Limitless Nexus Recognition of War

[Walshington]

Since you didn't check his links apparently, here he clearly states Dreamweaver was attacking as a member of SRA.
 

 

Weren't you complaining about context earlier? You have posted another half-truth, and based a faulty conclusion upon it. Let me help you out by providing some.  Relevant text is embiggened and in red for your perusal.

 

 

 

An official statement from the government of the Screaming Red Asses

 

 

 

Sigh.  So sorry to be posting in this thread and becoming a part of this !@#$show.  But here we are and here I go:

 

Methrage -- when you're right you're right, and you're right about a few things:

 

1) Dre4mwe4ver is at war with you.  He is also a member of SRA.  In any rational alliance leader's book, this is an act of war.  You have a valid CB.

 

2) Smurthwaite, who is also SRA, has aided Dre4mwe4ver.  This is also a valid CB for you against us.  Again, anything else would be spin.

 

3) Dre4m fighting you was done with my consent.  As I am the leader of his alliance, and essentially condone his actions, this completes the trifecta of CB's against us.

 

That said, SRA does not consider itself at war against Limited Nexus.  Dre4m is a reasonable guy, has strong and ancient ties to Brown, and wanted to take action so I let him.  I probably should have told him to go off AA, but honestly, I didn't worry about it too much.  For the record, I am not going to tell him to stop, nor am I going to ask Smurthwaite to stop aiding him.

 

So there, all laid out, is your bona fide, admitted CB against my alliance, in black and white.  By any objective measure, it is valid.

 

That said, I'm now going to beg you to not take advantage of it.  Not because I fear you or the eternal war you promise, but simply because you should obtain peace with all parties and stop this thing now. I think you should get peace and enjoy the senate seat you have won, and operate in the manner of freedom and justness you promised you would upon winning.  This is your best course of action:  show them through your actions that your election was not the disaster they all assumed. This war will only detract from that.

 

The problem you face here is that you have alienated almost all of your supporters, even reasonable ones like Margrave. When you alienate a lot of people, a reasonable man admits that he just may be part of the problem.  That is unsustainable, as relationships are key to political success.  The threat of permanent war each time you are affronted is an empty one, and only hurts your case.  Think of all the "eternal wars" that have been declared on Bob -- none of them were remotely eternal.  RUKUNU on GOONs comes closest, at three years -- no one else even comes close.

 

So the TL;DR on this:  You've got a valid CB against my alliance.  You shouldn't use it.  You should wrap up all your other wars as well.  Also, let's confine any further commentary on this to PM's -- this situation will not improve by further OWF posting.

[Sephiroth]

Weren't you complaining about context earlier? You have posted another half-truth, and based a faulty conclusion upon it. Let me help you out by providing some.  Relevant text is embiggened and in red for your perusal.
 
 


 

An official statement from the government of the Screaming Red Asses

 
 
Sigh.  So sorry to be posting in this thread and becoming a part of this !@#$show.  But here we are and here I go:
 
Methrage -- when you're right you're right, and you're right about a few things:
 
1) Dre4mwe4ver is at war with you.  He is also a member of SRA.  In any rational alliance leader's book, this is an act of war.  You have a valid CB.
 
2) Smurthwaite, who is also SRA, has aided Dre4mwe4ver.  This is also a valid CB for you against us.  Again, anything else would be spin.
 
3) Dre4m fighting you was done with my consent.  As I am the leader of his alliance, and essentially condone his actions, this completes the trifecta of CB's against us.
 
That said, SRA does not consider itself at war against Limited Nexus.  Dre4m is a reasonable guy, has strong and ancient ties to Brown, and wanted to take action so I let him.  I probably should have told him to go off AA, but honestly, I didn't worry about it too much.  For the record, I am not going to tell him to stop, nor am I going to ask Smurthwaite to stop aiding him.
 
So there, all laid out, is your bona fide, admitted CB against my alliance, in black and white.  By any objective measure, it is valid.
 
That said, I'm now going to beg you to not take advantage of it.  Not because I fear you or the eternal war you promise, but simply because you should obtain peace with all parties and stop this thing now. I think you should get peace and enjoy the senate seat you have won, and operate in the manner of freedom and justness you promised you would upon winning.  This is your best course of action:  show them through your actions that your election was not the disaster they all assumed. This war will only detract from that.
 
