The GM's Court

[Generalissimo]

[quote name='iKrolm' timestamp='1330831352' post='2932869']Please point to the specific violations within the Case: Yellow thread that warrant a wipe without allowing participants to edit their posts?[/quote]What violations?
Asking for clarification is a reasonable request.

[AironthFlamewing]

Not to dogpile, but there does seem to be a lot of biased GM'ing... In my opinion, GM's should not be allowed to have nations or any involvement in CNRP (beyond knowledge of the rules) becausr otherwise they could be sucked into one of the many cliques of CNRP and like all cliques they will stick together and only decide what helps benefit them in the long run.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='graniteknight' timestamp='1330837819' post='2932967']
Not to dogpile, but there does seem to be a lot of biased GM'ing... In my opinion, GM's should not be allowed to have nations or any involvement in CNRP (beyond knowledge of the rules) becausr otherwise they could be sucked into one of the many cliques of CNRP and like all cliques they will stick together and only decide what helps benefit them in the long run.
[/quote]

As people have asked for evidence of abuse, where is the evidence for GM's acting in a biased manner?

[Kankou]

I'll leave the post-wipe discussions to those that want them, unless called upon. In the meantime.....


[quote name='graniteknight' timestamp='1330837819' post='2932967']
Not to dogpile, but there does seem to be a lot of biased GM'ing... In my opinion, GM's should not be allowed to have nations or any involvement in CNRP (beyond knowledge of the rules) becausr otherwise they could be sucked into one of the many cliques of CNRP and like all cliques they will stick together and only decide what helps benefit them in the long run.
[/quote]
Now come on, who the hell would want to be GM of unruly CNRP if they weren't interested in having a nation in the first place? And frankly, most of the current GM team are the most neutral figures I've seen, splitting IC and OOC strictly.

[TheShammySocialist]

[quote name='graniteknight' timestamp='1330837819' post='2932967']
In my opinion, GM's should not be allowed to have nations or any involvement in CNRP (beyond knowledge of the rules) becausr otherwise they could be sucked into one of the many cliques of CNRP and like all cliques they will stick together and only decide what helps benefit them in the long run.
[/quote]

Alright, you can pursue a campaign in the community to do this, but the minute its implemented, if it is at all, consider it to be my resignation. Because, to be honest, I'm not going to come on CNRP to just be a judge for people, and just basically be a complaint department. GMs were chosen by the community and the mods based on the belief that these were the people least likely to be corrupt in their positions, and have a good grip of IC/OOC boundaries.

I'm not going to be a part of CNRP if I can't have a nation and just exist to listen to people's problems and be what is tantamount to being a judge/jury. There is no enjoyment in that, and I will not suffer being reduced to that. If you want to accuse the GM team of biased decisions, I suggest taking it up with the Mod Staff, and we'll go from there. But don't think that the GM team is going to just exist as exclusively OOC judges and derive no fun from playing this game.

Being a GM isn't a fun role, and taking away my country takes away my reason for being here. I wouldn't be a GM if I couldn't be part of the IC community.

Edited March 4, 2012 by TheShammySocialist

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1330816973' post='2932732']
Posting to confirm this decision. Additionally I'm reminding everyone that territorial waters is not grounds for SDI use. Territorial waters is purely an IC claim, its got no map validity. I.E. you can't claim 500 kilos of territorial waters and then claim your SDI goes out that far. The Oceanic protectorate would only apply in cases with direct island overflight. Either way the war is wiped, just for future reference.
[/quote]
However, pretty much all the water is covered by the bigger islands from any logical trajectory you care to pick. Just noting this because people seem to be overlooking that fact.

[quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1330834476' post='2932922']
I would just like to note that I support the content of both of these posts.
[/quote]
As do I, for what it counts. I know it's not much.

[quote name='Generalissimo' timestamp='1330837202' post='2932950']
What violations?
Asking for clarification is a reasonable request.
[/quote]
This.

[Kankou]

[quote name='Subtleknifewielder' timestamp='1330839714' post='2932993']
However, pretty much all the water is covered by the bigger islands from any logical trajectory you care to pick. Just noting this because people seem to be overlooking that fact.[/quote]
I have trouble understand why people would ignore this fact. That being said, I'm personally against the wipe (totally illogical, I would say), but wouldn't raise up a tempest unless we have a strong group of people advocating for making the war canon.

