Triyun Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Its you're wrong KK. It is what it is. Spyroll failure has consequences. Its a risk you take, its not a free lunch. Again I'm giving you this warning, if you want to proceed go ahead. Its fine with me either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1333479758' post='2947928'] Its you're wrong KK. It is what it is. Spyroll failure has consequences. Its a risk you take, its not a free lunch. Again I'm giving you this warning, if you want to proceed go ahead. Its fine with me either way. [/quote] I think you mis understand Triyun, I am not saying that the roll can't fail and that the team can't be found but seeing as how I am not doing any actual infiltration of the bases if I do fail the roll then I would accept that they may have been discovered somehow but it would be up to you and Cent to describe how you found them. In otherwords its less to do with them failing at getting onto the bases which they havn't tried and more to do with your forces finding their hides okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKrolm Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1333479758' post='2947928'] Its you're wrong KK. It is what it is. Spyroll failure has consequences. Its a risk you take, its not a free lunch. Again I'm giving you this warning, if you want to proceed go ahead. Its fine with me either way. [/quote] Is this a change to the way spy rolls work? In the past, the player who initiated the spy roll has been able to write how it failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I have to admit, both Centurius and Triyun are not making sense. Right now this is an observation spy roll, not an infiltration one. Since there had been no precedent with a passive observation spy roll failure resulting an dire consequences, just how is it that we suddenly overturn this and say Kevin has to be discovered? I am certainly not understanding this. Furthermore, since this is a spy roll on Centurius and Triyun, shouldn't TSS be the one who decides this, given that there is no clash of conflicts in his case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 [quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1333480511' post='2947937'] I have to admit, both Centurius and Triyun are not making sense. Right now this is an observation spy roll, not an infiltration one. Since there had been no precedent with a passive observation spy roll failure resulting an dire consequences, just how is it that we suddenly overturn this and say Kevin has to be discovered? I am certainly not understanding this. Furthermore, since this is a spy roll on Centurius and Triyun, shouldn't TSS be the one who decides this, given that there is no clash of conflicts in his case? [/quote] I said that I don't mind which GM does the roll as I trust them to not fake a number. Also to clear up once and for all I do accept that the roll can fail but I am leaving it up to Tri and Cent to describe how they discover my teams after all I can't RP their soldiers/citizens anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKrolm Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) ignore please Edited April 3, 2012 by iKrolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Wilding Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 We're assuming that patrols in the area wouldn't find Kevin's team, which is a very likely possibility in any military or special operation. That's why the roll needs to be done, to get past the patrols that are invariably in the area and would be looking for intruders of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Unless the patrols are conveniently going far beyond what would be usual for patrols, I don't see the validity of the argument. Since neither ever RPed that their patrols were on high alert, there is no real reason short of metagaming for the patrols to have even a remote chance of discovering Kevin's people who, from the post, were deliberately stationed far away from what would be feasible for patrols to be able to observe any suspicious movements. Now, frankly, I do see where the two GMs are going, but given how spy rolls have been done in the past, this sudden reversal seems rather out of place, unless we this now means the spied upon has recourse to any failed spy rolls (which I'm not sure if it's a good idea). @ Kevin: Not the actual rolling, I was discussing on what the results of the rolls should be. Edited April 3, 2012 by Kankou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I didn't know GMs warned against spy rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Natal is not under the military control of Kevin unless he's breaking the treaty. The territory is administered by Tianxia and Athens. Unless KK is breaking the treaty and infiltrating I don't believe he could be doing this type of mission. As for the circumstances of why he requested the spyroll I wasn't involved in that conversation so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. And EM you're raising a red herring, I think you know it. Its perfectly sensible to raise the possibility of war with a much larger player by a weaker player. I think common sense says its good sportsmanship. I'm sorry if that offends your sensibilities but I believe its the responsible thing to do in this case. At iKrolm, that is not how it works actually. What you're describing is easily abused. Basically it could lead to someone spamming spy rolls without the possibility of actual detection even on failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Ah then it seems I have been rping Natal wrongly all this time then. I had actually mentioned somewhere that I established my own military base in the area and even had the territory added to mine on the world map. Now though it seems I got the actual situation mixed up through confusion, sorry about that. If its okay with you and Cent Triyun could we just wipe this special ops RP as well as any mention of me having forces in Natal itself? Didn't mean to break any rules/treaties just misunderstood our one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) I can see the argument, but the original treaty was contradictory in how it laid out matters: [quote]Article I. Natal shall become the territory of the Imperium. It shall be considered sovereign territory of the Imperium until such time as the Imperium ceases to be or cedes it to another nation. Should the Imperium cease to be, it shall become a protectorate of Tianxia and Athens. The Imperium may not cede sovereignty of Natal to any other nation without consulting Tianxia and Athens. Article II. The Imperium shall bestow upon Tianxia and Athens a mandate to govern Natal, but shall appoint an advisor to the Administrative Authority. This mandate shall be predicated on Tianxia and Athens maintaining and ideall improving living standards in Natal. This mandate must be cancelled with the consent of all parties. Additionally the Imperium shall be granted an embassy within Natal.