Canik

I remember Kommander, heh. He started the Maroon War by nuking Kaiser Martens. Remember Soviet Sindorin too, ZIed him twice. President: Freelancer Foreign Affairs: Xiph Internal Affairs: Soviet Sindorin Finance: Canik Defense: Mia This would end well.

Man, every post your make now days dealing with politics, I'm like, "I can't believe I used to respect this guy". You clearly need to join CDT for a while and get to know us and see what is really going on. As for SLCB, 3 mil per nation can't be that far off from the actual damage done. I don't know if anyone has checked lately, but Infra is expensive, and can be destroyed really fast. Are you really so cheap that you can't afford 3 mil per nation? Is that really the issue you're claiming here? That you want to keep the member and 3 mil per nation attacked is too much for you to pay? You know, it's funny, because when I said something publicly about FAN taking part in extortion of 6 million from FEAR, some of the same people complaining now laughed and said, "You're complaining about 6 million? C'mon.." Hopefully people will see CDT's consistent honor and lack of aggression, and recognize the others who are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

I like how people try to turn it around so it's the governments infringing on the rights of their members. You could say we're trying to infringe on foreign alliances right to mass message other alliances.

Good times. We were pwning Ephie and Statesman too.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm looking forward to seeing ADI grow and prosper, and I have no doubt under your leadership it will. o/ ADI o/ FEAR

Only The Phoenix Federation is allowed to emerge from ashes. It's kinda their thing, being a federation of phoenixes.

Well, I still wub you Kroknia, but I fundamentally disagree with you. I think if the people's representation decides to sign a treaty with someone else rallying their votes, or anything of the sort, that it's extremely disrespectful for other alliances to just ignore that and mass message them anyway, trying to convince them to vote for someone else.

Go join LSF or GPA then. Because apparently you think fairly normal government activities are Totalitarian. There are plenty of people who agree with me. They just aren't moronic enough to get involved with this crapfest. I am, apparently. Anyway, I didn't say Stickmen actually impersonated Invicta. I said it was misleading, it's just as close as you can get to impersonation without actually doing it. I tell ya, you have some beautiful tight-rope walkers.

Watch, a complaint can also be a question. For example, "Why is it so painful to read what you write?" See how I complain, yet it's still in the form of a question. Please point to where I said that you said that? You sir, are the one who cannot read. Yeah yeah, perfectly innocent. Right. We buy that. Really. Maybe, or maybe they just suck at recruiting. Or maybe they don't have the capability to bring young nations into power. /me shrugs I'll give you hint, have them sell tech. Lawlz, you post 2 screenshots and that's proof that most nations receive lots of political messages? Which, I don't even consider these political, they're economical. I know we disagree on this, but a trade circle message is not the same. Jan, listen close.. you're just one nation. You're not every nation. Oh, and why is it not the same, because you have permission from every alliance to send trade circle messages. First of all, I admitted I exaggerated a bit, so way to throw it in my face again. How juvenile. If you take your line of thinking farther that is where it ends up. Actually, I'm gonna take my opinion over yours. Considering I'm actually pretty knowledgeable in the field, and can spell philosophy.

Good for you, I'm glad there are so many experienced rulers on here that really know what they're talking about. Of course if a nation has an issue, it's open for discussion. However, if their argument fails, then they must make a choice. Stay or leave. In a totalitarian state, they wouldn't have that choice. If they are choosing to stay, then obviously they don't disagree strongly with their alliance's policies. If you are in an alliance, you are accepting and supporting your government, which represents the people. EDIT: And when another alliance ignores the pleas of the people's representation, when they disrespect that government, they are doing the same to the people of that alliance.

Is that a complaint? You were reaching in your claim that I was implying that Purple nations can not read. You know, I'm starting to think you're not trying to spin this stuff, you just have a hard time comprehending and really believe what you're saying. Amazing. Humans are so intriguing. More like an invitation for war. Apparently they don't have time to mass message for recruitment, either that or they're just not very good at it. Considering how small the Stickmen alliances are. You've shown proof that most nations receive political messages from foreign alliances? Where? Oh, by your own personal testimony and experience? Which, even then you didn't provide screenshots so we are purely taking your word for it. That's hardly proof. Also, my proof is there, it's in your inbox. Or rather, it isn't in your inbox. You never claimed to receive more messages later you do? That doesn't make sense. Anyway, you know damn well people aren't receiving messages like these all the time. You said, " It's not too hard to ignore one more message. ", implying that if it were hard work to ignore a message, it would be more serious. Apparently amount of work does have something to do with something since you fit it in there. Following your line of logic, if you can call it that, I pointed out it would take even less work to simply not send those messages to begin with. Follow? Aww, thank you. You have no idea how much that means to me. Except one much, much more so. Oh yeah, I forgot people always say exactly what they mean. It was wrong of me to assume you followed the 'survival of the fittest' philosophy. Which would mean death to weak alliances, and they deserve it, because they're weak. Seriously, I did go overboard a bit there. However, it's not far from your line of thinking.

If you forced that nation to stay, yes. Unfortunately for that argument, if they stay it means they support their alliance's policies, if they don't like them they can leave.