Although, I think part of reason for the wipe is to avoid having to roll at least 50 times and at most 100 times a day because of Malatose, which I can sympathize with. Seems like some people can't bear losing, having had all previous wars end up with the other side quitting, and had to pull trollish moves.

[Centurius]

As pointed out on IRC several times by several gm's the war was filled with godmods and other rule violations made by both sides. While each violation in itself would have been subject to a simple fixing the collective of them all make the war a lost cause. It is in this context that by a majority the GM team has ruled the war should hold no canon validity. This measure works both ways as while Vekt loses nothing neither does Kankou. The entire situation is as it was pre-war which I believe actually works more to the advantage of Grand Papua than it does to Germany.

[Triyun]

Not the first war to be wiped for wide spread god modes, I'm hoping its the last, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Kankou]

My opposition is based on the supposed violations (a list of them would most likely make the people understand) and the way neither of the related parties (Malatose and myself) were notified prior to such a ruling being finalized. I know I have all to gain and nothing to lose (unlike the other side) if a wipe happens, yet as I was up in arms in the past, the way the GM team can just slap a ruling without input from the related parties, and the rather ambiguous reasoning (godmods and other rule violations) without any concrete examples, are the reasons why I do this. There is also the issue of some GMs being smug about their words being final as if they're entitled to dictate things when the people in general might be against the measures.

Again, my opposition is based on principles, and not at the specific ruling in itself. I believe that if such issues would be addressed more clearly and publicly, we wouldn't be having at least five people asking for the reasons and examples.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Kankou

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1330882026' post='2933231']
My opposition is based on the supposed violations (a list of them would most likely make the people understand) and the way neither of the related parties (Malatose and myself) were notified prior to such a ruling being finalized. I know I have all to gain and nothing to lose (unlike the other side) if a wipe happens, yet as I was up in arms in the past, the way the GM team can just slap a ruling without input from the related parties, and the rather ambiguous reasoning (godmods and other rule violations) without any concrete examples, are the reasons why I do this. There is also the issue of some GMs being smug about their words being final as if they're entitled to dictate things when the people in general might be against the measures.

Again, my opposition is based on principles, and not at the specific ruling in itself. I believe that if such issues would be addressed more clearly and publicly, we wouldn't be having at least five people asking for the reasons and examples.
[/quote]

Only four RPers have requested reasons. The reasons were given and now the next thing you can do is to ask HK or another RP mod to stop by and clarify on what you believe is the overstepping of GM's.

[iKrolm]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1330880425' post='2933219']
As pointed out on IRC several times by several gm's the war was filled with godmods and other rule violations made by both sides. While each violation in itself would have been subject to a simple fixing the collective of them all make the war a lost cause. It is in this context that by a majority the GM team has ruled the war should hold no canon validity. This measure works both ways as while Vekt loses nothing neither does Kankou. The entire situation is as it was pre-war which I believe actually works more to the advantage of Grand Papua than it does to Germany.
[/quote]


That does not answer my question: please point to the [u]specific[/u] godmods within the thread.


edit: @Voodoo: 5 players including two involved and two former GMs have requested that the current GM team to elaborate upon the ruling. I do not believe it is unreasonable to ask the GMs to point to a couple posts or sections of posts and say "This is godmodding. It deserves to be wiped because..."

Edited March 4, 2012 by iKrolm

[Executive Minister]

Fine, please elaborate GMs upon your ruling. I feel this wipe has resulted in the loss of a perfectly good reason for no one to IC'ly fear Greater Germany any more, and would be a sore loss for everyone.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Executive Minister

[Michael McBride]

For what it's worth, I'd be willing to give my IC nation to judge things purely on an outside, impartial basis. I know not all would, but it would be something I'd be willing to do.

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1330887187' post='2933268']
Only four RPers have requested reasons. The reasons were given and now the next thing you can do is to ask HK or another RP mod to stop by and clarify on what you believe is the overstepping of GM's.
[/quote]
This isn't how it works.
If even [b]one[/b] player requests further details or examples of 'godmods', they should be given. GMs are not above the players in any way. Anything they decide or rule on, they have to be ready and able to justify.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1330965671' post='2933975']
This isn't how it works.
If even [b]one[/b] player requests further details or examples of 'godmods', they should be given. GMs are not above the players in any way. Anything they decide or rule on, they have to be ready and able to justify.
[/quote]

I didn't say otherwise.

