DragonsPhyre

[quote name='Bloodjewel' timestamp='1285103349' post='2460277'] I've never understood why nukes are considered a bad thing. Even in raids, they are nothing more than glorified cruise missiles. [/quote] It raises the Global Radiation Level, lowering income and population everywhere. No more mutated calfs, please. O_o I disagree with the concept and reasoning behind allowing tech or land raiding and, really, would personally like nothing better than to see the practice cease. However, for a variety of reasons, I'm not really in favor of going forth and eradicating them myself so I'll stick with being content with the status quo as long as the raiding nation accepts the consequences of its aggressive actions. This means they don't whine about being nuked (I still laugh incredulously at the incident where raiders (GOD, I believe?) requested sanctions on a raiding target that nuked, calling it a rogue) and won't complain overmuch when they inevitably mess with the wrong target.

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1284834926' post='2457337']Also DP, that is a sexy avatar.[/quote] Thank you! All credit goes to wootmeister. I just told him what I wanted for an avatar and he delivered. Also, its random file name is "CKROX". I couldn't resist it once I saw that. Thanks for the support.

[center][img]http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae214/GATO_MoDA/Headers/bannerannoun.png[/img][/center] Esteemed leaders and compatriots, Our protectorate, Orbital Drop Shock Troopers (ODST), have decided to merge into us. The Global Alliance and Treaty Organization welcomes them with open arms, and I'm sure they will be a valuable part of the alliance. Needless to say, the alliance affiliation "Orbital Drop Shock Troopers" remains under our protection until the merger is complete. Thank you, DragonsPhyre Minister of Foreign Affairs on behalf of Global Alliance and Treaty Organization p.s. - I used the header this time. I don't like it much personally. I'll try to get a better one for our next announcement.

[quote name='Jens of the desert' timestamp='1284664009' post='2455938'] Please don't try to make a joke again. [/quote] You wound me, sir. I think I'll be fine, though.

[quote name='xoindotnler' timestamp='1284663436' post='2455930'] Seen the error, no way in hell you could have screwed up the cache files. [/quote] Clearly, his power extends far beyond what you believe it does. The only recourse for GOONS is immediate surrender.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284490370' post='2453787'] Would this include protection from sanctions? (Could a trade partner feel safe that if they do get sanctioned, you'll remove it) [/quote] As sanctions are typically a reaction to someone doing something stupid, like going rogue on an alliance with nuclear weapons, protection wouldn't apply in most cases. The only times I can see us getting involved with sanctions is if a senator went rogue and started sanctioning everyone, but ... yeah. So, no, you can't join the Brown Trade Partner AA and expect the GATO senator to remove your sanction, Methrage.

[quote name='BamaBuc' timestamp='1284491585' post='2453806'] As to the requirements to be on those AAs, people in this thread have made it sound like there's no admissions process for either, you're just protected unless you do something dumb. Not positive if that's the case though. [/quote] That's pretty much it. Just switch your AA and team color and you're in.

What's TL;DR about it? The treaty's only, like, six sentences.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1284486357' post='2453736'] Perhaps because it really smells like a Brown#5. And I don't like to be infringed on my sovereignty. It worked with FAN and NPO because they had the political cloud to do so. NSO (lol) and GATO, not so much. I don't really feel like hearing the anti-raiding propaganda again. So I just wish you guys good luck with enforcing this. [/quote] A Brown#5 would be us protecting all of Brown, regardless of alliance affiliation. This creates a specific AA with some rules to it for members of the AA to enjoy protection. In any case, the intent of the treaty is not to spit in the eyes of tech raider alliances, but to foster a friendlier environment for Brown nations to grow peacefully, meaning more trades and more stable trades.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1284484677' post='2453715'] It was focused on the Brown thingy. I didn't read the other topic. RIA trade partners I do accept as a protectorate. [/quote] I'm a little confused here. They're the same thing, but on different colors and administrated by different alliances. What makes the Brown one any less "valid" than the RIA one?

[quote name='DeadAnimal' timestamp='1284479605' post='2453636'] FnKa was not approached, not that we would be in any functional position to offer protection to newer nations. Ah, the burden of nukes. [/quote] We can talk about this later today then. The first moves in making this were before I was in office, so I'm not fully aware of who was and wasn't approached. My apologies for the oversight and that also applies to any others we missed.