[/quote] Given that Kevin did have sovereignty over Natal, there was no real reason to deny Kevin military access to Natal unless it had been specifically RPed. It is this less than Kwantung but more than occupation wording which has Kevin (based on my impression from talking about this through our RP) confused about whether he does have control over Natal or not. To simply write this off as "Kevin violated the treaty" isn't really the best course of action. *Makes notes to write her treaties crystal clear* Edited April 3, 2012 by Kankou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Administration I think is quite clear. However, how we choose to interpret actions IC is not really the business of the GM court, its the business of IC. Cent and I can interpret the treaty however we wish as can anyone interpret anything however they wish. I think saying we governed it is quite clear. I'm fine with that wipe too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Enema Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Awww shucks.. Another one of Kankou's plans down the toilet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 No objections to a wipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malatose Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Kankou is claiming to play the Republic of Zeon in space here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=110354, yet she is also playing Swedish soldiers and commanding their loyalty along with their equipment here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=110327&view=findpost&p=2954133 this is clearly claiming two seperate nations as the two have no history together or IC reason to join together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 I'm inclined to agree. I believe if I am looking at the threads correctly Kankou rerolled from GP. She then created the Republic of Zeon based on her GP characters and is now also claiming to have militia forces fighting in Scandinavia who appear to be using the weapons of ShammySocialist's nation there. Obviously neither of these two nations has a history of RPing with one another, nor has there been any RP of an attempted merge. Therefore this can only be seen as making two nations. The Republic of Zeon CAN dispute German claims to the territory at the moment as Martens has left the merge but it must use its forces from GP to do so. OR Kankou can RP a Scandinavian Military force which contests Malatose along with any other force which contests Scandinavia within the two week open period, similar to the Irish dispute between Voodoo and PD a few months back. However you clearly can't have a bunch of space faring Pacific Islanders suddenly claim the loyalty of a completely unrelated military force in Scandinavia with zero RP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 The latter; the Republic of Zeon is a constitute republic of Grand Papua, and since Australia/OU will be protecting/annexing Grand Papua (and thus the Republic of Zeon), this should be of adequate satisfaction. Have a lovely day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Given that Scandinavia is not yet a state on its own and should Kankou give up her GP lands before declaring a Scandinavian state, I see this similar as what TBM pulled in Somalia, while still having Cambodia. The rebels there came out of his troop count, they were Somalians and rather unrelated to the Cambodians, apart from Cambodia going to war with me with the Horde over this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Enema Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Yeah, I'm just going to shoot Dalian De Vicadali now. I'm tired of you whining about what I did in Somalia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generalissimo Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 It’s a legitimate example pertaining to Kankou circumstances. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted April 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Legion was in the past closer to an organization than it was a nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generalissimo Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1334583882' post='2954257'] Legion was in the past closer to an organization than it was a nation. [/quote]Accurate depiction of Legion’s circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) There is a legitimate example of Artemis for example existing as a seperate force from Sargun's normal military. Same with Yawoo's mercs. Personally I thought those weren't the best GM decisions in the world, but they were there. The Legion was as I understood their history always a merc group in that respect. What further complicates things is the fact that she posted Zeon about 2 minutes before she nuked the piss out of GP and rerolled. This is different because she basically was RPing two seperate state loyalties and then using both at the same time with zero lead up RP. Further it really doesn't seem like she's giving up Zeon unless she's doing some rather shady OOC land gifting deal here, something which I have been informed has been wiped before. GMs will consult privately on this. Edited April 16, 2012 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Again, Triyun: Grand Papua is a federation, and the Republic of Zeon is part of Grand Papua. It's just like how you formed the Republic of the Pacific and whatnot. Is this something above your comprehension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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