[Tanis777]

[quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1330965671' post='2933975']
This isn't how it works.
If even [b]one[/b] player requests further details or examples of 'godmods', they should be given. GMs are not above the players in any way. Anything they decide or rule on, they have to be ready and able to justify.
[/quote]

I agree.

iKrolm has asked why for a detailed opinion and examples of the ruling. Being a GM is like being a judge, you simply cannot say "I rule this way because I said so." or "I'm sick of the bickering, so I rule this way." You had an opinion based on specific evidence presented in the thread, and one's opinion must be backed with that specific evidence. You cannot be a GM without taking the pains of this reality, or if you can't, you shouldn't be a GM.

[Generalissimo]

[quote name='Tanis777' timestamp='1330974521' post='2934045']Being a GM is like being a judge, you simply cannot say "I rule this way because I said so." or "I'm sick of the bickering, so I rule this way."[/quote]This!

[iKrolm]

It's been more than 48 hours, so I would like to repeat my request to the GM's Court one more time: please explain in detail why Case: Yellow was wiped.

[Centurius]

[quote name='iKrolm' timestamp='1331076630' post='2934779']
It's been more than 48 hours, so I would like to repeat my request to the GM's Court one more time: please explain in detail why Case: Yellow was wiped.
[/quote]

Triyun should outline it later today, I've been a bit busy with a major statistics assignment the last three days so couldn't compile the list of offenses.

[Centurius]

Just from 2 of the first posts and the last post in the thread, without specifically pointing out those violations made in between there already is enough cause for a wipe which I will outline here. Bold used for violations, cursive for borderline parts.

[quote name='Malatose' timestamp='1330131633' post='2927785']
[b]Air War[/b]

As the Luftwaffe fighters and bombers began to make their short journey home, dozens of balloons began to explode into the skies. Unleashed from these balloons were tons of volanic dust, catching Luftwaffe pilots by surprise. Caught by total suprise, a few number of fighters and some bombers flew directly into the mess. This resulted in various adverse effects. For example, some of the engines on the Ankriats and Lu-67s were damaged, which resulted in a in a number of quick emergency landings. However, as Avalon bases were close by the area of operations, a large number of crashes were avoided. [b]Fighters, using their superior manueverability, simply swept around the plumes of smoke; while, bombers flew around or climbed to maximum altitudes to avoid trouble altogether.[/b] The bombers and fighters that were damaged simply had their engines replaced and were ready for combat operations within twelve hours.

With the first round of operations considered a large success, the Luftwaffe began their next around of operations. Leading the charge again were two squadrons of Ankriats, escorted by Lu-67s. With the Volanic plumes still in the air, the pilots were ordered to stay away and engage the enemy with stand-off munitions. [i]As the bombers neared the "safe" zone of execution[/i], the basic payload of twenty Valhalla Air Supression Missiles were launched. However, unlike the last warheads which consisted of the basic high explosives, these Valhalla Missiles were equipped with High-power microwave (HPM) / E-Bomb warheads. With the Grand Papuan network still in state of total disarray, the missiles would fly to various points over Grand Papua and explode, [i]sending high powered frequencies that would penetrate most shielded and unshielded electronic equipement.
[/i]
[b]Space Forces[/b]

The initial strike was considered a success, and Oberkommando der Luftwaffe ordered another strike against Grand Papua. From bases in Greater Germany, thirty intercontinental ballistic missiles were launched against air fields throughout Grand Papua. This strike was designed to finish off and eliminate the possibility of Grand Papuan air resistance.

An additional ten intercontinental ballistic missiles were also launched. These ICBMs were equipped with large (HPM) / E-Bomb warheads. As the warheads entered airspace over Grand Papua, they would explode, damaging electronic devices not already dead from the previous cruise missile strikes.

After two hours, one last and final strike was launched. ten intercontinental ballistic missiles, equipped with fifty kinectic kill vehicles each, were launched. As the missiles entered space, they unleashed their deadly payloads, which would ravage and destroy Grand Papua satellites sationed over Germany.

