CNRP OOC Thread

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Just because a few disagree doesn't mean it isn't either. I wish to note the number of people actively participating in this role play and who have participated before.

I will continue to see this as Canon as to me and to the majority of people active in RP right now it seems to be perceived as such.

I also wish to note I intend to have an alternate to Nuclear Weapons as my weapons of mass destruction that will be unconventional as well, but will abide by exactly the same rules as nukes when the time comes. It will probably raise a fuss as well, but at least the RP shall not be dull or inactive.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Arynar Ventys]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='10 February 2010 - 10:48 PM' timestamp='1265870928' post='2174227']
Im not being hsotile with you or id be swearing and shouting. What I was trying to say was that just because someone doesnt believe some thing exsists doesnt mean it doesnt. Maybe God doesnt exsist or maybe he does but becuase we dont know for sure there is nothing to stop someone rping it if it only involves them or the people they are rping with.
[/quote]

There is though, and that thing is called canon. Canon is what everyone can agree on, because it is true reality, and religion isn't something that can be agreed upon entirely, because a lot of people don't see the proof in it. Also, I'm sorry for percieving your words as hostile.

@Malstrom - We never said don't RP. We just said don't call it canon.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Arynar Ventys

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='11 February 2010 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1265870988' post='2174228']
Just because a few disagree doesn't mean it isn't either. I wish to note the number of people actively participating in this role play and who have participated before.
[/quote]

Mael if push comes to shove those of us involved can and will class it as canon and those that want to cry and moan can class it as non-canon. After all the worst they can do is fill a thread with OOC talk which you can report as spam.

Either way I look forward to your continued posts,

[quote name='Arynar Ventys' date='11 February 2010 - 12:51 AM' timestamp='1265871084' post='2174229']
There is though, and that thing is called canon. Canon is what everyone can agree on, because it is true reality, and religion isn't something that can be agreed upon entirely, because a lot of people don't see the proof in it. Also, I'm sorry for percieving your words as hostile.

@Malstrom - We never said don't RP. We just said don't call it canon.
[/quote]

We have canon mars colonies even though there is no proof they could work. If a small minority said they didn't believe they could exsist then does that make them non-canon?

Edited February 11, 2010 by Kevin Kingswell

[Arynar Ventys]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='10 February 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1265871116' post='2174230']
Mael if push comes to shove those of us involved can and will class it as canon and those that want to cry and moan can class it as non-canon. After all the worst they can do is fill a thread with OOC talk which you can report as spam.

Either way I look forward to your continued posts,
[/quote]

In case you weren't reading what I was typing, that statement there by definition makes it non-canon.

No hostile intent in the above words.

edit - "We have canon mars colonies even though there is no proof they could work. If a small minority said they didn't believe they could exsist then does that make them non-canon?"

The mere fact that this is CNRP and that it's tied to CN at all states that mars colony technology is real. Therefore it is canon.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Arynar Ventys

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Arynar Ventys' date='11 February 2010 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1265871225' post='2174231']
In case you weren't reading what I was typing, that statement there by definition makes it non-canon.

No hostile intent in the above words.
[/quote]

No its non-canon to you, to those of us going along with it it is canon. Canonity all depends on choice, it is whether you choose to belive or no not belive in it.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='Arynar Ventys' date='11 February 2010 - 01:51 AM' timestamp='1265871084' post='2174229']
@Malstrom - We never said don't RP. We just said don't call it canon.
[/quote]

There is no point in continuing without the context and history of Bob behind it. That seems to be what you fail to understand or simply chose to ignore. I will continue it as canon in the context of bob, if you chose to disbelieve it IC, that is purely up to you.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Arynar Ventys' date='11 February 2010 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1265871225' post='2174231']
In case you weren't reading what I was typing, that statement there by definition makes it non-canon.

No hostile intent in the above words.

edit - "We have canon mars colonies even though there is no proof they could work. If a small minority said they didn't believe they could exsist then does that make them non-canon?"

The mere fact that this is CNRP and that it's tied to CN at all states that mars colony technology is real. Therefore it is canon.
[/quote]

Wait wait, so just because the game developers added it in we can ignore the usual its canon/not canon arguement?

