incompatible encoding [7:44pm] Tashir: United States [7:44pm] Tashir: Switzerland [7:44pm] Tashir: Denmark [7:44pm] Tashir: Sweden [7:44pm] Tashir: Germany [7:44pm] Tashir: Finland [7:44pm] Tashir: Singapore [7:44pm] Tashir: Japan [7:44pm] Tashir: United Kingdom [7:44pm] Tashir: Netherlands [7:44pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: ROK does not have sufficient fuel sources to provide for itself. They'd be on bicycles. [7:44pm] Tashir: wtfuzzle cake? [7:44pm] Sumeragi: why do you think I chose New Guina? [7:44pm] Rebel_Virginia: Sumeragi - How can New Guinea produce enough food for 50 million people? [7:45pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Because Japan was taken. [7:45pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: And Korea. [7:45pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: [7:45pm] Rebel_Virginia: It's mostly mountain. [7:45pm] LeVentNoir: correct VS [7:45pm] Sumeragi: that, and the fact new guinea is one f the largest mineral reserves int he world [7:45pm] Sumeragi: once you break throught the lack of infra, [7:45pm] Sumeragi: it's heaven [7:45pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Sumeragi.. [7:45pm] LeVentNoir: but what good does a large amount of minerals do if you can' seel them [7:45pm] LeVentNoir: you can't use them all [7:45pm] LeVentNoir: 8sell [7:45pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: What's having one of the largest mineral reserves in th world.. if you can't sell jack? [7:45pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: You put them all into surplus. [7:45pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Trust me [7:45pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Communes can work. [7:45pm] LeVentNoir: and what good does that do? [7:46pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: However [7:46pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Nothing, it's just as effective in the ground. [7:46pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Sumeragi was a warlike nation [7:46pm] Sumeragi: LVN, 50 million is a large enough of a domestic market to survive [7:46pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: It's just sitting on a shelf. [7:46pm] Tashir: Internal goods drop massivly in price if there us a supply surplus [7:46pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: COngrats, you spent money.. moved it.. and did nothing with it. [7:46pm] LeVentNoir: sumeragi [7:46pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: She wouldn't spend money to produce her own materials [7:46pm] LeVentNoir: closed economies have no money in right? [7:46pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: If she has a completely closed economy [7:46pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: She would have to. [7:46pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: And produce her own money [7:46pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: She has to pay her workers! [7:46pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: And pay her workers. [7:47pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Yeah [7:47pm] Tashir: LVN, they have less money out too [7:47pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: But her currency would not need to have value against other nations. [7:47pm] LeVentNoir: so, then your 10 billion surpus is taking money out of the ecnomoy each year... [7:47pm] LeVentNoir: and so with no money in, and 10billion out, you get poverty [7:47pm] LeVentNoir: snap [7:47pm] Tashir: unless she has proof that she had massive natural resource exploitation before closing the economy [7:47pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Vince: Just because you don't want to buy foreign goods or ever leave your country.. don't mean your people won't. [7:47pm] LeVentNoir: which she doesn't [7:47pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Sumeragi... [7:47pm] Tashir: poverty will be there with a pimp cane [7:47pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: There'd be riots. [7:47pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: were you communist? [7:47pm] Sumeragi: no [7:47pm] Sumeragi: I'm a free trader in RL [7:47pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Yeah, that's kinda bad. [7:47pm] Tashir: if there is a massive natural resource explotation going on, the prices will drop faster than the wages [7:47pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Nobody's going to want to work for the greater good. [7:48pm] LeVentNoir: Even as IW i never had a closed economy [7:48pm] Tashir: so on a international scale, they are poor, but locally they arnt [7:48pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Hell [7:48pm] Ice[WE]: actuall;y u did lvn [7:48pm] LeVentNoir: wrong [7:48pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: "We have sticks.. and we're happy with them!" [7:48pm] Ice[WE]: nobody could enter IW [7:48pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: I produce my own fuel and some food, but I'm definately not closed. [7:48pm] LeVentNoir: queensland free zone, I allowed cross border trade [7:48pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: I import lotsa !