[b]Indian Ocean [/b]

Despite the fact that the Jörmungandr submarines had unleashed it's payloads of ICBMs, their advanced sensor suites were still watching the surrounding areas, along with the ASW shield that was set up. Therefore, the submarines had detected the launch of enemy torpedos, thanks to their use of Sail-Mounted Passive/Active Search/Attack Radar, tactical Towed Sonar Array, and active/passive sonar array. Some of the submarines resorted to the use of dropping anti-torpedo mine systems, which were designed to track and home in on incoming torpedos, slamming into their warheads and destroying them suddenly. The close shockwaves caused two of the Jörmungandr submarines to surface. Two other submarines were destroyed, as outright, as they were unable to deploy their counter measures quick enough.

As a result Oberkommando der Marine ordered the activation of atleast two submarines from the reserve fleet that would replace losses and the activation of five thousand sailors from the reserve pool.

ASW, in the Indian, were to be intensified with around the clock patrols.
[/quote]

The bolded part about the fighters is relatively obvious, even with advanced processing, the most elite fighters and most mobile aircraft the simple issue is still that the ash will be pretty hard to see/detect initially and as such it would take longer to react.

The cursive part is because while it is not completely impossible it seems very unlikely to know what a safezone would actually be also while suggestion of casualties is generally accepted this is pushing it.


[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1330144966' post='2927904']
[b]Air Force Command Actions[/b]

When the second wave of bombers were coming, fourteen HPM cruise missiles were launched at the wave. Making sure that the area of influence was not anywhere near the territorial waters/land/airspace of Avalon or its protectorate, the E-weapons exploded.. Airplanes were next to impossible to protect as fully as land structures even when incorporating fly-by-light, and the HPMs would fry at least one-fifth of the bombers/fighters and half of the Valhallas. The Valhallas that did get past after fighting through the AA systems which included the BRAMS (numbering only four) would completely shut down two-thirds of the old legacy radars on Neupommern, finally bringing down just one part of the radar network. There were plenty of backups to deal with the Germans, of course.

Things were now escalating very quickly.


OOC: Need to discuss about ash, since there is something quite godmodeish about Malatose's post. Also, what the heck is a "safe" zone of execution? I need to know before I revise my post.



[b]Air Base Happenings[/b]

With the activation of the Selenactos air defense system, things were now made easier. Only nine of the ICBMs launched at the air fields managed to get through, and at most they put out of commission one-sixth of the total bases that Grand Papua had. With the escalation of defense through Selenactos, it seemed that for now the crippling of air defense would be stalled indefinitely, as emergency strips are opened and the underground/cave bases, hidden from satellites, were prepared for operations.

The HPM bombs were a bit of a surprise, but at the same time, not something to be really concerned about in military terms. Due to the gigahertz-band frequencies (4 to 20 GHz) involved, HPM is supposed to have the capability to penetrate not only radio front-ends, but also the most minute shielding penetrations throughout the equipment. Yet, what if it was possible to block such power? Aside from the regular use fiber optic circuitry which essentially saved the processing powers of stations, the use of filter networks and high speed Zener diodes allowed a large majority of the radar stations to weather the onslaught. There were of course an inevitable 20% failure rate and general degrading of services, but with only two bombs reaching western Grand Papua, which already had the buffer of the Indonesian islands, the loss of those facilities were not of much consequences.


[b]Space[/b]

[b]A satellite each from the Nordstern Navigation System and the Hrafnaguð Reconnaissance Satellite System were destroyed in the waste of resources conducted by the Germans. With almost all satellites looking at Germany from well outside the area of continental Europe, the Germans made the fundamental mistake of putting enough dubris into space to cause chaos in the space above most of the northern hemisphere.[/b] A message was sent to the Lunar Republic to have the trash cleaned up before further damages were done.


[b]Indian Ocean[/b]

As a principle, Grand Papua did not use ICBMs. Rather, at most IRBMs were used, and most of them had a throw-weight of 10 tons. The reason for this was to install special thermobaric warheads capable of 100 ton-TNT explosions. These were strategic weapons, used for destroying large concentration of forces. Such a force included MOBs.

However, use of such strategic weapons without any public declaration of war could be disasterous, since it was difficult to differentiate nuclear and non-nuclear weapons when things went to the hundred ton range. Therefore, three ASBMs were launched at the surfaced submarines each, and thirty ASBMs were to be fired at the massive German MOB that was near the submarines. It was impossible to attack the German fleets to the east for now, as long as they cowardly stayed in the shadows of Avalon.