[Arynar Ventys]

I think the word canon is being misconstrued here.

Canon is fact. Canon is real. Canon is something tangible. even fantasy books, which for all intents and purposes have no technological basis at all, have the 'canon' side and 'non-canon' side. 'non-canon' is something that's fictional to the thing it is referencing. 'canon' is always fact. Gods and Spirits are not something that have been proven by science, and since CNRP is run off of fact and science, within reason to the game CN itself - in reference to mars colonies- then there shouldn't be canon Gods and Spirits.

And to clarify for Kevin - Canon is something that is fact towards the thing it is referencing, and to repeat the above, non-canon is something that is not-fact, fiction, to the thing it is referencing. This is CN, mars colonies are real.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Arynar Ventys

[Kevin Kingswell]

Hmm okay well neither side is going to back down so how about anyone not believing in faith but rather science class it as non-canon and ignore mael's post and those of us believing in faith go on classing it as canon and rping it as so. As long as it doesnt cross over we should all be fine.

[Arynar Ventys]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='10 February 2010 - 11:07 PM' timestamp='1265872078' post='2174244']
Hmm okay well neither side is going to back down so how about anyone not believing in faith but rather science class it as non-canon and ignore mael's post and those of us believing in faith go on classing it as canon and rping it as so. As long as it doesnt cross over we should all be fine.
[/quote]

No, we cannot. It is non-canon, unless you can prove faith to be scientific fact in reference to CN, which is the way CNRP is run.

Edit - I would be, personally, perfectly fine with this if there was some technological basis behind it, which, being CNRP, and considering the Lynneth scene, is entirely possible.

Edit again - Another reason, which better explains our issue with this, is that Canon HAS to be accepted by the ENTIRE community, not just a select few. non-canon, on the other hand, doesn't have to be, and only involves those that involved themselves, but it has no real bearing on the ENTIRE community.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Arynar Ventys

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Arynar Ventys' date='11 February 2010 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1265872192' post='2174246']
No, we cannot. It is non-canon, unless you can prove faith to be scientific fact in reference to CN, which is the way CNRP is run.

Edit - I would be, personally, perfectly fine with this if there was some technological basis behind it, which, being CNRP, and considering the Lynneth scene, is entirely possible.
[/quote]

So what you are saying is that science beats faith? Anyway Il not go on about it I will leave Mael to go on doing what he wants and I guess if people make any OOC posts in his thread then he can always report them for spam.

[Arynar Ventys]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='10 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1265872794' post='2174258']
So what you are saying is that science beats faith? Anyway Il not go on about it I will leave Mael to go on doing what he wants and I guess if people make any OOC posts in his thread then he can always report them for spam.
[/quote]

Sorry for the essential repost, but... I think it got skipped over with the change of pages.

===

Another reason, which better explains our issue with this, is that Canon HAS to be accepted by the ENTIRE community, not just a select few. non-canon, on the other hand, doesn't have to be, and only involves those that involved themselves, but it has no real bearing on the ENTIRE community.

[Uberstein]

[quote name='Arynar Ventys' date='10 February 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1265872901' post='2174262']
Sorry for the essential repost, but... I think it got skipped over with the change of pages.

===

Another reason, which better explains our issue with this, is that Canon HAS to be accepted by the ENTIRE community, not just a select few. non-canon, on the other hand, doesn't have to be, and only involves those that involved themselves, but it has no real bearing on the ENTIRE community.
[/quote]
Checking back one last time before I go to sleep (This place is addictive).

This is entirely what I mean, it isn't about religion or science, it's about supernatural events/characters and their being canon without being accepted by the whole community.

If it isn't accepted by the community at large, then it's non-canon.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='Arynar Ventys' date='11 February 2010 - 02:09 AM' timestamp='1265872192' post='2174246']
No, we cannot. It is non-canon, unless you can prove faith to be scientific fact in reference to CN, which is the way CNRP is run.

Edit - I would be, personally, perfectly fine with this if there was some technological basis behind it, which, being CNRP, and considering the Lynneth scene, is entirely possible.