@#$. [7:48pm] LeVentNoir: and investment [7:48pm] Ice[WE]: only near the end of IW [7:48pm] Tashir: Mael, if a country has the resources, eventually things like say..a car [7:48pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: My people get tired of fish. [7:48pm] Tashir: could be 100 bucks [7:48pm] Ice[WE]: when u got control of australia [7:48pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Fish and Pot. [7:48pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: The Dragon Empire is selectively protectionist. [7:48pm] Ice[WE]: before then there werent any safe zones [7:48pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: That's all we produce. [7:48pm] Tashir: it'd be just as expensive now though compared to the salary drop [7:49pm] LeVentNoir: well, we were in poverty before that, just didn't let the people catch on [7:49pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: i caught on [7:49pm] LeVentNoir: lol [7:49pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: [7:49pm] LeVentNoir: you weren't drugged [7:49pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: lol [7:49pm] Tanis[TSI]: Oh here Tashir [7:49pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Hell [7:49pm] Sumeragi: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...c=37228&hl= [7:49pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Tashir: If cars were worth only 100.00, you'd be hell pressed to find anyone wanting to make them. [7:49pm] Tashir: moo? [7:49pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: I tried to roleplay a closed economy with the Thunder Bay Anarchsist commune [7:49pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: That didn't work for !@#$. [7:49pm] Tanis[TSI]: http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds...afx5916969.html <---- China revising GDP '08 forcast [7:49pm] Sumeragi: read before commenting [7:50pm] Tashir: mael, in a closed economy that would be the scale rate [7:50pm] LeVentNoir: read, highlight the bits which support your cause [7:50pm] • Sumeragi goes to make sig [7:50pm] Tashir: only if the country had surplus natural resources [7:50pm] Sumeragi left the chat room. (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [7:50pm] LeVentNoir: I think logic wins again [7:50pm] • Justinian_the_Mighty goes to make wee wee [7:50pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: $%&@youimadragon [7:50pm] Tanis[TSI]: pwnage! epic win! TA DA! She's GONE! [7:51pm] Tashir: wow germany got pwnt [7:51pm] Tashir: anyway [7:51pm] Tanis[TSI]: yeeeeepppp [7:51pm] Ice[WE]: well theres the problem with sumeragi [7:51pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: whats going on in prussia? [7:51pm] Ice[WE]: shes been using the wrong population count [7:51pm] Tashir: I think she's trying to RP a surplus, with a massive massive drain [7:51pm] Tashir: which wont happen [7:51pm] Tanis[TSI]: ^ truth that hurts [7:51pm] Tashir: closed economies with surplus resources only work if they dont well...spend like water [7:51pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Just because I can't rp a dragon.. or be a dragon. Doesn't mean I can't think like one. [7:51pm] • Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO] bites vince's ankle. [7:52pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: lol [7:52pm] Tashir: on a international level, closed economies are poor [7:52pm] Tashir: however the internal scale is the same as before [7:52pm] Tashir: prices dropped with the loss of money [7:52pm] Tashir: [7:52pm] Tashir: until shortage hits [7:52pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: The Internal scale would also change.. as relative quality of life would fall [7:52pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: I don't associate myself with an animal. [7:52pm] Tashir: then you're fuxx [7:52pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: People would not longer have access to outside goods. [7:52pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: No more diversity in food. [7:52pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: No more diversity in culture. [7:52pm] Tashir: hence why it needs a surplus to exist [7:52pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: No more diversity in products. [7:52pm] LeVentNoir: which supports my view, DKT = DPRK [7:52pm] Tashir: Mael, See Ireland [7:52pm] Tashir: [7:52pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Suprlus does not solve diversity. [7:53pm] Tashir: how many ways can the irish make potateos [7:53pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: You would have serious brain bleed from intellectualists leaving the country to find places they can get the goodies they want [7:53pm] Justinian_the_Mighty: lots [7:53pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Next thing you know your education system falls apart.. [7:53pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: So who wants to make a trade web thread? [7:53pm] Tashir: nah [7:53pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: And