The problem you face here is that you have alienated almost all of your supporters, even reasonable ones like Margrave. When you alienate a lot of people, a reasonable man admits that he just may be part of the problem.  That is unsustainable, as relationships are key to political success.  The threat of permanent war each time you are affronted is an empty one, and only hurts your case.  Think of all the "eternal wars" that have been declared on Bob -- none of them were remotely eternal.  RUKUNU on GOONs comes closest, at three years -- no one else even comes close.
 
So the TL;DR on this:  You've got a valid CB against my alliance.  You shouldn't use it.  You should wrap up all your other wars as well.  Also, let's confine any further commentary on this to PM's -- this situation will not improve by further OWF posting.

Yet you yourself clearly laid out 3 very good points on why we would consider it an act of war and would have good reason to respond as such. If someone is punching you as hard as they can repeatedly and claim they don't consider it they're fighting you, you don't just keep blocking their punches. You hit them back.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Yet you yourself clearly laid out 3 very good points on why we would consider it an act of war and would have good reason to respond as such. If someone is punching you as hard as they can repeatedly and claim they don't consider it they're fighting you, you don't just keep blocking their punches. You hit them back.

 

Not the best analogy but it only needs a slight tweak.

 

To be fair, they were NOT punching as hard as they could. But they were punching, they kept do it, they said, oh, sorry buddy, no harm intended and then SMACK they do it again... at some point you get annoyed and give this guy a little swat on the nose of your own, to let him know you were serious when you said to knock it off... at which point mister I can dish it out but I will never take it goes berserk. Analogy fixed.

[Sephiroth]

Not the best analogy but it only needs a slight tweak.
 
To be fair, they were NOT punching as hard as they could. But they were punching, they kept do it, they said, oh, sorry buddy, no harm intended and then SMACK they do it again... at some point you get annoyed and give this guy a little swat on the nose of your own, to let him know you were serious when you said to knock it off... at which point mister I can dish it out but I will never take it goes berserk. Analogy fixed.

There weren't any slots left on me for any of their other nations with a lot of technology to fill after selling down enough to get in range. So I don't see how they could have been hitting me harder than they were. Edited July 18, 2015 by Methrage

[Walshington]

So I guess we're just going to ignore the half-truth you laid out and the faulty conclusion you based on that half truth?  Let me make the admission you won't -- SRA did the opposite of say that Dre4mwe4ver was attacking as part of SRA.

 

Not so hard, Meth -- I admitted shortcomings in the very announcement you quoted.  It is what good alliance leaders do, and is not a sign of weakness.

 

Now let's look at the new allegation you posted instead of the one I just shot down:

 

 

Yet you yourself clearly laid out 3 very good points on why we would consider it an act of war and would have good reason to respond as such. If someone is punching you as hard as they can repeatedly and claim they don't consider it they're fighting you, you don't just keep blocking their punches. You hit them back.

 

No, I laid out 3 CB's that that could be considered valid, and never said it was a good reason to respond as such.  In fact, I spent the better part of that post telling you what a bad idea it would be to respond as such.

 

No one was punching you as hard as they could.  It was one nation punching you.

 

Someone from GLoF just spied one of my nations. Valid CB?  Hell yes, it's a classic. It's on the CB greatest hits compilation.

 

Am I at war with GLoF?  Feel free to check your war screens, but spoiler alert:  just because you can do something, doesn't mean it is a good idea. 

[Sigrun Vapneir]

There weren't any slots left on me for any of their other nations with a lot of technology to fill after selling down enough to get in range. So I don't see how they could have been hitting me harder than they were.

 

Different time span - I am talking about earlier and you are talking about later.

 

Which is another thing that he risks being obscured behind the long lists of irrelevancies they would rather argue about. The provocations came over a long period of time. When dreamweaver first started we were at war with the BC alliances, and supposedly he came in to help them. We made peace with all of them, even dreamweaver said we had peace (wasnt he the one that posted "you have my word") and then Walsh starts it over *again.*

 

Honestly I was there and anyone that says we were aggressive or asking for it has to be either completely ignorant or just shamelessly lying, that's so far from the truth it's night and day.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Sigrun Vapneir

[Sephiroth]

So I guess we're just going to ignore the half-truth you laid out and the faulty conclusion you based on that half truth?  Let me make the admission you won't -- SRA did the opposite of say that Dre4mwe4ver was attacking as part of SRA.
 