Whoa, calm down buddy. That's a ridiculous amount of quotes, and your typos are threatening the legibility of your writing. And no, I did not in any way imply that. You're really reaching for that one. I see you're implying that the Purple nations message could check the nation the message sender was from, but as I said, there are new nations who may make the mistake, and even a veteran nation may be fooled and once they vote for that cycle, they can't take it back. I like how you try to make it out to be Purple's fault for not preparing for this type of warfare and not Stickmen's for sending the messages. If Stickmen just stated who they were, it would eliminate any possible confusion, but they wouldn't want that now would they? Either that, or like I said they're lazy/disorganized. ... Riiight. I'm not going to argue against this, because the fact that people aren't receiving political messages from other alliances speaks louder than words. You can't trick people into thinking they get more messages like these than they actually do.. well, actually, I don't know.. people are stupid, but yeah. It's even less hard to not send those messages to begin with. Then you either have very valuable resources, or are one of the luckiest nations on Planet Bob. I have Iron & Uranium, and I'm not bombarded with trade/TC offers. I get maybe one every other month, and my current trades aren't that great. I'd be a great prospect to invite to a circle. Okay, well you go make the case that a Senate Seat is just as important as everyone having trades. In the meantime, the status quo is to not sanction unless absolutely necessary because of the importance of trades. That's right, death to weak alliances! Let's hear it everyone! Death! Death! Death!

And so does mine. Only mine is better, because Purple Alliances aren't causing any problems for anyone else by not keeping it's members constantly informed on the entirety of their government. Also, until now alliances mass messaging other alliances was almost unheard of, except in guerrilla warfare. So why would they worry about it so? Then you must be in the process of finding a trade circle. Trades are so essential, it's a whole different story. Yeah... any alliance that recruits is gonna have new members. Go figure.

1) But I do question your honesty, which is one reason this discussion will be ending very shortly. Another being I can't sit here and argue all day. 2) Wait, what? You're saying you don't see where rolling over could come into play because it's too emotive given the actuality (of the situation I presume), yet you're criticizing us for being emotional. It sounds like you're trying to have it both ways, which is exactly what I was talking about, ironically. 3) Ah, I see. Well, in that case I should thank you for being unbiased in that respect. That was most likely their motivation, I imagine, and not the most honorable one if I don't say so myself. Btw, you imagine a lot. Try reality.

I guess Stickmen were too lazy and disorganized to either contact these alliances first, or put who they were in their message. I've been here for over 3 years, you do not receive THAT many messages outside your alliance and they certainly are not political as this is. Obviously you can message a friend just to talk, or message someone about trades, tech, we all know the acceptable things. How are they supposed to learn being ignorant with no common sense? Also, I like how that's the type of voter you hope to attract. The young, new nations who may not know better. Yeah, you could claim that, except you're wrong because I'm right.

That's some nice rationalization thar, AirMe. I do agree that it should have been handled in private channels. The outrage is being blown out of proportion, and escalated, mainly due to the fact that The Stickmen and sympathizers act completely dumbfounded that Purple and her allies may be upset at all. You guys argued your point, we respond in kind, and suddenly we're "wildly emotional"... /me sighs

They were misleading by not identifying themselves. The messages could easily be mistaken as government messages. I can see where Invicta considers it impersonating government. They did so without the consent of the alliances. Even if a government takes steps to organize their votes, such as mass msging their own members, it's still frustrating to have someone possibly disrupt that unity and work. You could say the same thing about someone mass msging an alliance with 'advice' to keep no warchest at all. It's just harmless, friendly advice right? No threats, no extortion, no demands, just polite, friendly advice. Also, one could argue just about anything. Do not underestimate the ability for a human to rationalize anything to fit his preference.

Polite? Really? I'm extremely disappointed in you, AirMe. Well, whatever. Let the flood gates open, citizens of Planet Bob. This is a great new era of morality indeed.

I don't believe Purple has complained about them competing for the Senate Seat, only that they mass messaged their members. They are free to compete. Also, this is more of "it's bad, but it's not that bad", "People have done worse, so this is okay", "It's not too bad, so it's not worth being the least bit upset over".

You would think unaligned nations would be more likely to vote for you than a nation in another alliance. It won't be long and tedious because I'm sure very few alliances would agree to it. I'm starting to think you're trying to downplay the issue and have mistaken standing up for what you believe is right for immaturity. Please, don't try to play it off like it's not at least somewhat insulting and rude. At the very least. At least be honest, like NSO. Anyway, what do you think the agenda-driven posters of these forums would say if Purple just rolled over like punks? This is called propaganda. No matter what they do, the biased will rationalize and/or fabricate fault. Well, in that case, I guess we're wildly emotional. It should be no surprise, most alliances, especially up to this point in CN's history, would be upset as well. Only normally it would have been dealt with in purely private channels. So, this defense is that upsetting a rival when it might help for a bid at a Senate Seat is just to good an opportunity to pass up... and therefore right? And that because Valhalla may not have cared, it's okay. Pfft, I know alliances that wouldn't even enter diplomatic discussions, especially if they had the upper hand. You'd just wake up one day to a DoW for infractions smaller than this.

How is it wildly emotional? First of all, it is insulting. Secondly, I didn't realize debating without flaming, cursing, etc, etc, was being wildly emotional. The closest to wildly emotional this is, is Avalon posting it in public. If it's such a small issue, was doesn't Stickmen just drop it? Why persist? It takes two to tango. Um, Search Alliance + Team. It's right there on the drop bar. Put in None Purple. If any purple alliances agree to let you send mass message their members, type in their name + purple. How else may I educate you today?

I, for one, think it makes perfect sense for them to be rather upset at their alliances being mass messaged.

Years ago when TOOL first formed. They sold tech like nobodies business though, and now have over 30k avg.

I believe if Stickmen simply don't send those messages to aligned nations there would be no issue. If they take the Senate seat without messaging aligned nations, I would support their right to be there. I am not the leader of a Purple Team alliance, but I know many of them and they are completely reasonable. EDIT: And I know I would not want people messaging FEAR to vote for someone other than Turetel. Our members know who to vote for, but I have better things to do than to battle for the unity of my alliance's votes.