It was decided to give the Germans a bit more time for any official declarations. In the meantime, a message was sent to Selenactos to [b]NOT[/b] intervene in this conflict, for there was the large possibility that with the Athen Pacific Fleet out in the Pacific, any nations coming to Grand Papua's aid might bring in the Union into this war. Therefore, the request was to only provide anti-BM defenses from the Philippines and the Oceanic Union protectorate, and detection support. No forces of any kind were to be involved unless other nations outside of Grand Papua and Germany came into this.
[/quote]

Do I really have to outline the bolded part? It is not only a blatant godmod but in addition to that it breaks the rule of closed threads by in essence involving dozens of other players.


[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1330808740' post='2932658']
[b]With the ICBMs having to fly over either the Oceanic Union Protectorate or Selenactos, around 85~90% were shot down every day. This meant a daily success rate of 6~8 weapons, which was not enough to even be considered as little more than a nuisance.[/b] The weapons that did fell would hit mainly military targets and the occasional governmental building in the western parts of the country, which would be patched up relatively quickly. Coming with a bang and leaving with a whisper, this small incident showed the structural weakness of the German fascists, which needed to rely on overwhelming support of allies to do anything, which was usually just the mop-up. A socialist victory was gained, only strengthening the unity of that nation beyond what the Nozis could only dream of.

In the end, Grand Papua gained everything it could want and suffered only minimum losses in terms of materials and lives, while Germany continued its defeats. Supported only by Athens, it was certain that when the clash of titans occurred, the flag of Visari will be torn apart.


Permanently.
[/quote]

With such low casualties this shootdown rate too is a godmod as no matter how many nations you have in between you're not going to shoot down 90%.

Combine this with the other posts and the godmod/war posts ratio I believe there is plenty of cause for the wipe as the godmods have changed the course of the war at more than one point.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Centurius

[Kankou]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1331145828' post='2935089']
Do I really have to outline the bolded part? It is not only a blatant godmod but in addition to that it breaks the rule of closed threads by in essence involving dozens of other players.[/quote]
I believe I have constantly discussed the just how stupid and idiotic using cluster explosions in space is. Furthermore, I had the Lunar Republic take care of the situation before it would become a problem. Here's the exact situation:

[quote]the Germans made the fundamental mistake of putting enough dubris into space to cause chaos in the space above most of the northern hemisphere.[/quote]

I've described the debris amount, not the actual act of causing chaos. If you read the post right after it, the Lunar Republic cleans up the mess so no other satellite would be affected. I've managed to get the problem solved without the truly godmodish way people are able to avoid damages if they want even if a 19 megaton nuke exploded right across from their borders. Exactly how is this a godmod again?



[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1331145828' post='2935089']With such low casualties this shootdown rate too is a godmod as no matter how many nations you have in between you're not going to shoot down 90%.[/quote]
40% x 40% = 16% survival rate. If there are three countries, then it would be 6.4%.

Also, given just how far away the ICBMs came from, I would have more than 60% shoot down percentage through each SDI roll. Of course, this part is arguable, but the basic math states that at least 79~89% of all missiles would be shot down.



And before more "examples" are brought up, I'll explain the basic situation of why I have next to no casualties:

1. Firing missiles that do not even reach New Guinea.
2. Using HPM bombs on ICBMs when such bombs have a range of only about a hundred meters or so. <- I still gave him a 20% destruction rate despite that there weren't enough weapons to even reach 20% of my radar network area-wise.



Can you please bring up any valid examples from my side? If there were godmods, all of them would be on Malatose's side, such as:

1. Impossible detection of volcanic ashes using manuevers <- Already mentioned

2. Launching 480 HPM bombs in a single wave (two squadrons of Ankriats with each bomber launching twenty Valhalla Air Supression Missiles armed with HPM bombs) <- Where did the 50 IG CM rule go?

3. Using physically impossible anti-submarine missiles created out of nowhere and which does not have anything resembling it in RL, with ranges which goes far beyond any ASROCs in existence. <- Triyun tried to save this crap saying that people can have any ammunition they want, but come on, you have to respect basic physics, otherwise is this some kind of magical fantasy?