Edit again - Another reason, which better explains our issue with this, is that Canon HAS to be accepted by the ENTIRE community, not just a select few. non-canon, on the other hand, doesn't have to be, and only involves those that involved themselves, but it has no real bearing on the ENTIRE community.
[/quote]

My version of Canon seems to be far more accepted than yours is thus far. You seem to be part of the select few wanting this shot down. CNRP is not run the way you have described. The rules are not made to enforce science but to establish standards of interaction, therefore your argument is in fact wrong if you look at the original rules the intent of this is very clear otherwise if it were to enforce science, the AI and the moon base would also have to be removed as they are not proven as possible as of yet. It is not proven that a human mind can inhabit a network or a mechanical apparatus unharmed and in a state that would preserve its original form. There is, thus, no scientific basis behind the possibility of Lynneth's AI and you are applying the rules selectively based on what you believe should and should not be scientific fact. In other words, it is your opinion.

If I cannot rp this then there is no reason Lynneth should be permitted his AI. If the community can accept AI, then they can accept the patron deity of my state as being its leader whether they believe it IC or not. I'm sorry, the rules are not made to discriminate and to present ones ideas as better than any others, yet that is what you are attempting to use them for. THat said, it is a misapplication and misinterpretation to your own standard.

You will have to get a role play mod to tell me this is non-cannon. If he does, I'll expect them to also review Lynneth's situation which is an equivocal breach of known science and the mars bases and anything else which qualifies as a potential breach of known science to consider reversing all of its implementation. You have faith in Science, but no faith in God. Science has become your religion.

You say everyone in CNRP must accept something for it to become cannon, then if I or any other person accept none of it, what happens then?

Edited February 11, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='Arynar Ventys' date='11 February 2010 - 02:09 AM' timestamp='1265872192' post='2174246']
No, we cannot. It is non-canon, unless you can prove faith to be scientific fact in reference to CN, which is the way CNRP is run.

Edit - I would be, personally, perfectly fine with this if there was some technological basis behind it, which, being CNRP, and considering the Lynneth scene, is entirely possible.

Edit again - Another reason, which better explains our issue with this, is that Canon HAS to be accepted by the ENTIRE community, not just a select few. non-canon, on the other hand, doesn't have to be, and only involves those that involved themselves, but it has no real bearing on the ENTIRE community.
[/quote]

My version of Canon seems to be far more accepted than yours is thus far. You seem to be part of the select few wanting this shot down. CNRP is not run the way you have described. The rules are not made to enforce science but to establish standards of interaction, therefore your argument is in fact wrong if you look at the original rules the intent of this is very clear otherwise if it were to enforce science, the AI and the moon base/mars base would also have to be removed as they are not proven as possible as of yet. It is not proven that a human mind can inhabit a network or a mechanical apparatus unharmed and in a state that would preserve its original form. There is, thus, no scientific basis behind the possibility of Lynneth's AI and you are applying the rules selectively based on what you believe should and should not be scientific fact. In other words, it is your opinion.

If I cannot rp this, a highly restricted spiritual entity soon to become solid once more, then there is no reason Lynneth should be permitted his AI. If the community can accept AI, then they can accept the patron deity of my state as being its leader whether they believe it IC or not. I'm sorry, the rules are not made to discriminate and to present ones ideas as better than any others, yet that is what you are attempting to use them for. THat said, it is a misapplication and misinterpretation to your own standard.

You will have to get a role play mod to tell me this is non-cannon. If he does, I'll expect them to also review Lynneth's situation and everything else which is an equivocal breach of known science. You have faith in Science, but no faith in God. Science has become your religion.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Sarah Tintagyl]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='11 February 2010 - 07:39 AM' timestamp='1265873958' post='2174280']

If I cannot rp this, a highly restricted spiritual entity soon to become solid once more
[/quote]

LOL ghosts turning back into humans....no...I won't recognize that. The pendants fine...the guy coming back? Dead is dead.