Not so hard, Meth -- I admitted shortcomings in the very announcement you quoted.  It is what good alliance leaders do, and is not a sign of weakness.
 
Now let's look at the new allegation you posted instead of the one I just shot down:
 
 

 
No, I laid out 3 CB's that that could be considered valid, and never said it was a good reason to respond as such.  In fact, I spent the better part of that post telling you what a bad idea it would be to respond as such.
 
No one was punching you as hard as they could.  It was one nation punching you.
 
Someone from GLoF just spied one of my nations. Valid CB?  Hell yes, it's a classic. It's on the CB greatest hits compilation.
 
Am I at war with GLoF?  Feel free to check your war screens, but spoiler alert:  just because you can do something, doesn't mean it is a good idea.

You admitted he attacked while a member of SRA, so that means he attacked as a member of SRA. Whether he was also a member of BC is irrelevant. That I was also sanctioned & fighting 5 other nations, as you allowed one of your top tech heavy nations hit me repeatedly, made it worse rather than better. The Brown War was a war of aggression against me for just running for the Senate, so it was an unjust war against me you gave approval to one of your alliances heirs to attack me over.. Edited July 18, 2015 by Methrage

[Jaiar]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/127053-limitless-nexus-recognition-of-war/?p=3396944

"For the record, I am not going to tell him to stop, nor am I going to ask Smurthwaite to stop aiding him."

If this was done by other alliances and sometime closer to winter we would have a world war being planned, coalitions forming, peace mode jokes, Valhalla making statements of no one touching their friends on both sides...

[Sephiroth]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/127053-limitless-nexus-recognition-of-war/?p=3396944

"For the record, I am not going to tell him to stop, nor am I going to ask Smurthwaite to stop aiding him."

If this was done by other alliances and sometime closer to winter we would have a world war being planned, coalitions forming, peace mode jokes, Valhalla making statements of no one touching their friends on both sides...

I agree and I'm amazed when they keep trying to spin this any differently because they were dealing with us. That just hardens our resolve to keep fighting. Edited July 18, 2015 by Methrage

[Margrave]

I agree and I'm amazed when they keep trying to spin this any differently because they were dealing with us. That just hardens our resolve to keep fighting.

See my aforementioned remarks about allowing you the opportunity to die gallantly.

[KenMorningstar]

You've hated us since before we ever met, and to the best of my knowledge for absolutely no reason at all. I'm not surprised you personally are happy to see us attacked and don't care a bit about the circumstances. You've never pretended to have any honor or morals either, that's actually your best quality - at least you are not a hypocrite.
 
But you and your like are not the only ones here. If you were I would not bother posting here at all.

Let me explain why I don't like you.

Way back in the day, like 2010, we fought a war with a methrage because we raided him and he didn't like it. It was fun. He came to the mercy board and went insane, we saved it like we always do and it's public on our forums. Needless to say we sent him to ZI and laughed and someone bought him and we left him alone for a while.

Then we did it again and the same result happened. It was also funny. He went mental on the mercy boards again and also on the OWF. I even joined his dumb micro to screw up his forums just like Layton did to his actual alliance. This is where you come in. You white knighted him so hard and spun everything wrong he said as true when we didn't really care that you became an annoyance. Unfortunately we chose not to do anything to you because you didn't dare to do anything in war to raise our ire.

This process goes on for years and every time it is the same. I actually pushed multiple times for us to go full war on you and keep you staggered until bill lock but you always and some BS treaty to protect your little vanity AA.

This time though you jumped. For the first time Methrage is fighting some smaller alliances and you jumped. So now you are getting beat down and your war chest will save you in the end. And that, to me, is tragic. But at least you're using it, and buying that infra back will use up another good chunk of it. Getting that tech back is going to be harder.