Being the generous person that I am, I chose to allow Malatose to happily spam around. I don't see why the GMs would use the actions of the losing side to wipe a war when the other side is fine with all the crap moves being pulled.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1331147246' post='2935101']
I believe I have constantly discussed the just how stupid and idiotic using cluster explosions in space is. Furthermore, I had the Lunar Republic take care of the situation before it would become a problem. Here's the exact situation:



I've described the debris amount, not the actual act of causing chaos. If you read the post right after it, the Lunar Republic cleans up the mess so no other satellite would be affected. I've managed to get the problem solved without the truly godmodish way people are able to avoid damages if they want even if a 19 megaton nuke exploded right across from their borders. Exactly how is this a godmod again?




40% x 40% = 16% survival rate. If there are three countries, then it would be 6.4%.

Also, given just how far away the ICBMs came from, I would have more than 60% shoot down percentage through each SDI roll. Of course, this part is arguable, but the basic math states that at least 79~89% of all missiles would be shot down.



And before more "examples" are brought up, I'll explain the basic situation of why I have next to no casualties:

1. Firing missiles that do not even reach New Guinea.
2. Using HPM bombs on ICBMs when such bombs have a range of only about a hundred meters or so. <- I still gave him a 20% destruction rate despite that there weren't enough weapons to even reach 20% of my radar network area-wise.



Can you please bring up any valid examples from my side? If there were godmods, all of them would be on Malatose's side, such as:

1. Impossible detection of volcanic ashes using manuevers <- Already mentioned

2. Launching 480 HPM bombs in a single wave (two squadrons of Ankriats with each bomber launching twenty Valhalla Air Supression Missiles armed with HPM bombs) <- Where did the 50 IG CM rule go?

3. Using physically impossible anti-submarine missiles created out of nowhere and which does not have anything resembling it in RL, with ranges which goes far beyond any ASROCs in existence. <- Triyun tried to save this crap saying that people can have any ammunition they want, but come on, you have to respect basic physics, otherwise is this some kind of magical fantasy?



Being the generous person that I am, I chose to allow Malatose to happily spam around. I don't see why the GMs would use the actions of the losing side to wipe a war when the other side is fine with all the crap moves being pulled.
[/quote]

You'll note that I also outlined violations from Vektor and if it was a ruling against only you the consequences would have been quite different. A complete wipe is the measure taking when both sides are guilty. As for no side objecting, that really doesn't matter. We have to rule, even when it's not asked.

ICBMs are not covered by the SDI rule, realistic shootdown rates based on real life possibilities apply. You'll note in real life they're still quite bad at shooting down ICBMs and have nowhere near such percentages.

I've also seen Voodoo use numbers on IRC that do allow the ICBMs to reach Grand Papua.

As for the space debris clean-up, the kind of numbers you claimed in that post can't be cleaned up in a reasonable timeframe. Even with what the Lunar Republic can do so claiming they could is by itself a godmod already.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Centurius

[iKrolm]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1331145828' post='2935089']-snip-
[/quote]

Centurius: with all do respect, these examples are nitpicking. At any time during or after the war a GM could have asked for ash to hit more planes or for fewer missiles to be shot down. Every war in CNRP has had similar occurrences, but they have been resolved or looked over by participants without the entire war becoming non-canon.

The Germany-Grand Papua war did not feature a Death Star or a laser-armed fighter jet that instakilled the enemy's airforce or anything else generally seen as grounds for a mass continuity wipe. This then begs the questions: did a participant ask for the war to be wiped? And if not, why did the GM team feel it necessary to wipe [i]this[/i] war?

I understand you are busy Cent, so I am willing to wait for Triyun's full explanation if you prefer.

Edited March 7, 2012 by iKrolm

[Centurius]

[quote name='iKrolm' timestamp='1331148225' post='2935110']
Centurius: with all do respect, these examples are nitpicking. At any time during or after the war a GM could have asked for ash to hit more planes or for fewer missiles to be shot down. Every war in CNRP has had similar occurrences, but they have been resolved or looked over by participants without the entire war becoming non-canon.

The Germany-Grand Papua war did not feature a Death Star or a laser-armed fighter jet that instakilled the enemy's airforce or anything else generally seen as grounds for a mass continuity wipe. This then begs the questions: did a participant ask for the war to be wiped? And if not, why did the GM team feel it necessary to wipe [i]this[/i] war?
[/quote]

Quite simple really, if you let the war pass you establish a precedent for future scenarios in which case it becomes a lot harder to rule. Every time the line gets pushed a bit, eventually it will be pushed beyond repair and that is one thing we want to avoid.