[JerreyRough]

To clarify: Diberian zombies and related RP's only happen/affect those whom want it to, and will have absolutely no effect on anyone else. They give no bonuses (its more of the opposite), unless your a roleplaying looking for something to make oneself be more 'powerful' IC-wise over another, which is never my intention nor' will be. It was a roleplay that was based upon the central concept of fun, not cybernations roleplay; it is just part of cybernations roleplay because it would inevitably die otherwise and/or could link to possible effects in-game (take the current war as an example). But, because of the nature of cybernations roleplay, the community unofficially ruled it as optional to accept it as canon (it has been referenced to a couple times by IC characters not in Diberia/other countries); and that is how I think it should be.

In return for letting some of the rules...bend, in a sense, that roleplayer cannot roleplay those supernatural aspects unless all people involved accept those supernatural aspects; but if the roleplayer is currently roleplaying, say, zombies in their nation, then any outside forces attempting to interact with the nation [i]should [/i]accept those supernatural aspects. [i]***I was going somewhere with this, but I started writing the next paragraph and forgot where .***[/i]

IMO, I don't think we should bend the rules very far; and I don't think the centrally concerned party, Mael, is bending the laws of nature too much that it should be immediately be crushed by the community. Think of it this way: at one point, I was going to do (until I pulled an inactivity streak >.>) an Atlantis RP that did indeed take place on Planet Bob. Super advanced weapons, defector shields, ancient survivors, etc. under the ocean in a dome. But after that RP cycle would be finished, when the entire place would be inevitably destroyed and the technology gone, all that would be left would be a small band of survivors/people's characters. And they would only have memories; for the rest of the world, Atlantis would have never existed (this one anyway ). Perhaps it could of been "national RP". Perhaps. But it felt better when it was connected to CNRP's limitations (money, submarines, actual nations doing stuff instead of "X government/agency" often seen in movies).

In closing, I would like to remind you all that I do not have super heroes and angels and robots in mind for the supernatural aspects. Nothing supernatural in CNRP should give you any type of major advantage over another person. The supernatural should be there to make it more... fun to roleplay, like Lynneth's eye/computer thing (which I consider to still be supernatural and do not recognize it any more than you do with zombies).

[Arynar Ventys]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='10 February 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1265873723' post='2174278']
My version of Canon seems to be far more accepted than yours is thus far. You seem to be part of the select few wanting this shot down. CNRP is not run the way you have described. The rules are not made to enforce science but to establish standards of interaction, therefore your argument is in fact wrong if you look at the original rules the intent of this is very clear otherwise if it were to enforce science, the AI and the moon base would also have to be removed as they are not proven as possible as of yet. It is not proven that a human mind can inhabit a network or a mechanical apparatus unharmed and in a state that would preserve its original form. There is, thus, no scientific basis behind the possibility of Lynneth's AI and you are applying the rules selectively based on what you believe should and should not be scientific fact. In other words, it is your opinion.

If I cannot rp this then there is no reason Lynneth should be permitted his AI. If the community can accept AI, then they can accept the patron deity of my state as being its leader whether they believe it IC or not. I'm sorry, the rules are not made to discriminate and to present ones ideas as better than any others, yet that is what you are attempting to use them for. THat said, it is a misapplication and misinterpretation to your own standard.

You will have to get a role play mod to tell me this is non-cannon. If he does, I'll expect them to also review Lynneth's situation which is an equivocal breach of known science and the mars bases and anything else which qualifies as a potential breach of known science to consider reversing all of its implementation. You have faith in Science, but no faith in God. Science has become your religion.

You say everyone in CNRP must accept something for it to become cannon, then if I or any other person accept none of it, what happens then?
[/quote]


Please, please try to understand that we aren't telling you to not RP this event at all. We are simply stating that it should be, and most likely is, non-canon, because by the mere definition of non-canon, which you are agreeing upon from what you've said, is something that does not affect the community as a whole. In other words, this event will not affect the rest of us that are RPing in CNRP, as it has no bearing on the ENTIRE community.

And as for the whole science thing, I don't think you've understood or fully read some of my previous posts. Canon is in reference to the item it is referencing. In other words, Mars Bases in CN are canon, because Mars Bases exist in CN, so therefore they exist in CNRP. As for Lynneth, it is also entirely possible; as Baron stated, there have been many advances in AI technology in the past few years alone, and in all reality, given the allowance that tech can be created after you hit a certain amount of in-game tech, it should've been possible for him.