And this is an open invitation. when you get back up to a good size again, I am here. Willing and waiting to beat you back down again if you want to jump. And regardless of if I say I will do it one on one I have a group of guys who are also wanting to jump just to kick you in the face for your terrible OWF posting. So if I do say lets duel me and you, I'm lying. And we will quad the crap out of you until you are dust again.

But the ONLY reason I despise you is because you are an enabler to Methface's crap and it's gone on too long and you are too in love with him to see it.

[KenMorningstar]

I agree and I'm amazed when they keep trying to spin this any differently because they were dealing with us. That just hardens our resolve to keep fighting.

They can spin it differently if they want. You are a useless micro with no real friends. They get to determine how to deal with you and since the treaty web isn't involved no one cares.

[Walshington]

You admitted he attacked while a member of SRA, so that means he attacked as a member of SRA. Whether he was also a member of BC is irrelevant. 

 

No. He attacked without jumping off AA.  He should have.  But that does not mean he attacked as a member of SRA.  How do you know this?

 

Because I told you. Repeatedly. I told you in PM's. I told you in queries. And finally, I told you in a public announcement.  I told you he was part of the Brown Cincinnati thing -- which is relevant, because you were involved in that thing.  If you STILL felt that SRA was attacking you after all that PLUS the public announcement, that is you believing what you WANT to believe.

 

As an aside, when the FAN guys were attacking you, what AA were they on?  I must have missed the public announcement from FAN in which they told you that FAN was not at war with you.

 

 

That I was also sanctioned & fighting 5 other nations, as you allowed one of your top tech heavy nations hit me repeatedly, made it worse rather than better. The Brown War was a war of aggression against me for just running for the Senate, so it was an unjust war against me you gave approval to one of your alliances heirs to attack me over..

 

Fighting 5 other nations is irrelevant, as is the Brown Continuity.

 

As an aside, how many nations were you fighting when FAN attacked? 

 

[Sephiroth]

They can spin it differently if they want. You are a useless micro with no real friends. They get to determine how to deal with you and since the treaty web isn't involved no one cares.

If they want to fool themselves into thinking that and they aren't taking heavy losses from this war, that is their choice to make. However it won't get them any closer to an end of this war when they continue doing so.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Ken, you really shouldnt raid if you arent willing to put on your big boy pants and accept the consequences in good humor.

[KenMorningstar]

Ken, you really shouldnt raid if you arent willing to put on your big boy pants and accept the consequences in good humor.

What are you taking about now? I have never not accepted the consequences of a raid. Where did you get this from?

[Sephiroth]

No. He attacked without jumping off AA.  He should have.  But that does not mean he attacked as a member of SRA.  How do you know this?
 
Because I told you. Repeatedly. I told you in PM's. I told you in queries. And finally, I told you in a public announcement.  I told you he was part of the Brown Cincinnati thing -- which is relevant, because you were involved in that thing.  If you STILL felt that SRA was attacking you after all that PLUS the public announcement, that is you believing what you WANT to believe.
 
As an aside, when the FAN guys were attacking you, what AA were they on?  I must have missed the public announcement from FAN in which they told you that FAN was not at war with you.
 
 

 
Fighting 5 other nations is irrelevant, as is the Brown Continuity.
 
As an aside, how many nations were you fighting when FAN attacked?

3 nations, so I was fighting 1 alliance at the time. However the more alliances I'm already fighting when another decides to jump in, the more likely I am to call in assistance. I've never liked the bandwaggon mentality, where an alliance sees someone is getting piled on by many other alliances already; so they decide to hop in as well. Those who join the party the latest deserve to get harder. There was no need for Dreamweaver to jump in when FAN was already providing assistance to III%. Edited July 18, 2015 by Methrage

[KenMorningstar]

If they want to fool themselves into thinking that and they aren't taking heavy losses from this war, that is their choice to make. However it won't get them any closer to an end of this war when they continue doing so.

They really aren't man. They aren't taking heavy losses. You aren't big enough to inflict heavy losses.

[Walshington]

IF SRA didnt want war they could have either declared dreamweaver rogue

 

We weren't looking for a war here but he absolutely refused to take even the smallest action to distance his alliance from these attacks. 

 

I did not declare Dre4m rogue.  I did declare him to be acting outside of SRA, in in conformance with his Brown Conundrum treaty. I also made a public announcement to that effect.  I also informed Meth that he, and anyone who aided him, to be fair game.  