[quote name='benjaminperdomo' timestamp='1284478988' post='2453617'] We are hiding the official letterhead to Dragonsphere. True story. [/quote] The official letterhead we use would take up half the post space in this instance. I think I'm justified in omitting it!

[quote name='ProdigyNL' timestamp='1284478608' post='2453610'] Awesome to see such a thing, im only sad to see that not more alliances signed/where invited to sign this document. [/quote] I'll double check it personally when I have some time later, but I believe the other alliances we talked to about it weren't really interested in it. [quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1284478687' post='2453611'] interesting to say the least. Nice concept but doomed to fail IMO. [/quote] I think it will work out well enough myself. We will have to see how it goes. Not all the benefits and drawbacks are going to be immediately apparent. If it fails, then at least we have tried it and seen it for ourselves. If it works like I believe it will, then Brown will be a more vibrant trading environment and all Brown residents can reap the benefits. This is why it's a cooperative effort.

We are protecting The United Front (TUF) alliance affiliation for twenty (20) days.

In the interest of promoting the brown team to new members who do not seek a formal alliance at this time, GATO and NSO have come together to protect the alliance affiliation Brown Trade Partner from unprovoked attacks. We hope that we can grow the brown trade sphere, which has been historically weak for trading, by giving unaligned nations a home where they can grow. We hope this mutually beneficial partnership can help foster new growth for our home in the brown sphere making trading off the cuff easier for all who call the sphere home. Any alliance may recruit from this alliance as well as engage in tech dealing with their nations. We only ask that you screen shot proof of the tech transaction so if any problems arise, we can revoke protection if need be. Nations must be on the brown team and have the AA Brown Trade Partner to receive protection. If they want to declare aggressive wars on their own, that's fine, but they will deal with the consequences on their own. If you believe a nation is using this AA to escape legitimate punishment, just show us cause to revoke their protection and we'll be happy to oblige. The full text of the treaty follows: [quote][u][b][color="#A0522D"][size="5"][center]Brown Trade Partner Protection Accord[/center][/size][/color][/b][/u] [b]Preamble[/b] In an effort to preserve Brown Team economic trade and to grow the Brown trading sphere the undersigned alliances agree to protect the alliance affiliation "Brown Trade Partner" from unprovoked attacks. [b]Article I: Brown Trade Partner Membership[/b] To receive the benefit of protection afforded through this accord nations must be on the Brown Team trading sphere and wear the alliance affiliation Brown Trade Partner. Any nation that fails to meet both conditions of this article will forfeit protection. [b]Article II: Protection[/b] All nations who meet both conditions of Article I will be protected from unprovoked attacks. Signatory alliances will provide diplomatic and if necessary military support. Military means will only be used when all diplomatic efforts have been exhausted. A Brown Trade Partner nation that engages in aggressive action will forfeit protection. [b]Article III: Miscellaneous Provisions[/b] All nations flying the Brown Trade Partner alliance affiliation are free to be recruited by, trade with, and engage in any economic dealings with any nation or alliance. [b]Article IV: Protector Alliances[/b] By signing this accord all undersigned alliances agree to protect the Brown Trade Partner alliance affiliation from unprovoked attacks as outlined in this treaty. Any alliance may sign or leave this accord by informing the other signatories of this accord of their intent to do so. Signed, Laserwolf, Assembly Chairman DragonsPhyre, Minister of Foreign Affairs cr24, Minister of Domestic Affairs Kubla Khan, Minister of Finance Mightyspoon, Minister of Defense Heggo, Sovereign of the Sith Lennox, Dark Lord Jrenster, Sith Lord Heft, Sith Lord Doppelganger, Sith Lord Rebel Virginia, Sith Lord[/quote]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1284084057' post='2448321'] It seems to me that a democratic alliance who has [i]never[/i] been known as the original WAE would be a better example than one who was and then got better. [/quote] The WAE thing was propaganda spread from the NPO at that time. I'm sure those responsible are gratified to see that it's still effective even nowadays.