then your people forget how to maintain basic infrastructure systems. [7:53pm] Tashir: the education system just stagnates [7:53pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Everyone posts what they can export [7:53pm] Tashir: not dies [7:53pm] Vince_Sixx[iRON]: And then what their people need. [7:53pm] LeVentNoir: MV, her people could not leave the country [7:53pm] LeVentNoir: and no people could enter [7:54pm] Tashir: Cuba is a good example of a mostly scale economy [7:54pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Well then, her technology would also stagnate. [7:54pm] LeVentNoir: but she continued RPing large advancements... [7:54pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: I beg to differ. [7:54pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Cuba has some VERY free market sectors. [7:54pm] Tashir: locally their social classes are what they would be if wealthy, maybe a little more poor than normal [7:54pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: They love leaching on american tourists. [7:54pm] Tashir: Mael, they don't get many luxury imports [7:54pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: They don't need to [7:54pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: THey just need enough to fund the tourism industry. [7:55pm] Tanis[TSI]: indeed [7:55pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: And keep castro fat. [7:55pm] Tashir: the few luxury goods on the island are enough to keep them, to scale, about as expensive as ours are [7:55pm] Maelstrom_Vortex[NPO]: Besides, do you see any real social progress or human development occuring in Cuba? [7:55pm] Tashir: no, that would be spending the money [7:55pm] Tashir: [7:55pm] Rotavele[Zenith|TPA]: New topic from Kiristan [7:55pm] Tashir: you'd fuxxor your economy [7:56pm] Tanis[TSI]: You know... bashing Sumeragi is fun, but this now lost steam [7:56pm] Tanis[TSI]: lol [7:56pm] Tashir: everything in a closed economy just stagnates into a smaller scale econ. [7:56pm] Tanis[TSI]: natural porgression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerreyRough Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Just gotta love mine comments! Thats one long chat log... final reminder: join the steam group called "Cybernation News reports RolePlay" (CNRP). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacharth Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 LOL The second I look at the chat logs I see: Vince_Sixx[iRON]: Fish and Pot. I loves me some special tuna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 All you silly people... Can someone help me perchance with figuring my GDP out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Probably bigger than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Probably bigger than mine. Probably bigger than that of most other people here in CNRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 combined or individually? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 All you silly people...Can someone help me perchance with figuring my GDP out? 3. The answer is 3. Don't ask me how I know it. I just do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNA Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 All you silly people...Can someone help me perchance with figuring my GDP out? For GDP I've taken the [Avg. Gross Income Per Individual Per Day] x [Number of citizens with multiplier] x [365 days] = Yearly GDP? 3. The answer is 3. Don't ask me how I know it. I just do. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 combined or individually? You could likely combine a dozen of the smaller CNRP-countries and I'd still have a bigger GDP. 3. The answer is 3. Don't ask me how I know it. I just do. I'm afraid that you're wrong. The answer actually is Sqrt(2748-984). For GDP I've taken the [Avg. Gross Income Per Individual Per Day] x [Number of citizens with multiplier] x [365 days] = Yearly GDP?lol Seeing as I use a x400 modifier... 464.28*400*365 = 6,869,929,803,120. with x100, it would be 1,717,482,450,780. The first number, 6.8 trillion, is roughly 2 times the german GDP, at half the population. The second number is roughly half the german GDP, at half the population. In the first case, I would have a GDP per capita of 169,462.2 US$. In the second case, 42,365.06 US$. Now, which is more likely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Here is the GDP calcuation formula that LVN and I came up with. (Avg. Gross Income Per Individual Per Day) x IG citizens x 36500 That's your GDP, regardless of how many people you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Here is the GDP calcuation formula that LVN and I came up with.(Avg. Gross Income Per Individual Per Day) x IG citizens x 36500 That's your GDP, regardless of how many people you have. I thus have 1.7 trillion as GDP and 42k US$ per capita. Yay! Edit: Not like I ever spend anything in huge amounts, aside from the standard upkeep costs of my military. Edited January 21, 2009 by Lynneth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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