 

Those, to me, are actions taken to distance my alliance from Dre4ms actions.  And more than the smallest.

 

Question for you:  You told me that you considered yourself at war with me on June 7, the day Dre4m attacked. At what point did you consider yourself at war with FAN?

 

ME   06:26:26: But he felt he ad to teach me a lesson.

YOU 06:26:26: which we will do
YOU 06:26:49: and anyone else that might think they can pull what dreamweaver did on us without consequences

[Walshington]

3 nations, so I was fighting 1 alliance at the time. However the more alliances I'm already fighting when another decides to jump in, the more likely I am to call in assistance. I've never liked the bandwaggon mentality, where an alliance sees someone is getting piled on by many other alliances already; so they decide to hop in as well. Those who join the party the latest deserve to get harder. There was no need for Dreamweaver to jump in when FAN was already providing assistance to III%.

 

All three were from FAN?  I thought it was only 2.

 

My other question was "when the FAN guys were attacking you, what AA were they on?  I must have missed the public announcement from FAN in which they told you that FAN was not at war with you."

 

Edited for misreading his answer.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Walshington

[Sephiroth]

I did not declare Dre4m rogue.  I did declare him to be acting outside of SRA, in in conformance with his Brown Conundrum treaty. I also made a public announcement to that effect.  I also informed Meth that he, and anyone who aided him, to be fair game.  
 
Those, to me, are actions taken to distance my alliance from Dre4ms actions.  And more than the smallest.
 
Question for you:  You told me that you considered yourself at war with me on June 7, the day Dre4m attacked. At what point did you consider yourself at war with FAN?
 
ME   06:26:26: But he felt he ad to teach me a lesson.
YOU 06:26:26: which we will do
YOU 06:26:49: and anyone else that might think they can pull what dreamweaver did on us without consequences

The duration my wars lasted with them, however I probably got more loot off them than I lost. Also each nuke they sent saved me from taking a lot of extra damage due to Dreamweaver jumping in.

Also I expected better of SRA, but when you responded with ""For the record, I am not going to tell him to stop, nor am I going to ask Smurthwaite to stop aiding him."; that showed a lesson needed to be taught. You seemed to think no respect was required in dealing with us after one of your members attacked me in an aggressive war. Edited July 18, 2015 by Methrage

[Walshington]

They really aren't man. They aren't taking heavy losses. You aren't big enough to inflict heavy losses.

 

Eh, you can't fight the Pulishers, the Sigruns and the other big NoR ghost without taking some losses.  Cost of doing bidness. 10K tech is 10K tech -- those nukes hurt.

[Walshington]

The duration my wars lasted with them, however I probably got more loot off them than I lost. Also each nuke they sent saved me from taking a lot of extra damage due to Dreamweaver jumping in.

Also I expected better of SRA, but when you responded with ""For the record, I am not going to tell him to stop, nor am I going to ask Smurthwaite to stop aiding him."; that showed a lesson needed to be taught. You seemed to think no respect was required in dealing with us after one of your members attacked me in an aggressive war.

 

Actually, the FAN guys and Dre4m wars lasted exactly the same length -- one round.

 

Again, that wasn't what I asked.  What I asked was:

 

What AA were the FAN guys on when they attacked you?  And did they tell you it did not represent the FAN AA?   Because I didn't see a public announcement.  Did it happen in private?

[Sephiroth]

Actually, the FAN guys and Dre4m wars lasted exactly the same length -- one round.
 
Again, that wasn't what I asked.  What I asked was:
 
What AA were the FAN guys on when they attacked you?  And did they tell you it did not represent the FAN AA?   Because I didn't see a public announcement.  Did it happen in private?

They told me after the round was over, our war with FAN would be over. Regardless of anything else. So it was agreed upon early on we were only fighting for 1 round.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

And that is yet another irrelevant detail Walsh has dragged up and it's been explained multiple times and he keeps dragging it up and demanding that it be answered again and again. It's so tiresome.

 

FAN hit you in good humor and you communicated and everything was worked out fine. Just as everything would have been worked out fine with SRA as well, had Walsh not been pursuing a different agenda.