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1284082711' post='2448299'] I'm pretty sure GATO should never be used as an example to say that [i]anything[/i] is a good idea. [/quote] Sure, we've made mistakes. I don't think you will find anyone that denies that. We've bounced back every time, though, which is truer to my point. Your attempt at a cheap shot is noted, though. Have a good day.

The Global Alliance and Treaty Organization has been democratic since its inception years ago. We've gone through a couple changes to streamline things, but we're still strong democratic in nature and I believe our continued successes even after getting beaten to a pulp show that a democratic alliance can and does work.

There's precious few alliances that are truly worthy of the notion of being a friend even unto death, and the absence of one of them on this poll does them a grave disservice. The Imperial Assault Alliance fought for the Global Alliance until the point came for them to disband, forever earning a lasting admiration from us. I could ask for no better group of friends and even now, I am humbled by the memory. The Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations and United Sovereign Nations are also alliances worthy of inclusion, as they chose to honor their treaties to enter the same war, despite facing overwhelming odds and certain defeat. The CSN was honoring the cancellation clause at the time and the USN came in on behalf of CSN. Both are, as IAA, true to their word and worth every ounce of respect I hold for that.

I was faintly hoping ICAN would be able to get its stuff together with Emp gone. I'm sad to see that wasn't possible in the end, apparently. Good luck to those formerly in the International Coalition of Armed Nations. May you find safe shelter and good friends in your new alliances.

[quote name='MagicalTrevor' timestamp='1283707536' post='2442762'] I feel safe in the knowledge that i know far more on this than yourself, based off being close friends with GOONS and in STA, i get both sides of the story and this time GOONS weren't being overly aggresive as you're claiming. Just because a thread on here states something doesn't necesarrily make it so. The "single rogue incident" was somebody trying to incite a war, the "wars involving entire alliances" were through treaties and therefore battles which had a shred of honour and decency. There is a major difference between somebody being an idiot purely because they can and somebody fighting for a friend. [/quote] You're absolutely correct. All I can go in is the publicly available information in this thread. Considering the amount of information and what makes it up, I feel pretty confident in stating my opinion here. Regardless of what's happening behind the scenes, the public aspect of those discussions shape perceptions about the incident. The "single rogue incident" is someone in an alliance aiding someone at war with another alliance. GOONS started out with wanting to place Corinan on their EoG list, force him to pay 90mil, and decommission his FAC wonder. The damages, politically and materially, are far higher in alliance-wide wars, yet reparations are typically much lower (exempting, of course, the wars involving many alliances or very large alliances), even for the alliance that starts the war in the first place. I have no problem with GOONS wanting some payment to offset the increased damages from aiding Methrage. The only problem I have with this entire situation is the ridiculous amount of reparations.

[quote name='MagicalTrevor' timestamp='1283706711' post='2442736'] Pre-Karma NSO as a whole would have been held accountable. This time one member who purposely tried to incite a war has been seen as the idiot he is and is paying the price for it. GOONS have every right to completly trash his nation for far more than 90mil worth of damages, but have instead chosen to allow him to stay in NSO and to keep his nation as it is. I normally find GOONS are too strong armed on these situations, but they've handled this very very well and repsectfully, my hat goes off to Sardonic Beef & Biatz Corinan, please leave NSO, you're a disgrace, even to them. [/quote] NSO as a whole was being held accountable. The tone of the last couple pages establishes that pretty clearly. Feel free to spin it off as GOONS being merciful, but the fact of the matter is that they've demanded (and are receiving) more money in reparations from a single rogue incident than was involved in recent wars that involved entire alliances.

I'm disappointed in this whole situation. 90 millions in "reparations" is far too much to be paying for a single 3mil aid. I thought the whole KARMA war thing was supposed to usher in a new era of non-extortionate reparations requests. So I guess as disappointed as I am in seeing a NSO member aiding a rogue, I'm even more disappointed in seeing GOONS demand such high reparations and getting away with it in this instance.

[quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1283665867' post='2442292'] I was unaware GATO had honor. [/quote] Well, see, that's what we're here for. Someone's gotta educate the masses somehow. Aren't you happy that you've learned something today?

A healthy amount of fear of getting rolled is good in that it means alliances are aware of consequences to their actions. If we all went around with no fear of the consequences of our actions, it would be pretty boring.