TBRaiders

Well said. I know it took me a while to get over my pixels and my outrage of others wanting to blow them up. Perhaps it took owning every wonder and realizing there wasn't much else to do in this world but blow stuff up, rebuild it, and blow it up again.

[quote name='NoFish' date='14 February 2010 - 01:55 AM' timestamp='1266134152' post='2180580'] Does anyone else see the irony here? [/quote] Only if it pertains to who actually joined the aggressive side of this war, otherwise no I am pretty much clueless.

[quote name='Rey the Great' date='08 February 2010 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1265692118' post='2169884'] Even if the feeling to help is genuinely there, this is poor form by signing on a new treaty during war (if it was cancelled, it's new now) [/quote] Not so much questioning you, but just curious about the general stigma regarding treaty signing during war time. I'd think that would be a great time to find new allies. Some cool alliance on the breaking edge could even "invent" war treaties that only last during a current period of war. The enemy of your enemy is at least a decent temporary ally.

We lost our replacement member so need another water/wheat nation to complete the circle.

[quote name='HellAngel' date='07 February 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1265564323' post='2166986'] Just for the record, many in Gre preferred not taking anything and just calling it a day, but then our "part" of the reps would have just gone to some other alliance and it wouldnt have helped anything. [/quote] Bro, I know most of us didn't want reps. Sure, we had a few Polar haters, but it was a political decision to accept reps vis tech deals so we didn't piss our allies off any further and not because "somebody had to get them."

[quote name='Saber' date='07 February 2010 - 09:09 AM' timestamp='1265555384' post='2166817'] We just did not want to sign on any kind of humiliating/joke terms as we really saw them as demeaning and beneath any alliance. First terms that were delivered to us were such and we just said we'll let others do their thing, the war is won and we'll separate peace. It was not done in a malicious manner. Instead I'd say our intentions were noble (not interfering in Echelon terms). [/quote] I can relate to this. When I was GRE and we beat Polar in the many-named war, I was embarrassed when our coalition wanted reps from them and was somewhat sad that we eventually settled for paid reps via tech deals. I know why we did it and I am guessing you know why we did it too.

The fact that OG has no clue who Filipino Heroes is and the relationship they've had with GRE for so long blows my mind. Make them remember your names FH.

[quote name='Blue Lightning' date='06 February 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1265488669' post='2165053'] If you look in the OP, grub himself acknowledged that he knew about the attack and approved. [edit]By OP, I mean Crymson's post. [edit2] I understand that NSO requested your assistance with FARK but instead you attacked GOD. So you already did that. [/quote] I personally would like to see the original conversation and not the one that took place five minutes before it was posted where it looks like Grub is just sick and tired of the whole conversation and doesn't care anymore.

Fair enough. Truthfully, I haven't see many peripherally involved individuals be critical of NpO (since their re-entry into this war) or of the aggressive side on this front (TOP and Crew). I wasn't saying that NpO's DoW invalidated your point. I really was pointing out the absurdity of it all. You're a smart dude so I certainly enjoy engaging your brain a bit.

Blue Lightning , I don't think you will ever find a personal insult from me posted anywhere, but you will also never see me standing on a soapbox proclaiming my moral compass always points in the right direction either. Either way, are you telling me because some members of MK may have insulted somebody before that I cannot call someone out when I see it? rabonnobar, that was just a fun jab by me, but again I didn't particpate in it and feel no guilt for what others did. I was GRE at the time so had even more allies than that who particpated in that very sad event. Don't think I didn't rage internally at our alliance forum and the Citadel forum about it.

[quote name='Saber' date='04 February 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1265326277' post='2159643'] No but checking on our warchests after you decided to leave TOP, and then posting about them (even though you got it wrong) on the OWF does make you a [b]douchebag. [/b] [/quote] [quote name='mitchh' date='05 February 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1265389559' post='2161620'] My citizens have ran the calculations, albeit slowly, and have come to the conclusion that you should not have your pet monkey post in your stead. [/quote] Half-baked DoW, personal insults, what's next? Declaring war on a neutral alliance, rolling them and then demanding reps? Oh wait, you already scratched that one off the bucket list.

[quote name='Kowalski' date='05 February 2010 - 05:08 AM' timestamp='1265368116' post='2161307'] Growing up as a small boy in MHA it was beaten into me by a loving yet forceful gov that Citadel was a wonder to behold, a true spectacle of skill and power. Upon joining the excellent Umbrella alliance I was fortunate to get an insiders view of this wonderful collection of alliances, full of sensationally talented CN'ers, great minds and downright lovable people. It is a story repeated many times throughout CN over the last two years and many others like me always held Citadel in high regard, and it's place in the politics of Bob is underestimated. Never a truly unified or aggressive force but always a dangerous threat, first attracting (distracting?) the attention of the Continuum as a constant rival and then later looming on the sidelines as SF and C&G dominated the political landscape. Unfortunately it was not to be. Maybe the aims were too high, the words too long, the quest for perfection tantalisingly out of reach. But it was something special, and anyone involved over the years will be saddened by this news and that Citadel as a whole will no longer exist. People may have issues with the individual alliances but as a collective Citadel will be missed and something of it's like never repeated. [/quote] Well said. As a member for the majority of my nation's existance, I will have fond memories of what it once stood for and always wonder what it truly could have accomplished had it reached it's full potential. [quote name='Bob Janova' date='05 February 2010 - 07:15 AM' timestamp='1265375721' post='2161388'] We never did get to fight together; outside influences (TOP to NPO and IRON, OG to NPO, FCC to NpO, Grämlins and Umbrella to MK and Fark) got in the way, and ultimately brought the bloc down. In the end those influences tore Citadel apart, and we could never go the extra step and make Citadel the primary focus in times of crisis. [/quote] I agree with this. [quote name='arentak' date='05 February 2010 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1265389200' post='2161614'] I'm sad to see Citadel dissolve, but considering we were divided on Karma, the TPF Gangbang, and the current war... It really seemed inevitable. [/quote] Don't forget the GPA curbstomp, that most of Citadel seemed against, and the Polar war that didn't sit so well with FCC.

I pasted that from the TOP Dow for you to reference. I find it highly hypocritical that they would take advantage of an advantageous opportunity to attack CnG while accusing CnG of possibly doing the same. The Bob Janova I was an alliance mate with for a year and a half would have too.

I am calling you biased because the only alliances you seem to be calling out are the CnG alliances. Our side of this war is not the aggressors. I am not trying to say that CnG vs TOP and company wasn't eventually going to happen or that both sides didn't want it to happen, but CnG didn't choose it to happen right here. If you continue to argue that somehow it is CnG's fault that this whole thing blew up right here and now, then please let's just agree to disagree and both move on. I think I made that very clear. If you want to support an alliance at war, how about hitting someone they are fighting? TOP and company didn't relieve any war pressure on NpO. All they managed to do was bring in most alliances in the game and turn it into a global war. Some help. Just because every Polar ally didn't jump into the stupid war that had begun, don't think most weren't trying to provide support by getting it to end. Something I expect TOP could have tried to assist with instead of going all cowboy. There wasn't a CnG side at that point. TOP and company created that side by declaring. Had they never joined this war it would have ended. I would also say that TOP and crew, using this opportunity to join a war and "say they are on the Polar side" was merely a sham to try and isolate CnG from Polar and allies who would lean towards Polar over CnG. Now you are just making stuff up. Polar stated their sole purpose for rejoining was to not leave a fallen comrade (NSO) behind. If I was going to speculate, I'd add they were and still are pretty pissed at the amount of crap MK has given them over this entire affair so that didn't hurt in their decision making. But NpO was the ones who put peace on the table and who accepted that peace. Their decision to join, how they exited, where they rejoined...mistake, after mistake, after mistake... Well there we go. That doesn't even agree with everything you've posted in this blog let alone their war own declaration. If you are going to read between the lines on the motivations of CnG, maybe you can try and do the same for TOP.

I would nuke myself if we became the new hegemmony. There is no new hegemony. The old hegemony is just reforming. I really missed the part where they ever moved away from the old hegemony, unless I am supposed to ignore all the Citadel conversations I read and declarations from TOP how they were not a part of Karma and how unhappy they were to be fighting for that side. Regardless, this world is always better when there are two strong sides so I am actually looking forward to how things shape up again.

This is the part that baffles me. Just because TOP mentioned they were joining a war to support NpO doesn't mean they were really joining a war to support NpO. Nobody they attacked was involved in that war and two of the people they attacked were MDP partners of NpO. MK was working behind the scene to get peace in this war the whole time, not just when we heard TOP and crew were going to use this opportunity to create a partially false DoW and attack. This is showing your bias 100%. Grub should have never made flippant comments to TOP leadership about attacking his MDP partners and was one of several mistakes he's made during these evolving conflicts. Heck, if this is one war then NpO just re-entered the same conflict citing defensive obligations to NSO in an agressive war NpO started and NSO's only reason for being in the war was when they came to NpO's defense. Yes, I am discounting Ivan's grandstanding counter-declaration. STA is our treaty partner as well, so I have no idea how it could be a low move when we expected both NpO and STA to come to our defense. NpO remaining out of the war was certainly the second option considered, but they are the ones who chose to go to the other side. You choose to not hold NpO accountable because you feel like TOP's DoW somehow supported the NpO war efforts. STA did the correct thing honoring their treaty, just as every other alliance who honored their treaty and came to our defense.

Good luck FCC. Hope you get it resolved quickly. [quote name='Hyperion321' date='04 February 2010 - 01:55 AM' timestamp='1265270156' post='2158538'] Why are you launching wars with a real CB? can't you see the rest of the world is well beyond that phase? [/quote] Awesome post.

I decided not to clutter up the VE DoW or just about every other DoW thread by replying to a lot of your posts. You've really shown a bias against MK in your posts recently and are not holding anyone else accountable. Shame on you. You used to call it like it was regardless of like or dislike. Isn't it almost always someone else's war for 95% of the participants? In this case though, I'd like to know whose war it is? I know somehow you are going to say CnG's and probably actually believe it, so with a strong does of sarcasm I'd like to apologize for us declaring on non-combatants to escalate this entire conflict. We wouldn't have done it but we knew they wanted to hit us eventually and it was a great opportunity for us to attack now with some of their allies already engaged and stretch the truth a bit in our DoW to gain some support from others. Divide and conquer. Seriously, it's almost shaped up to be like Karma 2.0 with TOP on the side they wanted to support the first time around.

I don't think I've ever been in an alliance that has liked GGA very much. While I won't wish GGA success against MHA or anyone I consider friends, I would like to see them lose the negative rep from their past and be judged on the present. Honorable move coming to the aid of allies.

[quote name='TheListener' date='02 February 2010 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1265176297' post='2155484'] o/ STA A truly tough Decision to make, and an understandable outcome, I will always hold STA in high regards. [/quote] I just wanted to echo this comment and add that it is an honor to battle alongside you.

lol Didn't we already have this discussion on another forum? In case you missed that post here is basically what I said. TOP saw a chance where several of our allies were tied up and even committed to a different side of a war, and tried to use that to their advantage. It's laughable that they would make any decision, ever, to support NpO. I was a member of Citadel for a long time and know there is no love lost there. It's laughable that they support a cause to fight against \m/ who attacked an alliance (tech raided) with no CB, yet they attack an entire bloc in the same manner. It's laughable who they chose to attack to "support" Polar in their war efforts. Everything about TOP's decision makes me question if they use a magic 8-ball for all important decisions. This will go down as one of the worst blunders in the history of planet bob.

I will always remember the good times in Grämlins quite fondly. Wish it could have lasted until the end of planet Bob.

Thanks for breaking it down, Bob.

We lost our water/wheat guy to inactivity. If you have those two resources and want to join our trade ring and trade with all five current members of our trade ring, hit me up in game and I will send you a link to the other four nations. Must be aqua and plan on having great trades for a long time.