Since CN is based off of the real world, with a alternate reality spin to it, then Gods and Spirits shouldn't exist. Along a similar line of thinking, science is the most stable foundation for CNRP because it is based off of the real world. Faith and Religion have not been proven to be true fact, scientific or not. It's merely a perception at this point, a belief. It holds no more truth than a hypothesis.

Edit - I didn't read the last, so I'll respond to that as well...

I'm not saying that everyone must accept it to be canon. I'm saying that if it is canon, everyone HAS to accept it.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Arynar Ventys

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Yes, accept it in or out of character though? I'm not asking everyone to accept it in character, they can believe what they want. I'm asking them to accept it as occurring in the world out of character, a very notable difference.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Arynar Ventys]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='11 February 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1265876634' post='2174326']
Yes, accept it in or out of character though? I'm not asking everyone to accept it in character, they can believe what they want. I'm asking them to accept it as occurring in the world out of character, a very notable difference.
[/quote]

Then wouldn't that make it non-canon? After all, you're saying that not everyone HAS to accept it. Therefore, it should be non-canon.

[Manetheren]

Hey everybody (mostly Uberstein since everyone else is being perfectly reasonable): stop being whiny little kids. RP is supposed to be fun. It doesn't matter what the "rules" are, if one or more people decide to have an RP than literallly anything can happen. This forum was way better back before you spoiled meglomaniacs started trying to impose your "rules" and !@#$ on us. Its ROLE PLAYING. Get over it.

[Arynar Ventys]

[quote name='Emperor Mudd' date='11 February 2010 - 12:36 AM' timestamp='1265877391' post='2174343']
Hey everybody (mostly Uberstein since everyone else is being perfectly reasonable): stop being whiny little kids. RP is supposed to be fun. It doesn't matter what the "rules" are, if one or more people decide to have an RP than literallly anything can happen. This forum was way better back before you spoiled meglomaniacs started trying to impose your "rules" and !@#$ on us. Its ROLE PLAYING. Get over it.
[/quote]

We aren't arguing whether it's roleplaying or not, we aren't even arguing if it's allowed to be RP. We are simply requesting that it be labeled as non-canon, so that it doesn't affect EVERYBODY, instead of just the select group of people that are RPing.

Because, after all, Canon affects everybody. non-canon is selective to those that join.

Edit - to save myself from double posting...

I'm going to have to stand down from this argument. I went back and reread JerryRough's post a couple of times, and I'm afraid that I have to agree to his statements.

From what I read from your RP, this is you trying to come back into the scene again. While I would prefer a more logical solution to coming back from the dead, I can't deny you your ability to roleplay.

For this intent, I'm willing to bend the canon vs non-canon line... Proceed, even though you didn't really need my permission anyway.

Edit 2 - Again, to save from what would've been triple posting now...

I'm also going to apologize for the way I was taking this. I realized after re-reading my posts a few times that I was taking a WAY too strict approach to 'canon.' My fault entirely, won't happen again.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Arynar Ventys

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Parts of it could be considered non-cannon by some. But when my state manifests (if I decide to manifest one.. I'm still debating that) it will not be non-cannon, it will really be there. Its government may not be traditional, but it will be there.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Bacharth]

[quote name='Emperor Mudd' date='11 February 2010 - 12:36 AM' timestamp='1265877391' post='2174343']
Hey everybody (mostly Uberstein since everyone else is being perfectly reasonable): stop being whiny little kids. RP is supposed to be fun. It doesn't matter what the "rules" are, if one or more people decide to have an RP than literallly anything can happen. This forum was way better back before you spoiled meglomaniacs started trying to impose your "rules" and !@#$ on us. Its ROLE PLAYING. Get over it.
[/quote]

Here here. Everyone needs to chill out and remember that this is a game. It's not meant for arguing, it's just meant to sit back after a long hard day of work and write out what we feel.

This is not supposed to be the long hard day of work.

I'll say this, if anything kills a community fast it is taking it too seriously. I've seen many communities and games fall because of that.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

I accept the Criticisms I've heard of my idea and thank those who have supported it. I will not let minor dissent however, kill a good story, it marches on at the encouragement of the community.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex